Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware


@FITIMS wrote:

@arnym21

I am not expecting e Gigabit speed over WIFI, I knew that much. Not sure if you read in my previous posts and my only concern is before i switched my plan, the WIFI was super fast for me and consistent. As soon as I changed the modem/plan as an upgrade, I am getting worse internet than before. Nothing else has changed in my home/walls/neighbours... Just the plan changed and Hardware... If it was a little better than before I wouldnt of complained, but its worse and paying for higher speed.

 

@soupy
1. Nobody said wireless will ever be faster than wired. Common sense.

2. I will speak for myself and 75% of the population. Only the older generation that were born earlier than 1980 will still keep a wired connection...the new generation. Dont even know what wires are anymore lol... so the future will be wireless for home use.

3. I am willing to spend for better equipment if I know what will work and do the trick. Any suggestions?

 

@BS
Great points and I agree as well with you but as I mentioned to @soupy majority homes will be completely wireless. Offices/Corporations always will remain wired, but who cares for them, at work I dont care if I am wired or wireless... at home i do because I'm not using the internet from the same spot...

 

Anyway I think we are losing the initial idea as to why I was frustrated in the first place... How can a new plan with a new and latest modem/router be worse than before (in terms of WIFI).

 


All of these posts are describing exactly how I feel. This entire process has been an exercise in futility.

The only thing I have gained is the knowledge that Rogers knows that the hardware is suspect at best and enjoys collecting revenue while using it's customers a test subjects in order to prematurely roll out this newer technology. Over promissing and under delivering (again).

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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 7

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware

is it worth upgrading to the CODA-4582 from the CGMN-3552.

 

Would it improve my speed or my ping at all or should I stick with the CGMN

Network Architect
Network Architect
Posts: 611

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware


@ggparts wrote:

There has to be a better and a simple solution for this? That's why we PAY what we pay to rogers to make things easier for us and bring the speed we pay for. We shouldn't have to climb a mountain to get what we pay for...

 

What you said. 100%


@ggparts,

 

I'd like to look into your issue a little bit more but I don't have your MAC address. My first suggestion is for you to join the Firmware Trial program by sending a private message to @CommunityHelps including your modem MAC address and serial number. You will benefit from the latest firmware and I'll be able to assist you further.

 

I did however notice that you invested in a 3rd party router and it helped with your problem. The firmware 2.0.10.33T3 is far better than 2.0.10.28T2 likely running on your modem but I'll leave it up to you at this point.

 


@arnym21 wrote:

To coupe with all kind of loads at once, Hitron put generic CPU in, and got latency jitter issues. Do you want them to multiply? That's why people suggest to separate WiFi CPU load from modem signal high speed conversions by using specialized equipment such as user routers.


One small technical clarification. The CPU in the Hitron modem is not a "generic" CPU, it's actually a combination of an Intel ATOM and Intel ARM CPUs. The ARM part handles the cable modem aspect while the ATOM handles the gateway function. As for the WiFi, it is for the most part offloaded to a Qualcomm Atheros chipset. There is also a dedicated Intel Gigabit switch in the modem.

 


@arnym21 wrote:

On top of WiFi signal loss, Gigabit speed is simply NOT enabled in CODA, despite specs claim it can be. Hence, even in direct proximity to the source reception with such speed is not possible for a reason never explained to Rogers subscribers, despite they pay full price for modem rental based on its specs. I think RogersDave still needs to answer why exactly Gigabit WiFi speed is not enabled in CODA, and when & whether it ever will be?


 I'm getting difficult questions today but I can take it 🙂  Your post mention that "Gigabit speed" and then "Gigabit WiFi speed" is not enabled in the CODA. I don't think there is any official claim of Gigabit WiFi as this is very hard to achieve for anybody with any hardware. In residential settings, there is simply too much interference and attenuation.

 

What I can tell you however is that up to about 15 dB of attenuation, the CODA modem operating at 80 MHz on 5G upper band (channels 149-153-157-161) will give you about 900 Mbps over WiFi. For that you also need a client capable of 4x4 MIMO.

 

On Ethernet, the maximum speed you will get out of a single port is about 950 Mbps. This is because although the port is rated for Gigabit, Ethernet overhead will reduce your speed slightly.

 

Therefore, the only way to break the Gigabit barrier (the Gigabit service is actually provisioned at more than a Gigabit) is to use 2 clients and perform a test simultaneously then add the results. It can be 2 wired clients or 1 wired and 1 WiFi (provided the WiFi client is 4x4 and in good radio conditions).

 

--Dave

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 78

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware

Thanks Dave,

 

A lot of tech details, very useful input as always. Smiley Happy So you're saying with latest FW CODA can reach 900 Mbps over WiFi 5G band right now? That's great! Could you give some improvement suggestions to folks who experience drops in equipment IP registration, and what some claim is much lower actual WiFi speeds compare to yours above? I can assume, most of drawbacks are due to factors not related to CODA, but how folks can improve their WiFi experience? Also, what distances would you consider optimal for WiFi in this case, and where the modem should be located for best WiFi reception around the house? What 3rd party WiFi equipment brands & models would you suggest to use or consider the most compatible with CODA, or its current FW? 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 41

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware


RogersDave wrote:

One small technical clarification. The CPU in the Hitron modem is not a "generic" CPU, it's actually a combination of an Intel ATOM and Intel ARM CPUs. The ARM part handles the cable modem aspect while the ATOM handles the gateway function. As for the WiFi, it is for the most part offloaded to a Qualcomm Atheros chipset. There is also a dedicated Intel Gigabit switch in the modem.


