cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Earache
I Plan to Stick Around

Let me preface this by saying, I, in no way dislike Rogers as an ISP, and am I, in no way advertising for other providers.  I have no issues with it (besides the topic at hand), and I would like to open a dialogue with Rogers employees and the community to get a better understanding of what customers want and what can actually be provided (and reasoning for it).  Also note that different providers, provide services in different areas, they do not cover all of Canada, and your location may dictate which service providers are available, therefore when discussing this topic, when I refer to a company, I'm referring it independently of services available in a given location.

 

I would like to have a discussion regarding upload bandwidth.  For as long as I can remember, us Canadians, have had the one of the worst upload bandwidth, which to me in 2017 is not acceptable any more.  Many people have begun careers at home (whether for a business or entrepreneurial) or even just brick and mortar businesses.  For a brick and mortar store, many offer free Wi-Fi to their client which ends up saturating their bandwidth.  For stay at home careerists, they depend on upload bandwidth for various tasks, such as (and not limiting to): video conferencing, transfer files whether to clients or web/file servers and etcetera. 

 

 

According to Speedtest.net Report, no provider is capable of anything over 30 Mbps.  As this isn't necessarily true as Bell is now offering 100Mbps on their Gigabit Fibe plan (which might I add is cheaper than Rogers offering).  I also know that there are smaller providers such as Beanfield that offer 1Gbps upload bandwidth (what the actual result is, I cannot say, but apparently it is close to advertised).  There is another provider in Muskoka, Ont, that offers the identical connection bandwidth to Beanfield (both are less expensive than Rogers/Bell, and have a smaller footprint as well).  

 

Seeing how 2 small providers that are turning a profit with such a small foot print, I don't see how the bigger (see wealthier) internet providers, provide lackluster upload speeds.  It may be for the fact there is more equipment needed therefore costs will go up or there are to many people on the network, but if smaller providers can achieve surely bigger more successful ones can as well.  

 

Rogers offers 50Mbps upload to business, but some providers, offer identical packaging to businesses and consumers, the price may vary as business will get static IPs, dedicated lines and/or service agreements.  In a CBC article from 2014 Why internet upload speed in Canada lags behind world average, Rogers stated that upstream usage only accounted for 13% of all traffic on its network and they expected it to increase 40% year over year.  This was 3 years ago, if I remember correctly Rogers internet service plans were called Hybrid Fibre and the fastest connection was 60/10. 

 

One of the limitations I believe is the infrastructure itself, as many cities in Canada capable of being developed as the costs are high, but that should not deter a higher upstream. Personally I would prefer the Canadian government to spend money on developing communications in Canada rather than spending money on other infrastructure projects (that will amount to money wasted).  Rogers experienced an 11% growth in Internet revenue in the 2016 Annual report (seen here),  Cable (Internet/TV) accounts for 25% of total revenue while, Business Solutions accounts for only 3%, yet according to the CBC article mentioned above, "Part of the problem lies in how telecommunications services have historically been sold in Canada. Many new innovations – think BlackBerry – have generally been aimed at businesses first, with mainstream consumers eventually following along," why would the focus be on business first when the gains in consumer products are higher?

 

According to BCE, Rogers racing to new frontier in high-speed Internet, Rogers has completed it's DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade in Toronto (no word on other cities/municipalities), and the cost to achieve this was roughly $250-300/home (est by Desjardins Securities Inc).   BCE (Bell) is currently investing $1.14B in fibre services in Toronto and according to Barclay's Capital the cost is $400-700/home using aerial infrastructure (using hydro poles to run fibre vs burying underground).  With DOCSIS 3.1 downstream capacity is 10 Gbps, while upstream is 1-2 Gbps.  In full duplex (which I believe is not the case with Rogers), upstream capacity is 10 Gbps.  The difference between BCE and Rogers, gigabit networks is one is cable the other is fibre.  Fibre will always be faster and more efficient as outside interference does not affect it, and it is able to travel further distances.  BCE is offering gigabit speeds with 70% more upstream for a cheaper price, and much more future proof with their fibre network.  

 

What I propose is Rogers to offer a much higher upstream either to match competitors (BCE) or surpass them as many Canadians are doing more on the internet, and not just downloading "stuff."  Sure there are people that will abuse it but provisions can be made to thwart that.  Many Canadians are now using cloud storage and moving large amounts of files currently can be painful (I have had to upload gigs of data to clients/co-workers), more data is being shared then ever before and will only grow as more people being switching from physical data to digital (paper vs computer). 

 

Thank you for listening/reading and I hope other Rogers customers will agree and we can get a good discussion going on here.

