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CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

RogersDave
Retired Support
Retired Support

*** This post was last edited May 2, 2017 ***

 

Good morning Community,

 

As I mentioned in a post two days ago, we have received the next firmware 2.0.10.20 from Hitron. We are currently running initial testing on this version and will push it out to participants in the firmware trial program as soon as it passes initial testing.

 

However, while running these tests, we discovered abnormal behavior with ICMP and are awaiting feedback from Hitron today to asses how this will be addressed. As soon as I this is confirmed, I’ll update the change log with the correct version information and start pushing it out.

 

In parallel, we are still working on the following high priority items. In some cases below, I requested affected customers to reach out to me via private message. If you do so, please include your modem MAC address in the subject line (even if we exchange messages daily) as there are a lot of you reaching out to me daily 🙂

 

UDP Packet Loss

The investigation for what has been reported as UDP packet loss is still ongoing. We have deployed a probe at one fellow forum member on both a CODA-4582 and a CGNM-3552 to collect additional data. We are actively working with Hitron and Intel on the results observed.

 

Based on what we know so far, in most instances UDP packet loss is coupled with higher uplink usage in the area. Although the impact is noticeable in specific logs (League of Legends), the root cause for the perceivable impact (while playing) is likely related to bufferbloat (see next issue).

 

 

Bufferbloat

When comparing the performance of a CODA-4582 to a CGNM-3552 in the same network conditions, the CODA-4582 consistently reports higher bufferbloat when tested on DSLReports.

 

Update April 12: The solution for this problem will come in two folds. It will require a change in software which will possibly be included in 2.0.10.27 but more likely in 2.0.10.28 and a change in network configuration.

 

The network configuration change is not compatible with the current firmware so this change will only come after a vast majority of the modems are running the new code. We are however looking at a way to make the change only for specific modems to support testing in the community.

 

Update April 22: This problem seems resolved in firmware 2.0.10.27

 

 

5 GHz WiFi Low range for channels 36 to 48

Lower WiFi channels on the modem have a much smaller range. This is due in part to the limit imposed by Industry Canada to maximum transmit power.

 

Furthermore, the current automatic channel selection (auto mode) tends to select the lower channels when in similar load conditions.

 

Workaround: manually select higher channels (149-153-157-161)

 

Update April 22: The channel selection algorithm has been improved in firmware 2.0.10.27

 

 

Loss of OFDM Channel Lock

Under some RF conditions, the modem fails to lock properly on the OFDM channel. This typically result in variable performance.

 

Update April 12: This problem is resolved in 2.0.10.26T2

 

 

List of connected device does not get fully populated

This is a known issue that has been tracked since firmware 2.0.10.13. We are making improvements at every firmware but it is not a perfect system.

 

The situation is worst after a reboot or firmware upgrade as the list gets reset and must be repopulated as devices renew their DHCP lease.

 

 

NAT Loopback not working for wired clients

When setting up port forwarding to an internal server, it is possible for a client on WiFi to reach the server using the external IP/port. If the client is on a wired interface, it doesn't work.

 

Update April 12: This problem is resolved in 2.0.10.26T2 (not confirmed)

 

 

LAN Counters not working

Some customers reported that LAN counters (especially in bridge mode) are reporting inaccurate values.

 

This problem has been reported to Hitron for investigation.

 

 

Unexpected modem reboot

Some customers reported their modem reboots unexpectedly. We have also seen this behavior in our lab.

 

Update April 12: This problem is resolved in 2.0.10.26T2

 

 

Missing SC-QAM Channels

After a reboot, some modems are missing SC-QAM channels. A fix has been implemented in 2.0.10.26T2 to address this behavior but it has not corrected all scenarios.

 

Investigation continues with Hitron.

 

 

WiFi Survey

The WiFi Survey functionality in firmware 2.0.10.26T2 (and possibly before) reports incorrect SSID names.

