Not going to happen without DOCSIS 3.1 upstream. Speaking of that, from what I've seen to date, there's only one ISP in North America running OFDMA, which is Service Electric. They appear to be located in Pennsylvania. Kind of interesting, a very small ISP has managed to do something that no large ISP has done to date. No doubt Rogers is testing OFDMA, and for anyone who happens to be on a CMTS that is running OFDMA for test purposes, they'll be able to see that in the signal data for the Hitron CODA-4582, and in the XB6 modems. Testing, but, no network wide rollout yet.
One thing that people dont understand.. thats its not just as simple as 'just add it' sort of thing.. that there is so much technical in the background, its not as simple as flipping a switch.
If you look at just about any of the regular internet services to date.. upstream was always on the lower side. Compare cable to DSL, and DSL is often even worse 😞
There are services now which do offer higher upstream bandwidth.. but generally every one I have seen, are using FIBER direct to the house. Overall its capability is much higher and can handle doing the higher upstream (usually is bi directional same speed).
This would ultimately be the best overall to provide to everyone.
BUT it wont happen any time soon unfortunately, in my opinion 😞
Really right now, you are seeing it only in the most highest density areas like Toronto. As the area is so dense, and with lots of high density buildings (apartments, etc) its easier to get the feed to all those areas. The further away, and the more spread out the population is, the much more expensive it is. Especially when you get to areas where you would having to bury all new cables across streets with no above ground lines, etc.
Rogers generally seems to have stopped it FTTH push out.. as at least on the downstream side, they are able to get the same without having to pay to get all the fiber installed.
And as for Bell.. outside of those few select areas.. your not getting FTTH. Your getting FTTN, same as rogers.
But your luck if your getting that in some cases, all depending on where you are. The more semi rural you get? sometimes next to nothing. IE: I can get up to 1gbps downstream speeds with Rogers.. the best Bell can do for 90% of my town? 10mbps..
Be aware.. bell FIBE and bell FTTH (fiber to the home) are two different things.
Standard bell fibe, is only VDSL, where its FTTN (fiber to the node) and then still phone line to the house.
You cant get 1.5gbsp via that.
Your probably going to get 50/10??
Only ares with direct FTTH are available to get the 1.5gbps
(which is a pretty small area truthfully)
I dont think they are able to do much further upload speeds yet, until the docsis 3.1 rollout is completed?
As compared to what?
If you look at any cable based provider, even across the US, thats about average, if not higher.
Now, is technically the latest cable technology on paper capable of doing higher? Sure. But its not really tested/implemented anywhere on a large scale yet that I am aware.
The only services you will really see offering any higher uploads, are areas with Direct fiber connection.
Bell is offering this. BUT if you actually look at the footprint which it is actually available in, is actually quite small compared to the overall footprint of where high speed internet is available (let alone rural areas which dont even have high speed still).
EG: I live in an area, where I can get the 1gbps package from rogers. But bell can not provide me more than 10mbps/.5 service (and this is up only recently from 5mbps/.25)
So there are many factors in play here.
Hopefully as time goes on the upstream will increase/get better on cable.
And if you live in an area which is service by other services which can provide that upstream, if it is necessary to the user, then its a completely viable option to switch.
@Earache wrote:
(apparently Rogers has stopped testing DOCSIS 3.1 on upload and are waiting for 4.0 instead)
Unlikely. Rogers may have had some teething pains as they roll out DOCSIS 3.1 upstream but I cannot see them abandoning this effort. I would bet on them transitioning neighbourhoods to PON before adopting D4.0.
The bare minimum doesn't work anymore. Failure to plan for the future is creeping up quickly with Rogers. Either they need to decide to roll out FTTH across the country or figure out another way of competing. I suspect most of Southern Ontario will have Bell fiber layed by 2024-2025, while Rogers will still be diddling about trying to decide how to gauge their customers, instead of competing on price or on tech.