 

 

***Added Labels***

83 REPLIES 83

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

yyzsam
I Plan to Stick Around

speedtest2.PNGI had my FTTH service upgraded to Gigabit from 300 and it is also Symmetrical now, it's glorious. 

@DatalinkThere is no COAX involved with eliminating the HH3000, it's a Fiber to Ethernet converter, not COAX. There is also no disassembly involved either, it's really no different then unplugging an Ethernet cable. 

People are doing it for control. I did the same when I had Rogers, I prefer my own firewall and not letting my ISP having access to my internal network. I actually still use the HH3000 but just as an access point. 

Also, it's not just condos, they are blanketing entire neighborhoods and have been for some time now. 

DOCSIS won't be able to compete with FTTH in the long run, infact it already can't. That RG6 copper cable can only handle so much compared to glass. Rogers will at some point have throw in the towel and provide true FTTH for that last mile. I hope they do because I'll switch from Bell, I believe Rogers core network is better than Bells. 

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

DeanLubaki
I Plan to Stick Around

Yup!
First thing I did when the Bell technician left is take the SFP out of the HomeHub 3000, plug it to my Trendnet SFP to Ethernet convertor then toss the HomeHub 3000.
I am so happy to have gotten rid of all proprietary equipment .

 

Also, like @yyzsam said, there is no need to "disassemble" the HomeHub per say. The people who did didn't know how to take out the SFP properly.
SFP to Ethernet converters go for 40$. It'll take take any day to truly get rid of all proprietary equipment over a bridge mode.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Earache
I Plan to Stick Around

I'm truly glad to see people discussing this and thank you all who have posted.

The concern is not download speed though as 1Gbps at this time is more than enough, and if Rogers wants to compete with Bell's supposed bup to 5Gbps next year they can.  The concern is upload.  The fact Bell just rolled out *almost* symmetrical upload, they just took a shot at Rogers (their biggest competitor).  Hopefully this will spur into action and get DOCSIS 3.1 rolled out faster (which I highly doubt).

 

Unfortunately I'm in an area that was serviced by FCI Broadband, who went bankrupt.  There was a auction for their client/equipment at the time, Bell had an agreement to purchase the company for more than Rogers had offered, BUT the CEO of Bell had an argument with the CEO of FCI and out of spite scrapped the agreement and sold for less to Rogers, therefore my entire area (which is weird because it's 1/4 of the entire neighborhood) is owned by Rogers while 2 streets away, I would have had the choice of either or.

 

I truly hope Rogers pushes out DOCSIS 3.1 before the summer of this year as I know many people in my area that are graphic designers, computer engineers and a couple of people work for NASA at home.  They've had to purchase multiple Gigabit lines and bond them to get better upload as they have massive files, the 2 NASA guys move TB files daily, and at 30Mbps it would take 6 days to transfer 1 file vs 4 1/2 hours with Bell, even with 100Mbps upload it would still take 9x longer.

 

I hoped someone from Rogers would comment on this, and give us some in sight into what is happening/will be happening, but unfortunately it doesn't look like that will happen.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

No, since the dedicated engineer Rogers Dave left to go work with Hitron, they did announcement a replacement, but other than greetings, nothing has been heard from the new person that I am aware of.

 

Dave and a few others were able to keep us all up to date on the DOCSIS work going on, but since Dave left, any comment from Rogers to us on the forums has gone completely silent.

 

There were announcements on timelines in the financial reports for last year and the video conference from the annual meeting, but other than that it is crickets.  Will be interesting to see what comes out in the financial reports this month.

 

Bruce

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

JohnBeaudin
I'm a Senior Contributor

BS is completely right, since RogersDave left we've been in the dark.

We had some hopes when they announced  a replacement but we never heard from him.

It's why I was so sad when RogersDave left.. I knew exactly what was coming and I was 100% right, and I don't expect things to change any time soon.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

@DeanLubakiwrote:

The only thing missing for Bell thought is a platform like the Comcast X1.
The dream would be to be able to use the Comcast X1 features on a third-party hardware like the Apple TV


Dean:  The platform under Bell is Microsoft Media just an FYI for those who may be wondering.

 

Comcast has a problem of its own making at the moment - they are the only company to have dropped the TIVO guide licensing platform that is in long term contracts with all the other providers in the US.

 

Further, Comcast's feature set is being highly contested in the courts and things like access to recordings on our PVR in particular is on hold and available only on the legacy Home Anyplace app on android and IOS.  That is why the recordings are still coming soon - not until the court cases and freeze on Comcast/Xfinity is resolved. Or the other option is that Comcast will have to build their own version from the ground up in house and avoid the need for licensing, while avoiding hitting any of the license issues.

 

Anyone remember the Apple licensing lawsuits again Microsoft and other platforms, and the suit by the original one against Apple.  It all got resolved by paying licenses, so you now see Microsoft licenses in Apple products and visa versa, and Android and Apple, and BB is still in there too.