 

 

Guest Network

When connecting to the Guest Network, an error message is displayed "only allow DHCP client to use this wireless".  This has been reported in firmware 2.0.10.26T2.

 

Update April 22: This issue has been resolved in firmware 2.0.10.27

Update May 2: It seems this issue is not fully resolved and still experienced by some users


 

Future Planned Improvements

The following are items that we are working on in parallel of the above.

  • Improvement in WiFi speeds
  • Improvement in latency / bufferbloat

 

 

Dave

 

*Edited Labels*

2,620 REPLIES 2,620

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

Yes the issue was fixed ,this is a new issue now happ this morning since the docs 3.1 update. Look like I just got the .23 firmware and now looks like that channel went back up to 37. Should I factory reset the modem now that .23 firmware got pushed

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

Triple_Helix
I Plan to Stick Around

Running fine with the .23 Firmware after a Factory Reset and a Reboot. I also see a few extra settings in the UI.

 

2017-01-27_15-34-40.png

 

2017-01-27_15-29-59.png

 

2017-01-27_15-31-40.png

 

Downstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1591000000256QAM7.6003140.366
2363000000256QAM5.4001040.366
3369000000256QAM5.8001140.366
4375000000256QAM5.5001240.366
5381000000256QAM5.0001340.366
6387000000256QAM5.3001440.366
7393000000256QAM5.6001540.366
8399000000256QAM6.2001640.366
9405000000256QAM6.5001740.946
10411000000256QAM6.7001840.366
11417000000256QAM7.0001940.366
12423000000256QAM7.5002040.366
13429000000256QAM6.9002140.366
14435000000256QAM6.8002240.946
15441000000256QAM6.5002340.366
16447000000256QAM6.6002440.946
17555000000256QAM8.1002540.366
18561000000256QAM8.6002640.946
19567000000256QAM8.6002740.366
20573000000256QAM8.4002840.946
21579000000256QAM8.2002940.366
22585000000256QAM8.2003040.366
23357000000256QAM5.300940.366
24597000000256QAM7.4003240.366
25603000000256QAM8.2003338.983
26609000000256QAM8.7003440.366
27615000000256QAM9.4003538.983
28621000000256QAM9.8003638.983
29633000000256QAM9.2003738.983
30639000000256QAM8.2003838.983
31645000000256QAM7.6003938.605
32651000000256QAM7.2004038.983
OFDM Downstream Overview
ReceiverFFT typeSubcarr 0 Frequency(MHz)PLC lockedNCP lockedMDC1 lockedPLC power(dBmv)
0NANANONONONA
1NANANONONONA
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandwidth
130596000ATDMA - 64QAM39.50016400000
238596000ATDMA - 64QAM41.50033200000
323700000ATDMA - 64QAM39.50026400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel IndexStatelin Digital AttDigital AttBW (sc's*fft)Report PowerReport Power1_6FFT Size
0DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
1DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

tyreman
I Plan to Stick Around

Does firmware .23 enable IPV6 in bridge mode?

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

Double_K
I'm a Reliable Contributor

@tyreman wrote:

Does firmware .23 enable IPV6 in bridge mode?


No - IPv6 is still manually disabled

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/331...

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

jjunge
I Plan to Stick Around
@RogersDave I exchanged for the black dot CODA a week ago and had all channels. Since .23 I am missing several downstream channels again.... is this a firmware bug or am I looking at yet another exchange? Please help...

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

jjunge
I Plan to Stick Around
I should add that I did a factory reset as well - still missing channels ...

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

jjunge
I Plan to Stick Around
One more thing - sorry. I noticed an option for the USB port.. I connected a drive and it showed as connected just once... and now no matter what I plug in - the USB light never comes on and I cannot access the drive whether it be a hard drive or a USB key.

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation


@jjunge wrote:
@RogersDave I exchanged for the black dot CODA a week ago and had all channels. Since .23 I am missing several downstream channels again.... is this a firmware bug or am I looking at yet another exchange? Please help...