4 people in my house. 2 students, 2 adults working from home and Ignite's upload isn't sufficient to maintain the quality we need in 2021. I am constantly dropped from calls due to "bandwidth" issues. 30Mbps for a software developer that has developed software in the upper end of 100gb and having to upload full program executabiles of the software (100gb+) is a pain. Last time I did so took nearly 6 hour and a half hours, now I have collegues do it that have 1Gbps upload.
Even a bump back to the orginial 50 would help (a tiny bit, it would shave off about 1-2 hrs to upload the files, vs 14mins on 1 Gbps upload...)
I think that Rogers has enough capacity-related issues with 30Mb/s upstream. (... and there are more and more reports of customers getting their connections throttled if they generate excessive upstream traffic.) Raising upload speeds will just exacerbate existing problems. (Other MSOs are experiencing even bigger challenges due to heavy usage.)
Implementing D3.1upstream will help but they also need to increase capacity by freeing up additional spectrum, and they can only do that by retiring legacy technologies. (I still haven't heard when they might finally retire Digital TV.) They also need to upgrade capacity on their backhaul links. Rogers can also achieve some additional interim gains by deploying Remote PHY , but this will also require deploying fibre in neighbourhoods and if they do that, it makes more sense to just roll out FTTH.
Things will eventually get better but big changes cannot happen overnight. In the meantime, Rogers needs to do whatever they can to keep things from getting any worse.
Ok, let me just say up front that I'm not apologizing for Rogers in any way, shape or form. Not my job and they don't pay me enough (RE's = $ 0.00) to do so.
DOCSIS 3.1 download (OFDM) has been running since March 2017 and appears to be stable at this point. Yes, you're correct, it appears that Rogers has stopped testing DOCSIS 3.1 (OFDMA) upload. It's proceeding with rolling it out across the network. That appears to have triggered numerous ongoing disconnect issues for many customers, primarily with Hitron CODA-4582 modems and possibly with the Arris XB6 which is the TG-3482ER modem. Both of those modems are Intel Puma 7 chipset modems. Despite numerous complaints, the Office of the President refuses to discus technical issues, the Engineering Dept is radio silent as are the forum moderators and the field techs are running around replacing modems and cables to no avail. It appears that no single person or department at Rogers is taking responsibility for what appears to be a growing debacle. For the customers who have DOCSIS 3.1 upload (OFDMA) running and are not affected by continuing disconnects, congratulations. Everyone else deserves a lot of sympathy and the correct technical support to resolve the problems. Best of luck 😞
If I remember this correctly, the load across the network has increased by about 50% over pre-pandemic levels. Every cable system is having problems, don't know about fibre based systems. Cable systems simply were not designed for high speed uploads as the systems are a legacy holdover from analogue cable days where the download portion is the lions share of the traffic and what little upload there was, was relegated to the bottom frequency spectrum of the cable network which is more susceptible to noise, or so I've read. So, we go into the pandemic situation with cable systems that are simply not designed to manage the loads. The question at that point is, how fast can cable systems upgrade their equipment to match the load, and, more importantly, should they? I think if I was a top level manager I'd be looking at the timeline to receive new equipment (months, years ??) versus the prediction for a solution to the pandemic in the form of vaccines. Which one will arrive first, and if it appears that the vaccines will win the day and everyone will return to an office environment, albeit slowly, why even spend the money and effort to install significant capacity upgrades only to end up with far too much capacity in the near future? I'd bet that Rogers exec's are making calculated bets on what arrives first, vaccines or potential upgrades to equipment, which might arrive months after its ordered. Not saying that waiting for vaccines instead of ordering new equipment is necessarily the right choice, just trying to point out that Rogers is a business with a focus on the bottom line. After all, they have an expensive baseball team and NHL contract to pay for, who needs new equipment anyways?
Fwiw, there hasnt' been any indication to date which would hint that Rogers plans to offer higher uploads when DOCSIS 3.1 (OFDMA) is finally up and running without any issue. I would think that would be the natural outcome of having OFDMA up and running, but, as I said, there's no indication to date of that finally happening.