 

The idea of the 3rd party boxes like Roku is currently in Beta in the US with a small group using a limited set of XFinity boxes.  The app has been out in the Roku store in the US for XFinity users since February and is still in Beta only.

 

There are 3 other Tivo license issues been filed as well against Comcast - all of these licensing issues are impacting the rollout of Comcast in all their non XFinity companies, like Shaw, Quebec, Rogers, and a couple in the US.

 

So the Comcast system is great in its workings, but it has a while to go, and Bell isn't done with their set top box models, their WIFI mesh, and now their speed and they haven't missed an announced deadline yet on their roll outs.  This rollout was dead on the target date of start of second quarter for all of GTA.

 

So we may see a Roku box on Comcast, but beyond the questions of Internet upload speed, which this is what the thread is about, but I felt it would help to update on your question, there is still the completion of the network upgrades, and the Rollout of Comcast still to come - Rogers is kind of eating the competitors dust at the moment, which they have been since they made the decision to go IPTV, which is what drove the whole issue of network upgrade and speed in the first place.

 

It is entertaining though.  Me, I am moving to OTT OTA, and hoping to find a lower end download with higher upload when it comes.  Can't afford the full bundle anymore - something has to go - this implementation all costs money, and every one of those licenses for all the fancy stuff like Roku access, app distritubion to other channels, the IPG, etc, all cost money to us the service consumer.

 

If one can afford all these speed levels and feature sets, all the power to them, I can't.

 

Bruce

 

Bruce

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

lurker_test
I Plan to Stick Around

Wow, great discussion. I haven't been here in a while and since my return, I have been having some bad experiences on this forum. But this discuss brought back that open community spirit.

 

RogersDave was a unicorn, a majestic, mythical beast that we may never see again. He will be surely missed. Great employees are highly sought after so it is no surprise Dave moved on.

 

As for upload, Rogers is way behind, and things turned out even worst when they went from 50Mbps to 30Mbps upload on the Gigabit plan. They literally got caught with their pants down when Bell lit up symmetrical service in some areas. How can you tell when a company is in panic? When they start having fire sale to retain customers. Rogers offering $24 and $40 Ignite 500u and 1G service respectively is telling. All in all, this is great for consumers and I can't wait to see who will be holding the flag when the dust settles.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

DeanLubaki
I Plan to Stick Around

Yup! Rogers tried to give me an additional discount but at this point they could have offered me free internet and I still would have switched.
The only thing I do not like about Bell Fibe is the lack of IPv6 support.
But well, it's not a problem for now as IPv6-only websites are not a thing yet.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

You have been missed @lurker_test  And yes, some of the experiences even to me have not been pleasant.  I walk away once in a while then come back.

 

And yes this has been a great disucussion.

 

Bruce

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Earache
I Plan to Stick Around

The fact that there has been no news about increased upload speeds on Rogers but rate increases tells me one thing.  They want to lose customers to Bell.  You want less complaints and higher customer retention, tell your customers what your plans are.

 

It will happen eventually as they will compete with Bell but the question is when?

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

RyzenFX
I'm a Reliable Contributor

There's a lot of bandwidth available on the downstream (given D3.1), and what they should be doing is introducing complementary download speed upgrades to make the price customers are  paying much more worth it. The $8 increase is very hefty and I hope that also means that they'll be executing a Node+0 approach, like Comcast.  A Node+0 approach will tremendously increase QoS as it will reduce latency and jitter (less sources of ingress).

 

I hope Rogers is taking serious steps to increase the upload speed as it is something they're always lacking. However, I feel its more important for Rogers to relieve congestion. Nobody wants to deal with that, especially if you're a gamer.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor

For me, the rate increases tell me one thing when I look at the financial quarterly statements - they really are not seeing massive increases in their customer base, they are redoing their reporting of finances to push the revenue stream related to the subsidies and the extra costs on your phone plans for wireless back to the equipment sales stream as equipment sales have actually been falling over a few quarters as less people jump on the band wagon of getting the newest and best just for the sake of having it, and customer base on Internet passby, which will needs to fall has remained stable or increased over the last few quarters - without more customers, they can produce a revenue stream to suppport the cost of less connections on each node and the cost of implementing it, falling Cable, as has been the case for a long time, increased operating costs due to network upgrades to meet the need for the new X1 models and network to support it, they need the increased case flow from rate increases, higher top up rates for overages to cover the impact of CRTC wireless code caps.

