Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,294

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Everyone who has that choice between Bell Fibre, Beanfield Fibre or Rogers / TPIA cable has to make his or her own choice.  Not going to debate the merits of fibre versus cable here.  That's already been done in other forums, over and over again.  

 

Consider the following points;

 

1.  Bell is cherry picking the market, servicing high density buildings in limited markets wherever they can.  Looks like you're in one of those buildings.  Congrats, you're in a competitive market.  For the rest of Canada, even VDSL (as you pointed out) isn't available.  Best I can do is 5 Mb/s down 600 K up with Bell, who keeps calling to advise me that its much much better that Rogers gigabit service.  Wonder what they're smoking these days?

 

2.  There are a good number of Bell Fibre users who absolutely hate the fibre fed Home Hub 2000 and 3000.  There is a thread on the DSLReports site that discusses the equipment and methods to get rid of the HH 3000.  Essentially the users partly disassemble the HH3000 and plug the fibre SFP into a fibre to coax converter and run ethernet to a router, essentially exactly the same as your current installation, convert a fibre feed into a coax feed.  End result, a much better router, with the customer picking the tab for both the fibre converter and router.

 

3.  As for why you're in the same boat.  Its most likely that Rogers doesn't have a fibre modem, just guessing on this one.  For the small number of Rogers customers that have fibre runs installed, running a conversion to cable means that Rogers doesn't have to supply and service yet another modem model, and train a large number of tech support staff to support an extremely small number of modems.  Very simply its a matter of cost.  That will probably change over time, but the current numbers probably drive the equipment decisions to where they currently reside. 

 

So, at the end of the day, if you find yourself in a competitive market, take full advantage of it if you can.  The choice is yours to make. 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 37

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@Datalink, sorry, but you completely missed my point.
No one is debating the merits of cable over fibre, or cares about Bell cherry picking the market or Bell Fibre users not liking their modems.
My point is Rogers has FTTH in a lot of places but uses cable instead. If you do not find yourself in a place where there is FTTH you are to be excluded from my point because it doesn't apply to you.
It's frustrating to have FTTH but see cable limit your speeds. Maybe Rogers doesn't have a fibre modem, but they should still think about the people who have FTTH, even if they are a minority (by the way I live in the Toronto South Core, and we are not a minority in that area).

Also, you say that the minority of users probably do not justify the costs for Rogers. I do not think so. Remember when Bell Fibre had like 10 users and Bell still had a whole different customer service department for these 10 people? They did so because they have a commitment to Fibre. Rogers may not be actively working on FTTH for everyone like Bell, but it will naturally happen at the pace new constructions happen in Toronto.

 

What I'd like is to have a response from Rogers.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 1,086

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth


@DeanLubaki wrote:

@Datalink, sorry, but you completely missed my point.
No one is debating the merits of cable over fibre, or cares about Bell cherry picking the market or Bell Fibre users not liking their modems.
My point is Rogers has FTTH in a lot of places but uses cable instead. If you do not find yourself in a place where there is FTTH you are to be excluded from my point because it doesn't apply to you.
It's frustrating to have FTTH but see cable limit your speeds. Maybe Rogers doesn't have a fibre modem, but they should still think about the people who have FTTH, even if they are a minority (by the way I live in the Toronto South Core, and we are not a minority in that area).

Also, you say that the minority of users probably do not justify the costs for Rogers. I do not think so. Remember when Bell Fibre had like 10 users and Bell still had a whole different customer service department for these 10 people? They did so because they have a commitment to Fibre. Rogers may not be actively working on FTTH for everyone like Bell, but it will naturally happen at the pace new constructions happen in Toronto.

 

What I'd like is to have a response from Rogers.


Just a heads up, the coax cable isn't limiting the speeds. The Rogers Network is based on DOCSIS, DOCSIS is the limiting factor, not Coax Cables.