I wonder if you could have the same issue I have/had.

 

My non-black-dot modem stopped getting some channels, but in .20, those channels still showed up as 64-QAM erroneously. In .23 they seem to have fixed that bug, so the unavailable channels don't actually show up... 

 

 

Maybe it's the same thing with yours and the channels were never there, but this now-fixed bug made them show up... 

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

jjunge
I Plan to Stick Around
Not sure - but my thought was that the black dot modems were supposed to correct this disappearing channel problem.. speeds were awesome initially once .23 was installed - now they are worse than before... I'm not really sure what to do. This modem is the latest technology but I just can't believe how poor performing it is. Just click the help button under Admin-USB storage and check out all of the spelling errors. If this is any indication of Hitrons QC abilities we are in big trouble and this modem will never have its issues resolved.

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Been hitting the League of Legends servers with alot of packet loss ever since the switch to the modem- never had any issue w/ League on the CGN3ACSMR. Now that the PingPlotter cosmetic bug is fixed, I ran a tracert to the League of Legends game server and hit it again with 50%-60% packet loss. Given that League is a very latency-sensitive game it is pretty frustrating to have your gameplay ruined because of this. 

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

I'm am missing channel 25 now all channels where there this morning don't know if the new firmware cause it but when you get a chance can you take a look thanks. @RogersDave

1 669000000 256QAM 7.200 19 38.983
2 561000000 256QAM 6.200 2 40.366
3 567000000 256QAM 6.100 3 40.366
4 573000000 256QAM 5.700 4 38.983
5 579000000 256QAM 5.800 5 38.983
6 585000000 256QAM 6.300 6 40.946
7 591000000 256QAM 6.100 7 38.983
8 597000000 256QAM 6.100 8 38.983
9 603000000 256QAM 6.400 9 40.366
10 609000000 256QAM 6.700 10 38.983
11 615000000 256QAM 6.800 11 38.983
12 621000000 256QAM 6.900 12 40.366
13 633000000 256QAM 6.600 13 38.983
14 639000000 256QAM 6.900 14 38.983
15 645000000 256QAM 7.100 15 38.983
16 651000000 256QAM 6.900 16 38.983
17 657000000 256QAM 7.100 17 40.366
18 663000000 256QAM 6.800 18 38.983
19 555000000 256QAM 6.400 1 40.366
20 675000000 256QAM 7.000 20 38.605
21 681000000 256QAM 6.500 21 38.983
22 687000000 256QAM 6.300 22 38.983
23 693000000 256QAM 6.100 23 38.983
24 699000000 256QAM 6.100 24 38.983
26 711000000 256QAM 5.700 26 38.605
27 717000000 256QAM 5.600 27 38.983
28 723000000 256QAM 5.700 28 38.605
29 825000000 256QAM 4.900 29 37.636
30 831000000 256QAM 4.700 30 37.356
31 837000000 256QAM 4.400 31 37.636
32 843000000 256QAM 4.800 32 37.636

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

Triple_Helix
I Plan to Stick Around

@lethalsniper wrote:
I'm am missing channel 25 now all channels where there this morning don't know if the new firmware cause it but when you get a chance can you take a look thanks.

