Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 37

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Most of the Canada lives in Ontario and Quebec, so it makes sense that they be the first Smiley Wink


@JohnBeaudinwrote:

@DeanLubaki

 

That's very good news for Toronto and the GTA, however for the rest of the canada it will take at least 10 years to finish the rest of Canada.


 

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 603

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@DeanLubaki

 

Yes of course it make senses, but Rogers will still be able to compete for a few years outside of the GTA, they have a good 5 years to put everything in place. If they fall behind then well.. Bell will be far ahead.

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

There is another factor in play here - with speeds of up to 5 GB/seconds, given that Toronto and Montreal and Quebec are major corporate centres, and even outside Toronto, we are seeing small software and data companies opening that are going international quickly on small locations in the outreaches of Toronto, there is a huge medium sized business and corporate demand for faster uploads and downloads of data - an example, MacKiev software is a small educational software company in the states - they are now distributing Family Tree maker all over the world, and they have contracted from their branch offices to link into Amazon services and distributed servers around the world (they have distributed servers to support high demand upload and download of large family tree and media (mine is over 100 GB of data - imagine uploading that to Ancestry and to FTM servers over 10 Mbs upload - I am at over 24 hours to upload that data - 3 days at times when connections aren't stable or latency is off.

 

I turn my computer on set up the upload (fortunately, I don't have to do it often) and I was beta testing for a year with them, so I was uploading frequently - turn over time on next beta was 7 days, so I did not get a lot of testing time when I had to do a new upload.

 

So my point is that with these major centres, with companies opening up in areas of residential settings (small office in a plaza) as it meets desires in Ontario to bring work and homes closer to reduce transit demands over time.

 

With these kind of speeds available, I can see Bell getting a real step up on the corporate side of things, and by having the whole Toronto and soon GTA covered, that is a huge influx of cash flow to speed up the upgrades, so I think that your prediction is very consertive - definitely major centres across Canada, I suspect we will be seeing them covered very quickly - an example, is a large amount of Collingwood in Ontario is now covered and allowing for expansion of industry and small tech business in the areas, and introduction of distributed computing centres.

 

The other thing that will have to begin to be concerning for Rogers is that their announced move to the new model with 500 connections to the CMTS rather than 1000 (if I recall that correctly), and at the moment their pass over rate of houses connected homes has been increasing - (i.e., less connections in a residential area on average), now in Toronto, anyone can get the improved speed down and up, while Rogers is limited right now to at best generally 30 up in Toronto - this is becoming a real race now.

 

And I suspect that Bell, if they can get a significant increase on their customer base, and there is also incentive for them to get more wholesale market by getting final agreement on distribution rates to the wholesalers on the full fibre to the home, with these discounted rates, this may create problems for Rogers goal to double the number of residential consumers and reducing the passby rates to support the new model with increased upload speeds.

Interesting times.  Rogers reports show they have lots of cash flow, so they may have to start going more agressively.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Well, actually, you will find that there are lots of places outside the GTA that are pretty much ready to go for Bell.

 

The pressure just went up on Rogers, but they know that I am sure.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 37

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Exactly @BS! 

What's funny is a few days ago a few of you were like "nah it'll take forever until Bell covers a significant portion of the population" and they just did...
Rogers has already lost the speed race because Bell can easily offer 5 Gbps symmetrical and announced plans to do so.
Rogers could have easily prevented some people from switching by offering true fibre to the people who already have FTTH. Too bad for Rogers.
Oh and by the way, my entire condo floor is also switching after they received the same offer as I did by mail!

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@DeanLubaki  Exactly, I like you have watched the nay sayers - I have not been one of them - I have watched FTTH go into Collingwood, be provisioned for the villages in Grey county, new neighbourhoods outside of Port Perry into the really small new builds in the country be provisioned to the door, they just have to bring the backbone in and last time I was talking to my in laws - that is just waiting for the runs to go up to Lindsay and Peterborough areas and new subdivisions in more rural areas around those towns and cities, so it is well outside the GTA - Hamilton and Stony creek is on it from telephone poles - and they own the poles, they just had to run a fibre from the pole to the house demarc on those, no digging, just a short cable run and connection to the home.