 

Rogers business model is different than Bell's in the sense that the products Rogers offers are available to everyone in the Rogers service area. You can get the most basic plan or top tier gigabit and the experience is the same for all customers. With Bell depending where you live you can only get DSL, other areas VDSL, and other areas Fibre. So depending where you live with Bell you might only get bandwidth starved DSL, with Rogers you can get any package, the entire cable footprint supports all the packages. 

 

 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 37

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Well today, I decided to switch back to Bell!

They offered me symmetrical unlimited Gigabit internet + basic TV for $73, no contract and guaranteed price for 3 years.

Bell understood the competition from Beanfield and Rogers. Too bad Rogers couldn't get off the DOCSIS and fully embrace the FTTH in my condo.

Will still remain a Rogers wireless customer thought!

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 623

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@DeanLubaki

 

If FTTH is available to you then yes enjoy it my friend.

 

For most of us.. like myself I have the choice between Rogers Gigabit speed or Bell 6 MBS internet and 0,5 mbs upload so it's a no brainer for me to stay on Rogers Gigabit package. Always pick what is the best out there friend and eventually Rogers will step up with D3.1 Upload and then Full Duplex but why wait since you're already in a FTTH zone.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,031

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

I have to 100% agree with JohnBeaudin.

When its an option, its a great option to choose.
But I think its still a very SMALL % of people that have FTTH.
I think the FIBE spread (which is still only FTTN like rogers), probably still only has a 50% coverage over their area.. and like JohnBeaudin said lots of places only having 6mbps DSL as their only bell option..
Rogers is pretty much the only DECENT option.

 

One thing to remember as well, some of that infrastructure as well, like those fiber runs.. are probably OWNED by Bell.. so no one else can jump on them (other than a 3rd party reseller once that is allowed?).  Rogers wants to do FTTH they have to run all their own fiber as well.
Again.. If they can get close to there eventually with D3.1, on the existing infrastructure.. saves a ton of money on installation.  (Laying fiber is CRAZY expensive.  At our work, we paid almost 20k to get a fiber run about 300m from the box, under a street and a driveway, to our building)



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 37

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

The thing is you underestimate how long it will take before Bell deploys the fiber.
Today, they announced that all of Toronto now have Fibre.
If your house doesn't have FTTH, they will install it upon subscription.

They also promised speeds up to 5Gbps even for residential, by next year

https://mobilesyrup.com/2018/04/05/bell-announces-all-fibre-optic-network-is-now-live-in-toronto/


I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 623

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@DeanLubaki

 

That's very good news for Toronto and the GTA, however for the rest of the canada it will take at least 10 years to finish the rest of Canada.

 

I live in New-Brunswick, and my town Lameque doesn't have FTTH but the next town just a little bit bigger than mine Shippagan has FTTH since 2013.

 

My guess is Atlantic Canada will be the last place they will focus FTTH deployment , They will Finish Ontario and Quebec , probably about 5 years, and then within 10 years they will finish FTTH deployment in Atlantic Canada.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

And that would suggest that bell just got access to the whole orchard of cherries in Toronto. They said six months ago they would meet that goal in April this year. They just did.

And my own town also has it on all the poles now and in access points on every corner and some runs to homes already in. So not cherry picking anymore. While they cherry picked the large buildings the backbones went into all the neighbourhoods at the same time and built a huge revenue stream to finish the rest. Now if the CRTC can finalize the wholesale rates on the bell wholesale to third parties you can even get it from any company that wholesale. CRTC turned back offer of 117 dollars per month for the speeds above fttn.

The race is definitely on and in Toronto anyway the Blue guys are now officially winning. Me thinks bell is not far from being ftth on their whole platform. Rogers will need to start rethinking their ads.

For now though we live with whatever we have and can afford.
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 623

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@BS

 

My guess for FTTH on their whole platform

All Ontario and Quebec (Within 2023)

All Atlantic Canada ( Within 2028)

 

I am very confident it will the margin for error will be minimal but let's see!