Fibre: just to mention, Rogers has been installing Fibre systems as well. Don't know what technology is used as the customers who have it installed are radio silent for some reason. Bell is laying fibre in numerous places, but, I'd bet that if you looked at the cable and fibre subscriber maps, you would see that Rogers cable has a far larger footprint compared to Bell's Fibre. If Rogers can overcome the OFDMA issues and quickly move to higher uploads, that would be an instant game changer across the network. One can only hope.
As for Bell's fibre installation, dig out your property map, find the actual property markers on your property and make sure that you absolutely understand the easements as they exist on your property. I can guarantee that you won't be happy with Bell's contractor when they're wandering all over your front yard, digging it up as they see fit. Say goodbye to your pristine driveway and maybe your front yard, depending on how the conduit is run. Either way, you and your neighbours won't be happy with the result. We have a roll of fibre waiting for installation at the demarc beside our garage. That's been there for over 5 months and I don't expect Bell to be ready for home installations for at least six months, probably longer, when they've completed all of the backend installations.
As much as I agree with the requirement for higher uploads, it comes down to a race, Rogers OFDMA versus Bell's completed fibre installations.
DOCSIS 4? Now there's an interesting topic. The spec is out, but, at this point that's probably all that's out. Intel sold the Home Connected Division to MaxLinear, which is the company that produces the Cable Tuner for the Intel Puma 6 and 7 modems, where the white Hitron CODA-4582 and XB6 (Arris TG-3482ER) are Intel Puma 7 modems. What Maxlinear does with the Puma modem design is anyone's guess. For now, all they've said is that they're in the game, which isn't saying a whole lot for any company. Broadcom, which makes the BCM-3390 chipset as found in the Technicolor XB7 (Technicolor CGM-4140COM) went looking for development money from the ISPs, to which the ISP's said "Nyet". Broadcom was burned by Comcasts initial support for Full Duplex, whereupon Comcast then changed direction. So, it appears that they've settled for potential commitments for DOCSIS 4 modems. The other part of the DOCSIS 4 debacle is Comcasts support for Full Duplex DOCSIS (FDX) that would allow upstream and downstream traffic to occupy the same block of spectrum, versus the Extended Spectrum DOCSIS (ESD) option which would run separate downstream and upstream frequency blocks, with cable frequencies extending upwards to 1.8 Ghz where today they stop at 1.002 Ghz. So, that forces any chipset company to design and manufacture one integrated system that supports both visions of Docsis 4.0, or, design two separate modems, one for each DOCSIS 4.0 version. No wonder Broadcom didn't want to do anything without financial support. So, as they say, may you live in interesting times.
There's no easy and fast answer to increasing upstream bandwidth. That's just not going to happen overnight. For those with Fibre to the Home (FTTH) with fast upload capability, they should consider themselves lucky. Right time, right place as they say. For everyone else, as they say, hurry up and wait. You'll probably receive a pandemic vaccination before you see higher uploads, either thru Rogers or Bell.
@coolspot wrote:
I can't believe 4 years after this thread started, we're still stuck at 30mbps...
The problem is that the basic underlying technology of Cable Internet has not changed much in the past 4 years.
DOCSIS is still relatively competitive in areas where Bell only offers xDSL-based services, but neither Rogers nor anybody else could have predicted that the dominant home Internet technologies would become so totally insufficient so quickly. D3.1 upstream will help somewhat, once the kinks get worked out. However, Rogers now urgently needs to accelerate plans to roll out next-generation technologies that not only leapfrog Bell's current FTTH offerings but their next-gen tech as well.
Like it or not, DOCSIS will become just as inadequate and obsolete as DSL is today, faster than they ever expected, and Rogers cannot continue to hope and pray that the world will go "back to normal" anytime soon because this IS the new normal.
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