 

On a basic level, they are driving to catch up to Bell by keeping their cash flow high for upgrades to do that catch up by increasing costs all over the place.  Given falling customers in many portions of their services, the only way they can keep the cash flow up is to increase price - they have failed miserably in their upgrade to IPTV over the years, their attempt to get IPTV on the old Cisco boxes, and then onto technicolour, and they are struggling with getting the upgrades out on the Docsis system as designed.

 

As one tech outside my door doing some high level diagnostics next door told me, Rogers is going to lag until they get fibre right to the home, and then they use a modulator to swap the signal back over to the traditional cable focussed modem and wireless.

 

They also have mesh wifi coming at 10.00 per month for one mesh access point, and a new modem that he says has proven to have much better signals when combined with the mesh adapters.  The new modem will be designed for less involvement by techs, as everything in the home will be wirelessly connected to the modem (phone, cable, wifi internet, and home security), and he said the true savings of minimal to no need to support the connection to the door comes once they get the coax out of the picture, and fibre to modulator to modem/gateway.

 

So they will catch up, but expect more price increases if they don't manage to start expanding their customer numbers.

 

Bruce

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

user12343543
I Plan to Stick Around

Not really a fire sale, just trying to boost subscriber numbers for their year end financials 

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Earache
I Plan to Stick Around

I'm really disappointed there has no news regarding any movement on increased upload speed.  

 

Has anyone heard anything yet?

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@Earache, from a day or two ago, here is @RogersSergio response to the exact same question:

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/FEEDBACK-Rogers-Rocket-Wi-Fi-Modem-Firmware-Trial/m-p/...

 

 



Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

coolspot
I Plan to Stick Around

I just renewed my Gigabit package and Rogers cut my upstream from 50mbps to 30mbps to align with the new plans...

 

Very disappointed, 50mbps isn't great, but a lot better than 50mbps.

 

When are we going to see 100mbps+ upstream? Personally I would like to have at least 250 - 500mbps of upstream since I keep a lot of data in the cloud...

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

jaiden
I've Been Around

I've already started looking at alternatives.

 

I'm an IT guy and requires better upload.  Apparently Bell is not delivering fiber in my neighbourhood, otherwise without a blink I would grab it.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Elochai
I Plan to Stick Around

Will Rogers update plans upload speeds ?

 

I’m just wondering if Rogers will fellow suit to match the competition here in Newfoundland. Bell Aliant now offers the same speeds for both download and upload at the same prices as Rogers plans with the download speeds. So other words, My Rogers package is 500 Mbps download and 20Mbps upload; Bell Aliant plan is 500 Mbps download and 500 Mbps upload for the same price.

It would be nice to see Rogers do the same. Is there somewhere that you can make suggestions or work with someone on matters like these ?

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

@Elochai I doubt that you will see any movement on the upload speeds for the very near future. That will require DOCSIS 3.1 upload to be enabled.  Currently I think there are two, maybe three tests ongoing, possibly less.  Rogers has not indicated when we can expect this to happen, but, its probably two to three firmware versions down the road.  Even then, when it is implemented, who knows what upload rates Rogers will allow.  It will be interesting to see how this works out.  At the end of the day, DOCSIS 3.1 upstream can support 1 to 2 Gb/s upload, Full Duplex DOCSIS 3.1 can support 10 Gb/s download and upload.  The low rate upload is probably what the Rogers engineering staff are working on at the present time, Full Duplex spec was only completed last year, so, I don't expect to see that rolled out anywhere for another year or two, maybe more. 

 

At the present time, I think that you'll only see significantly higher data rates over cable in test labs.  There might be the odd European system running higher data rates, but, I haven't been keeping an eye on this particular issue so I'm not sure of the progress on the other side of the pond. 

 

https://www.cablelabs.com/full-duplex-docsis/

 



Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Elochai
I Plan to Stick Around
That’s really to bad, you think they would at least give you some real speeds on higher packages. 20 Mbps upload paired with a 500 Mbps download is just poor. The Gigibit is even worst at 30 Mbps, but I downgraded to the 500 Mbps package because the Gigibit plan wasn’t worth the price as most servers only pushed out about 600 Mbps that I connect too. However I run servers in Montreal, Dallas, and New York and when uploading files to a servers that can do Gigibit, you’d like to know you have a good connection speed when your paying for it that can do speeds in the 100 Mbps range at least.

Re: Let's talk Upstream Bandwidth

Qubit
I Plan to Stick Around

I was wondering if there is any particular reason why upload speeds with rogers are capped at around 30Mbps while Download speeds can get all the way to Gigabit. Is there any practical reason why this asymmetry  is so pronounced? I know that Bell Gigabit, for instance, has symmetric upload/download speeds where available.

 

 

Thanks in advance for helping me quench my curiosity!

Community Testing Lab

We’ve got an amazing opportunity to test our upcoming Gateway!

Click here to find out more!

Topic Stats