 

Along one of our major streets, the fibre backbone has been running across the poles east to west all the way across durham region on every major east west run of poles - 4 major streets, and they began running the home runs and building runs last year.  Our neighbourhood in Whitby is ready, just the last run, the cables are sitting in the access plates at every corner sidewalk, they just bring one of those snake like core drillers.  The junction points in front of the homes are being changed over with every install of a new customer, ready to go Fibre once they do the street run.

 

I am retired, so I walk over to the Fibre box up the street and talk to the techs and they give me the info of what they are doing.

 

And yes, my daughter two years ago in an apartment in Scarborough, they ran the fibre up the outside walls, drilled into each apartment, and then offered packages to the first 100 - almost all of them took it, and the Rogers infrastrure cables in the building is aging and they can't get stable connections on their old installs - Rogers has to do the whole building to improve it.

 

this is  Midland and Sheppard area, every building in that area new and old was set up and ready to go by the end of last year - and I suspect the infusion of cash flow has allowed them to excellerate their rollouts.

 

Rogers is up against the wall in most of Southern Ontario at the moment, Ottawa, and most of our smaller towns are on Cogeco and other companies and Rogers doesn't have a presense in general outside the Golden Horseshoe.

 

Not that I want Rogers to fail, they won't, but maybe they will get off their high horses and the competition can really kick in on speed, and we can begin to choose on what we want, and cost.

 

Guess they may soon lose the Ookla fastest speed mentions if they are not careful. 

 

Entertaining to watch as we consider moving out of a Rogers town, and leave completely, or I go wholesaler because I just feel like working with a smaller personalized company with a strong reputation and I can just walk in their door and talk to any staff member and they will know who I am and I can talk directly face to face to the installers.

 

And along with this, the limitations on Fibre to number of boxes resulting on slow downs in the home will disappear, so Rogers won't be able to claim that 8 tuners versus 4 anymore, and the whole shared arguments will disappear too.

 

I see the best part is the push to speed that will benefit small IT and data centres and distribution centres across Canada as this technology rolls out.  that is where the money is for all the companies, and we as residential benefit too.

 

Rogers - your turn.

Bruce

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 603

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Bell is definitely already ahead in the major markets, let's see what will be Rogers's next move to stay competitive.

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 577

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Bell is really turning on the heat with Rogers, especially since they just announced to bring FTTH to another 1.3 million households and businesses to the GTA/905 area by the end of 2018.

 

I'm starting to be a bit skeptical of Rogers' plans to migrate to FDX DOCSIS because there is a growing number of time-sensitive (latency) applications. With DOCSIS, latency and bandwidth can be easily impacted by many sources of ingress. With, FTTH (GPON), there are virtually no sources of it ingress. 

 

How will FDX DOCSIS remain competitive with GPON in terms of latency? It's clear that FDX will remain competitive with bandwidth, but how will it remain competitive with GPON with latency? At that point, it seems clear to me that FTTH is the real winner.

 

Over the past year, there has been a huge surge in the demand for more upload speeds. More areas are seeing congestion, more node splits need to happen, more fibre needs to be brought in. It looks that Rogers will be lacking behind in upload speed, but with increased competition, I'd like to see Rogers to lead the cable industry again by being aggressive in it's FDX DOCSIS roll out, especially if it wants to remain competitive with Bell.

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 603

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@RyzenFX

 

FTTH was always a clear winner, the only thing was that it was only available to a small footprint, however it seems like Bell is really working on fixing that at least in the GTA.

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 603

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

I wonder why Rogers is so shy about D3.1 Upload, would be nice if we have any updates, I was expecting them already rolling it out in the Toronto area.

 

In time like these I really miss @RogersDave , he was the only one providing us with updates on that matter.