Second DOCSIS 3.1 Modem being released mid-2017?

[RyzenFX]

I was reading up on Rogers' Q4 2016 results, which were released on Janurary 26, and I happened to catch my eye on to something that points to a release of a SECOND DOCSIS 3.1 modem:

"Our adoption of the X1 platform not only includes access to the most advanced IPTV solution, but also to Comcast’s state-of-the-art customer premise equipment, including advanced DOCSIS 3.1 Wi-Fi gateways, Wi-Fi extenders, and wireless set-top boxes as well as the ability to send video to other third party companion devices (such as tablets and smartphones).

By mid-2017, Rogers plans to bring its customers the new advanced DOCSIS 3.1 Wi-Fi gateway, which is capable of delivering up to nine gigabits per second over Wi-Fi within the home, supports voice, home monitoring, and automation applications, and can act as the core in-home gateway for video and data applications."

Sounds promising! 

***Edited Labels***

[Alex4161]

@Datalink

Can you please give me more info about this issue with slow speeds.

I currently am having this problem with the CODA modem and am working with the Rogers Maintenance team to resolve it for me. If you have some suggestions, I can pass it on to them as they have detected speed issues and are looking at fixing it. Having more information can be very helpful for them to troubleshoot things.

Thanks,

Mahomed

[Datalink]

@irajacobs, can you have a look at the following post?  

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Slow-Internet-Speeds-Check-your-Security-Software/m-p/...

@Alex4161 has brought up a very good point regarding the antivirus programs slowing the data rates.  

My own thoughts are that new installs for the 4582 probably arrive with IPV6 enabled, and that possibly, the antivirus programs, or router packet scans might be resulting in slow data rates.  Running a speed test with the modem in IPV4 mode only, and another check with the modem in Dual (IPV4 and IPV6) mode with the antivirus disabled just for the speedtest should point out whether there is an issue with IPV6 packet scans causing slow rates, or if the antivirus software is impeding faster data rates for both IPV4 and IPV6 operation.  

There is always the possibility that the DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM channel has an issue with the power levels or the signal to noise ratios.  So, there are a couple of issues to check.  This last item would require a call to tech support as the DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM channel data presented in the user interface isn't correct, but, tech support has access to the correct data.  

I'm making an assumption here that if you were able to run higher data rates with the previous modem, those rates should be seen with this modem, all things being equal.  The IPV6 packet scans and antivirus programs are worth checking on. 

[irajacobs]

@Datalink I do not use active antivirus (manual scan occasionally or as-needed), so it wouldn't be that.  I switched the router to IPv4 only mode and ran another speedtest, and still only got 450Mbit down / 50 up, but this is without isolating my connection (others in the household could be using lots of bandwidth) so I can't say anything for certain.  

[RyzenFX]

It's that time of year again where Rogers releases it's financial results. Nothing too notable, but Rogers did gain 129,000 net additions in it's wireless sector which is the highest it's been in 8 years. 

Other than that, Rogers promoted their upcoming X1 IPTV Platform with a slide in their presentation stating some of the upcoming features and types of CPE that will be launching. The picture of the slide is presented below.

I find it interesting that Rogers is promoting the upcoming "solid state wireless set top box" which is the small box circled below. It seems that it will have some space for customers to record their shows, given that it contains an SSD. They are also promoting their CPE to be of "lower cost", but it might be a "lower cost" only if you bundle Internet with TV (given that it is an IPTV platform).

So it  looks like Rogers is going to be ready to launch their X1 platform in Q1 2018, since their CPE are in production.

[yyzsam]

Just read this article today and it reminded me of this thread. 

https://www.cnet.com/products/xfinity-xfi-advanced-gateway/preview/

[RogersDave]

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@RyzenFX wrote:

It seems that it will have some space for customers to record their shows, given that it contains an SSD.

---

Actually, the slide also mentions something else: "Cloud DVR". The shows are not recorded on the box itself but directly at the head-end. This means that for example swapping a box will not result in loosing all recorded shows.

The "solid state" component is for regular operation of the device.

--Dave

[BS]

@yyzsam

Thanks for posting the interesting article of where Comcast is going with gateways in their ecosystems.

