Brutal latency/ping Recently

Need Help?

That's what we're here for! The goal of the Rogers Community is to help you find answers on everything Rogers. Can't find what you're looking for? Just ask!
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply
Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 19

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently

@Datalink @-G- , Appreciate the feedback,

 

I already looked into Bell Fibre how ever it isn't available at my address, Bell DSL is however but it is only 10 down and 1 up.  It sucks that these are my only options. 

 

Do you know if upgrading to ignite will have any affect, or is it basically the same thing? 

 

I have contacted rogers to maybe swap out my modem so I am  waiting to get the new Coda modem shipped, but I dont have high expectations, because Internet problems are very hard to track down the exact issue, but the fact that I am getting Packet Loss on the first IP ping means that the issue is either my Modem or Cables either inside or outside of my house correct? 

 

 

Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 871

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently


@Marando wrote:

@Datalink @-G- , Appreciate the feedback,

 

I already looked into Bell Fibre how ever it isn't available at my address, Bell DSL is however but it is only 10 down and 1 up.  It sucks that these are my only options. 

 

Do you know if upgrading to ignite will have any affect, or is it basically the same thing?  


No, switching to Ignite Internet will not make any difference.  I am an Ignite TV customer, so I have Ignite Internet, and this issue affects me as well.  As @Datalink  mentioned, TPIA customers using the Rogers infrastructure are also impacted.

 

I would also advise sticking with the legacy Rogers Internet and the CODA modem.

 

I have contacted rogers to maybe swap out my modem so I am  waiting to get the new Coda modem shipped, but I dont have high expectations, because Internet problems are very hard to track down the exact issue, but the fact that I am getting Packet Loss on the first IP ping means that the issue is either my Modem or Cables either inside or outside of my house correct? 


Not necessarily.  You'll get packet loss whenever you get an uncorrectable codeword error on your line.  Packet loss can also be caused by congestion in your local node.  (If you have a high bit error rate on your line, you will see network performance degrade.)  However, in my case, my signal levels are normal and the number of uncorrectable codeword errors are extremely low, so this is not caused by "noise" or any other problem between my house and the CMTS.

 

I'm also sure that if I called into tech support, they would tell me that the problem is with my Wi-Fi or my computer, because every test at their end would likely indicate that everything is fine.



Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,771

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently

@Marando keep in mind that gaming doesn't necessarily require a large data rate, latency is the key here, so, DSL/VDSL might be absolutely fine for gaming.  If you're gaming at the semi- professional / professional level, I would think that you've heard of, or read discussions regarding latency in fibre, cable and DSL/VDSL systems.  Fibre is probably the optimum, but then you're contending with Bell's routing thru Chicago or other strange routes.  DSL/VDSL is probably next in line followed by cable.  Just keep in mind, latency is the key point, not data rate.

 

As for Pingplotter, pingplotter and the 4582 modem don't play well together due to internal timing in the modem.  You can and will see false packet loss from the modem and hop #2 which is the Cable Modem Termination System (CMTS).  Ping the following and only the following,  in this order to demonstrate:

 

1.  Ping the modem  - you should see no packet loss from the modem.  Drop the ping interval time down to 0.05 (seconds) using a manual entry of 0.05

2.  Ping hop #2  -  You should see no packet loss from hop #2 (the CMTS), but you should see false packet loss from the modem where you just proved to yourself that there is no packet loss from the modem. 

3.  Ping Rogers IPV4 DNS - 64.71.255.204  - You should see no packet loss from the DNS, but, given that you're running a ping test beyond the CMTS, you should see false packet loss from the modem and CMTS where you just proved that there is no packet loss from either one.  

 

Any case of packet loss shown with Pingplotter should be confirmed by a manual ping test using a command line ping.  

 

So, at the present time, don't be in a hurry to swap the modem.  The modems are actually pretty reliable, despite what the users actually think, and despite tech support's immediate reaction to swap the modem.  So, this requires a little more diagnosis, but, personal opinion, you're probably in the same boat as many other users with high latency which is no good for gaming. 

 

Right click on the top title line of Pingplotter to bring up the display column menu.  Select MAX and ERR to display those columns and drag them to the right to sit beside the Min and Avg columns.  

 

Hope this clears the air (somewhat) regarding pingplotter.  If you run low interval ping tests, pingplotter gets to a point where there is too much data to display one data point per horizontal pixel.  Pingplotter will then display the average of the data that is held per pixel.  The end result, the data flattens out and the plot looks better and better as you scale up in plot time from 60 seconds up to 72 hours.  If you hover your mouse over the plot when that happens, pingplotter will indicate how many data points are in that particular horizontal pixel  It never did that until recently, so, despite the "no warning" of the data averaging in the plot, at least you can see how many data points are in a particular horizontal pixel.   If the text data above is set to Auto, it will display the data for the lower plot time.  The text data will be correct despite the plot flattening out with higher time frames. 