Fascinating.  I understood that Intel stopped making ARM processors a long time ago.  They acquired DEC's StrongARM division as part of the settlement of a law suit in 1997.  They renamed the line Xscale in 2000. They sold that business to Marvell in 2006.  They retained several lines that included ARM SoCs but they were phasing them out.

 

Is the Hitron using old parts?  The FCC filing has a lot fewer details than I would expect.  https://fccid.io/2AHKM-CODA4782

Network Architect
Network Architect
Posts: 611

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware


@arnym21 wrote:

Thanks Dave,

 

A lot of tech details, very useful input as always. Smiley Happy So you're saying with latest FW CODA can reach 900 Mbps over WiFi 5G band right now? That's great! Could you give some improvement suggestions to folks who experience drops in equipment IP registration, and what some claim is much lower actual WiFi speeds compare to yours above? I can assume, most of drawbacks are due to factors not related to CODA, but how folks can improve their WiFi experience? Also, what distances would you consider optimal for WiFi in this case, and where the modem should be located for best WiFi reception around the house? What 3rd party WiFi equipment brands & models would you suggest to use or consider the most compatible with CODA, or its current FW? 


It is very difficult for me to provide a single response that fits every case. On the client side, if you want to reach peak speeds, you need a 4x4 client. Also, the most common limitation that I've seen is the CPU and the OS.

 

I run into this constantly, I haven't seen many computers able to reach top speed other than Macbook Pros because they have a good NIC, an OS that is optimized for network connection and a CPU that doesn't drag the speed down.

 

That has to be coupled with careful selection of WiFi channel and interference management. In a condo where everybody is competing on limited ressources, the noise floor is higher which leads to lower speeds.

 

The 5 GHz WiFi band was great as it introduced many more channels than the 2.4 GHz band and significantly helped with congestion. As standards evolved and customers started using 40 MHz and then 80 MHz channel width, we are back at square one with only 2 non-overlapping 5 GHz channel at 80 MHz (if I exclude the DFS band).

 

This is unfortunately the nature of WiFi and the only way out is to distribute WiFi with multiple transmitters (mesh network) each running at much lower power level (so they don't interfere with each other) and that is how we build high density WiFi systems.

 

--Dave

Network Architect
Network Architect
Posts: 611

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware


@HughR wrote:

Fascinating.  I understood that Intel stopped making ARM processors a long time ago.  They acquired DEC's StrongARM division as part of the settlement of a law suit in 1997.  They renamed the line Xscale in 2000. They sold that business to Marvell in 2006.  They retained several lines that included ARM SoCs but they were phasing them out.

 

Is the Hitron using old parts?  The FCC filing has a lot fewer details than I would expect.  https://fccid.io/2AHKM-CODA4782


Let me stand corrected. The ARM and ATOM are both integrated as part of a single chip, the Puma 7 SoC.

 

I'm not sure the history here but I suspect that the ARM component comes from the Puma 5 when it was owned by Texas Instrument.

 

There is really not a lot of public information from Intel on the architecture of the Puma family. This is all restricted to integrators (modem manufacturers) and the public and even operators don't have access to it. I did however find the following document which gives an idea of the architecture:

 

https://networkbuilders.intel.com/docs/Cable-Residential-Gateway-Solution-for-Converged-Networks.pdf

 

So to answer your question, no Hitron doesn't use old parts. They use what Intel prescribes in its reference design. There is some flexibility on some of the peripheral components (memory, interfaces, WiFi) but the core is strictly Intel.

 

--Dave

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 43

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware

So why is my Netgear R7800 so much more performant and stable than the CODA-4582? The CODA has a higher clock frequency, twice the RAM. Exact same 5 GHz chipset.  By specification and by feature list, the CODA is equal to or rivals everything in my current router. The R7800 shines even further when you put LEDE on it and start running modern Linux/drivers/etc.

 

The CPU in both of these devices should be capable of shoveling gigabit WAN/NAT with SQM and if I am not mistaken, the Qualcomm chipset for WiFi has hardware assisted crypto. I find the idea that anybody should need an additional networking device - except maybe a larger switch - to be a bit hard to believe. 

 

Why do I need a $300 router that literally just has the exact same chips/chipsets/modules/whatever -- Is this thing just saddled down with garbage firmware?

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,111

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware

Simple answer, some or most of the features that the 4582 wifi chipset can support are probably disabled.  Beamforming is disabled in the modem, don't know about MU-MIMO.  End result, your router can beat the 4582 even though on paper the modem appears to have equal or better wifi specs.  The modem ends up operating as nothing more than a run of the mill wifi access point.  The only person here who can tell you exactly what wifi features are enabled and disabled is @RogersDave.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 43

Re: Rogers Hitron CODA-4582 Hardware

This is fair on the Wi-Fi side, though I don't care so much about that. I mean even from a wired-router standpoint it seems inferior and unstable.