This portion of the article was of interest and when we see the post on the notice in the financial reports where you will see the phrase "wall to wall coverage", it is nice to see that they are beginning to recognize that no matter how many antennas and technological advances that are put into place, there are inherent limitations with WIFI in the home and that they are acknowledging that if they are going to live up to claims of full coverage in the home.

"And if you have an especially large home, Comcast says it will offer Wi-Fi extender pods later this month to select markets with a full release coming in 2018.e, extenders are going to be necessary  or I would suggest possible not a total reliance on WIFI, but also wired options too."

It is nice to see that Comcast appears to be the first to acknowledge this limitation of WIFI and the need to extend at times. 

It would be nice if Rogers stepped up and recognized this limitation and began to support solutions for extension of coverage within the home, or at least come right out and say "we do not support troubleshooting any resolutions to limited WIFI coverage, as this is related to the structure of your home, your devices, electronic devices and a range of factors outside the control of Rogers to provide direct support to".  And then I would suggest that we are on our own, we can confer here on the forum amongst each other with our knowledge and expertise, and recognize that Rogers only gets us to the gateway, that beyond that, we are pretty much on our own.

I think that Comcast may be moving this route because the comcast, like Fibe relies on WIFI connection between TV set top devices, and the inherent issue we see with challenges in getting full connections on our devices to the Gateway for Internet, is going to arise with IPTV flowing through our homes via  WIFI from the Gateway to our TV set top box.

This also makes sense why they will go with them doing installs, same as they do the whole install installs.  My inlaws Satellite in a rural area from the blue guys now uses the same transmission model as the Fibe model and an installer came in and determined the most appropriate locations for the WIFI repeaters that transmit the signal from the Satellite box to the gateway, and to their other set top boxes in the home, and my father in law was advised that the quality of the service may be impacted if they decide to move their TV receivers from their currently optimized locations.

So, we get a taste of the directions that Comcast may take Rogers services in the future, but an unknown factor in the mix is Hitron as it is not currently listed in the approved equipment used in the US market.

Nice catch on a related piece of information from the US Comcast market - hope that Rogers gets this whole implementation done well and relatively seamlessly.  And affordable!!

[Mythen]

Hi guys;  

I read all your posts and would like to clarify a couple of things.  The X1 Cloud DVR actually does the recording right on the box and then uploads recordings to "the Cloud"  Then you  can login online and watch your recorded show from anywhere.   Also being rolled out are these   

https://www.plumewifi.com/

If it works as intended.  IT will eliminate most common WIFI issues.  

Mythen

[BS]

Interesting concept - this is basically mesh WIFI, - available from various companies such as Link sys, Google, and most other major players.  Plume was one of the earliest players.

What isn't clear is the optimization and impact of interference that is created as we have more signals within close proximity of each other - the router can smart monitor and control what is happening within its own network, but what about the neighbors.  It works well in corportate settings, but the locations are carefully optimized during setup and how close other networks are.

I see it as a solution, I basically have a partial mesh in place for years with a router and two access points, and I had issues with my neighbours, but it did improve my own network, but certain places conflicted.

Most corporate environments do not build their mesh over WIFI, they do it via ethernet to access point, and then segment for optimization for certain departments and greatest demands - plume is doing that, but it is WIFI connected.

Technology is changing so fast, and the risk is that what is a great technology on the higher end, gets dropped into the low end, plug and play without site survey and location optimization, much like the reality of our gateways - which serve two key purposes now - Internet and many connections, along with IPTV, security systems, and the challenge for the user is getting it to all work to optimum.  I see Xfinity's announcement as a move towards recognizing the need for more distributed access points in the house, but do they go plug and play leaving the home owner to flounder to optimize where to plug them in, or do they come in and set it up. Me personally, if I had a large house, I would hire someone to come in and set up the best network for my home and have them support it.

Bruce

[RogersDave]

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@Mythen wrote:

Hi guys;  

I read all your posts and would like to clarify a couple of things.  The X1 Cloud DVR actually does the recording right on the box and then uploads recordings to "the Cloud"  Then you  can login online and watch your recorded show from anywhere.

---

This is called a hybrid QAM-IP model and is what Comcast uses. They have in the home a XG2 device which acts as a main PVR with tuner along with companion devices Xid and Xi5 that are IP based over Ethernet or MoCA.