 

Edit:  Its very unfortunate that pingplotter averages the data in "large data" situations instead of preserving the max and min data points and plotting those instead.  Usually when you decide to use pingplotter, you're trying to diagnose high latency issues.  You can't do that when pingplotter averages the data and flattens the curve in high timeframe plots.  That forces you to drop down into low timeframes, either 60 seconds or 5 minutes to actually see the data plotted correctly as it should be.  It becomes rather laborious to review 24, 48, 72 hours of data in 1 or 5 minute segments.  End solution at this point is to capture the data with Wireshark and plot the results, where Wireshark doesn't average the data.  

 

The issue with false packet loss indicated with pingplotter forces Rogers pingplotter users to test from the pc / laptop outwards, checking the modem, CMTS and end target, step by step to determine where any packet loss is occurring.  At the end of the day, you should see no packet loss from the modem, essentially no packet loss from the CMTS although its never perfect, and no packet loss from Rogers DNS, although as with the CMTS, the return from the DNS is never perfect either.  In both cases, the CMTS and DNS, you should only see a handful of packets lost over the course of a 24 hour ping test.  

 

The minute that you test a target beyond the ISP border, and that's for any ISP, all bets are off, as you're now subject to peering and routing to your end target or server.  There has never been any discussion in this forum regarding peering or routing, which is very unfortunate.  I'd love to see that discussion with the Rogers network staff, but, I don't hold out any hope that it would ever happen.



Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 871

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently


@Datalink wrote:

So, at the present time, don't be in a hurry to swap the modem.  The modems are actually pretty reliable, despite what the users actually think, and despite tech support's immediate reaction to swap the modem.  So, this requires a little more diagnosis, but, personal opinion, you're probably in the same boat as many other users with high latency which is no good for gaming. 


Yeah, I totally agree.  I can speak from experience that you should never swap out a modem as a "desperation move" to try and fix a problem when you don't know what else to do.  There is always a possibility that you could make things even worse.

 

Thanks for the interesting PingPlotter tidbits as well.



Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 871

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently


@Marando wrote:

I already looked into Bell Fibre how ever it isn't available at my address, Bell DSL is however but it is only 10 down and 1 up.  It sucks that these are my only options. 


Before switching to Bell or to a service using Bell's infrastructure, do you know if any of your neighbours are using Bell Internet and what their service quality is like?  I don't know whether you are limited to (up to) 10/1 Mb/s due to distance, line conditions, that equipment servicing your area can only support ADSL, or all of the above.  It could turn out to be an even more painful experience than what you are going through now.



Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,771

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently

I wouldn't recommend switching.  What I do recommend is to install DSL/VDSL as a second service that you would use for gaming.  Anything else would use Rogers cable.  The only question if you go this route is how to keep the services completely separate or combine them with a router that uses dual WAN inputs with a primary and secondary route selection.  

 

Assuming that you have both telephone and cables runs in your home, up to the wallplate, you should be able to keep the two services completely separate, allowing you to decide which service to use at any given time.  

 

Yes, there is an additional cost to this, but, if you're playing at a semi-professional / professional level, then the cost would be worth it, assuming that it improves your gaming results. 



Highlighted
I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently

Model:TG3482G
Vendor:ARRIS Group, Inc.
Hardware Revision:11

Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 12

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently

Hello,

 

I am hoping someone can tell me if these results are something to do on my end that I can fix or if this is the same problem everyone else seems to having.  My kids were blaming the rogers router for their lag so I went out and bought an expensive router but they are still having huge lag spikes in their online games.  I also spoke with technical support who ran a line test and of course said everything looks good. It's frustrating to say the least.

 

These are my signal levels on my coda-4582:

 

Image 2.jpg

 

This is my ping results to the rogers IPV4 address:

 

Capture.JPG

 

My tracert to google:

 

Tracert.JPG

 

and finally my ping results to what I believe is my CMTS:

 

Capture2.JPG

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,771

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently

@raymond111 the images won't be available until sometime later this morning as a moderator has to approve them.  In the mean time, skip back one page and read thru my previous post from earlier this evening:

 

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Brutal-latency-ping-Recently/m-p/459896#M60332

 

Then skip down and read thru my other posts on this same page.  Hopefully those posts will provide some explanation for the moment.

 

At the end of the day, you might be yet another customer that is suffering the effects of high latency and packet loss that has been seen on the Rogers network since January, for which Rogers has not provided any explanation.



Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 871

Re: Brutal latency/ping Recently


@raymond111 wrote:

I am hoping someone can tell me if these results are something to do on my end that I can fix or if this is the same problem everyone else seems to having.  My kids were blaming the rogers router for their lag so I went out and bought an expensive router but they are still having huge lag spikes in their online games.  I also spoke with technical support who ran a line test and of course said everything looks good. It's frustrating to say the least.


From the ping RTTs, it looks like the same problem that I am seeing.  However, you are also seeing MUCH higher packet loss.  This could be simply due to traffic loads on your local node or it could also be artificial, as a result of enabling QoS on your new router.

 

Tech Support only seems to have visibility to your modem and its connection to the Rogers network... but that's not where the problem is.  The cause appears to be one level up in the network, at the point where the local node steers traffic toward either the Rogers network or towards the Point-of-Interconnect for TPIA customers.  It sure looks like the main processor on the "router" portion of the CMTS is now significantly more loaded, doing whatever it is that it is now doing, and that's momentarily blocking packet forwarding, which is why customers' network packets are getting delayed and sometimes lost.