1 669000000 256QAM 7.200 19 38.983
2 561000000 256QAM 6.200 2 40.366
3 567000000 256QAM 6.100 3 40.366
4 573000000 256QAM 5.700 4 38.983
5 579000000 256QAM 5.800 5 38.983
6 585000000 256QAM 6.300 6 40.946
7 591000000 256QAM 6.100 7 38.983
8 597000000 256QAM 6.100 8 38.983
9 603000000 256QAM 6.400 9 40.366
10 609000000 256QAM 6.700 10 38.983
11 615000000 256QAM 6.800 11 38.983
12 621000000 256QAM 6.900 12 40.366
13 633000000 256QAM 6.600 13 38.983
14 639000000 256QAM 6.900 14 38.983
15 645000000 256QAM 7.100 15 38.983
16 651000000 256QAM 6.900 16 38.983
17 657000000 256QAM 7.100 17 40.366
18 663000000 256QAM 6.800 18 38.983
19 555000000 256QAM 6.400 1 40.366
20 675000000 256QAM 7.000 20 38.605
21 681000000 256QAM 6.500 21 38.983
22 687000000 256QAM 6.300 22 38.983
23 693000000 256QAM 6.100 23 38.983
24 699000000 256QAM 6.100 24 38.983
26 711000000 256QAM 5.700 26 38.605
27 717000000 256QAM 5.600 27 38.983
28 723000000 256QAM 5.700 28 38.605
29 825000000 256QAM 4.900 29 37.636
30 831000000 256QAM 4.700 30 37.356
31 837000000 256QAM 4.400 31 37.636
32 843000000 256QAM 4.800 32 37.636

Everything still good here!

 

1591000000256QAM7.3003140.366
2363000000256QAM5.1001040.946
3369000000256QAM5.6001140.366
4375000000256QAM5.3001238.983
5381000000256QAM4.7001340.366
6387000000256QAM4.9001440.366
7393000000256QAM5.3001540.946
8399000000256QAM5.9001640.366
9405000000256QAM6.3001740.366
10411000000256QAM6.4001840.366
11417000000256QAM6.7001940.366
12423000000256QAM7.2002040.366
13429000000256QAM6.7002140.366
14435000000256QAM6.5002240.366
15441000000256QAM6.2002340.366
16447000000256QAM6.3002440.366
17555000000256QAM7.8002540.366
18561000000256QAM8.2002640.366
19567000000256QAM8.2002740.366
20573000000256QAM8.1002840.366
21579000000256QAM7.8002940.366
22585000000256QAM7.8003040.366
23357000000256QAM5.000940.366
24597000000256QAM7.0003240.366
25603000000256QAM7.8003338.983
26609000000256QAM8.4003440.366
27615000000256QAM9.0003538.983
28621000000256QAM9.4003638.983
29633000000256QAM8.9003738.983
30639000000256QAM7.8003838.605
31645000000256QAM7.2003938.605
32651000000256QAM6.9004038.605

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

Enhancement request

 

Retested the WPS function on firmware 2.0.10.23- the WPS LED still stays green for more than 5 minutes after establishing a connection with a device. I, incuding others would probably like to have it stay green for only 1 minute after it has established a connection with a device, this way connecting multiple devices and wireless extenders would be much more faster. 

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

14N
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks @RogersDave

 

My modem was updated to .23 and the issue on TP-Link C2600 when CODA is in bridge mode is already fixed.

I can already use my own router. I factory reset the modem through the back and restored my setting. I backed it up before factory reset.

 

Speed is the same. All channels are complete. My modem is the 1st CODA.

 

Does the issue on puting the router to a certain distance from the CODA already fixed?

 

 

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

lethalsniper
I'm an Enthusiast
@RogersDave @Datalink okay so yesterday I had channel 25 missing so this morning I did a factory rest still missing then I unplugged the modem waited 2 min then plugged backed in now all channels are back up , is this issue a modem or was it the firmware that caused it here is my signal levels , how can I tell if I'm on 3.1

Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 591000000 256QAM 6.300 7 38.983
2 567000000 256QAM 6.300 3 40.366
3 573000000 256QAM 5.900 4 38.983
4 579000000 256QAM 5.900 5 38.983
5 585000000 256QAM 6.300 6 40.946
6 561000000 256QAM 6.300 2 40.366
7 597000000 256QAM 6.400 8 40.366
8 603000000 256QAM 6.600 9 40.946
9 609000000 256QAM 6.700 10 38.605
10 615000000 256QAM 6.900 11 38.983
11 621000000 256QAM 7.100 12 40.366
12 633000000 256QAM 6.700 13 38.983
13 639000000 256QAM 7.000 14 38.983
14 645000000 256QAM 7.200 15 38.983
15 651000000 256QAM 7.100 16 38.983
16 657000000 256QAM 7.200 17 38.983
17 663000000 256QAM 7.000 18 38.983
18 669000000 256QAM 7.300 19 38.983
19 675000000 256QAM 7.100 20 38.983
20 681000000 256QAM 6.600 21 38.983
21 687000000 256QAM 6.400 22 38.983
22 693000000 256QAM 6.200 23 38.983
23 699000000 256QAM 6.300 24 38.605
24 705000000 256QAM 6.200 25 38.983
25 711000000 256QAM 5.800 26 38.983
26 717000000 256QAM 5.700 27 38.605
27 723000000 256QAM 5.900 28 38.605
28 825000000 256QAM 5.100 29 37.636
29 831000000 256QAM 4.800 30 37.636
30 837000000 256QAM 4.600 31 37.636
31 843000000 256QAM 4.900 32 37.636
32 555000000 256QAM 6.500

OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 3.700001
1 NA NA NO

Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 34.500 1 6400000
2 38595824 ATDMA - 64QAM 37.750 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.250

OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000



Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

DaveFro
I Plan to Stick Around

I belive that if you are showing a value for FFT type (other than N/A) in the OFDM Downstream Overview section, you are on 3.1 downstream. 

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

prateeck7
I Plan to Stick Around

So when are we expecting Rogers internet to work without issues?

My internet speed is so erradic. I regret it now jumping on Rogers 3 months ago and signing a contract. I should have waited as Bell Gigabit fibe is apparently available in my area now.

My neighbor friend installed it a month ago. He gets 1.33 Gbps download and 130Mbps upload. Crazy and yet reliable. I checked it myself today. Meanwhile I am sitting here at below 100Mbps at 950Mbps plan (upload is less than 5Mbps) since wednesday.

I contacted Bell to inquire about the pricing. They said they would give me Fibe Gigabit bundle package for $5 more than what I am paying Rogers right now (after adjusting for their price increase in Feb).

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

@RogersDave having issues internet just stops working it says I'm connected but I get disconnected and pages just load on wifi and wired connection it would last about minute then be okay then it will happ again since new update.

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

Kyrluckechuck-2
I Plan to Stick Around

Quick question -- What's the latest version being pushed to routers?

 

It appears I'm running 2.0.10.23 and I haven't found any logs/first post info that has anything about this version!

 

o.O

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation


@Kyrluckechuck-2 wrote:

Quick question -- What's the latest version being pushed to routers?

 

It appears I'm running 2.0.10.23 and I haven't found any logs/first post info that has anything about this version!

 

o.O


http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/thread-id/3315...

 

2nd Post contains a change log

 

Re: CODA-4582 - Open Issues for Investigation

dantheman61
I Plan to Stick Around

When I am doing nothing on the internet ping is around 15ms when a download is going ping sky rockets to 3000ms or request times out. 

 

doing nothing test

 

C:\Users\Dan>ping 8.8.8.8 -t

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 25, Received = 25, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 35ms, Average = 19ms

 

with speed test

C:\Users\Dan>ping 8.8.8.8 -t

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=866ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1024ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=724ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=2952ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=743ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 18, Lost = 2 (10% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 15ms, Maximum = 2952ms, Average = 366ms

 

I am on the 250u. Modem it CODA-4582 on V 2.0.10.19 just got this hoping this may fix my problum but it also did the same thing on the cgn3acsmr. This is with a wired conetion. I have tried this with out using my router (netgear R7000 with Asuswrt Merlin) and does the samething. I have also tried this at my friends house and does the same thing he is also on the 250u I think he has the cgn3acsmr modem. It shoud not be doing this. I have also tried this test on a bell 25/10 and the pings go up like 2 ms. Rogers NEEDS to improve this ASAP this dose not look like a isolated problem with my testing. 

 

Thanks Dan