In the "all-IP" version of the solution, Cloud DVR is implemented directly in the cloud and there are no local recording at all because none of the STB have a QAM tuner.

--Dave

[Mythen]

Can't say for sure if I have ever come across the "all Ip" model. Just the one you call the hybrid

[wayner92]

I know that I am in the minority on this but all I want from Rogers is fast reliable internet service to a demarc point in my house and that point is likely to be the worst place in my house for a WAP since it is in a corner of my basement.  I don't want Rogers to provide my network router/gateway/firewall and I don't want Rogers to provide me with Wifi. I will provide my own prosumer devices to do that - my house is wired with CAT-6 and I will put WAPs in the optimal spots in (or outside) of my house.

So just give me a reliable cable modem and leave it at that.

[gp-se]

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@wayner92 wrote:

I know that I am in the minority on this but all I want from Rogers is fast reliable internet service to a demarc point in my house and that point is likely to be the worst place in my house for a WAP since it is in a corner of my basement.  I don't want Rogers to provide my network router/gateway/firewall and I don't want Rogers to provide me with Wifi. I will provide my own prosumer devices to do that - my house is wired with CAT-6 and I will put WAPs in the optimal spots in (or outside) of my house.

So just give me a reliable cable modem and leave it at that.

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@wayner92

The current Rogers Gateways operate just fine in bridge mode. I like having the Gateway, because for a power user like myself I can set it in Bridge mode and run whatever router/access point I want. But for my parents and friends who aren't technical they can leave it in Gateway mode and everything "just works"

[Vikentieff]

I think we now know how it's going to look like:

https://www.fiercecable.com/cable/comcast-begins-national-rollout-d-3-1-gateways

http://booredatwork.com/xfinity-night-introducing-xfi/

"Comcast engineered the device. has commissioned two vendors to create separate versions: Arris will build one using Intel silicone, while Technicolor will manufacture another using Broadcom chips. 

The new gateway will  have a 160 MHz-capable 8x8 Wi-Fi antenna array, Mu-MiMo (Multi-user, Multi-input, Multi-output) technology, and a combination of specialized IoT radios."

The little TV box is Pace PX051AEI Xi5 it seems (http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/X1/Xi5-TV-Box/td-p/2860100)

I'm not sure if it's still true, but aside from not being 4K/Ultra HD capable as per comcast's FAQ, it also requires a bigger X1 dvr box (so basically a secondary device), even though comcast calls it a "cloud dvr".

So if rumors are true and Rogers is testing their own software on this hot mess of a set, I could imagine the final result wont be pretty anytime soon.

[Gdkitty]

Interesting, Pace.

Some of the first rogers boxes, pre the SA boxes, were often Pace.
(and were all EOL'd quite a number of years ago)

[Vikentieff]

---

@Gdkitty wrote:

Interesting, Pace.

Some of the first rogers boxes, pre the SA boxes, were often Pace.
(and were all EOL'd quite a number of years ago)

---

Yeah I remember having one in 2007 or so, they replaced it with SA later on, then CISCO bought them. I had no idea they are still around. Considering they are also using Plume wifi pods as range extenders, it's going to be one heck of a mix hardware-wise. I just hope rogers is smart-enough not to use their in-house software and just re-brand comcast's for the sake of faster roll-out and updates.

Also, if the part about requiring the actual big box dvr is true (the picture of this ugly beast is in one of the links I posted), then it's kinda defeats the purpose and is still behind competitors' all-wireless implementation, at least on paper.

[RyzenFX]

From the Q4 2017 financial results, I have dug up some information regarding the future look at how they want to their services to be accessed:

As you can see, Rogers is trying to reduce the number of devices required to access it's services by making them all available through one device: the modem. This means that they want to make all their services available through IP- this is already being seen in the highly anticipated release of their Ignite TV product (formerly called the X1 IPTV product).  With more services being migrated to IP, more internet bandwidth will be freed which will allow them to activate newer channels to be used for the downlink and uplink. 

With regards to network upgrades, Rogers has also stated that they have started upgrading their HFC network in the Q4'17 quarter:

This quarter, we began upgrading our hybrid fibre-coaxial infrastructure with additional fibre deployments and further DOCSIS technology enhancements. These deployments and enhancements will lower the number of homes passed per node and incorporate the latest technologies to help deliver more bandwidth and an even more reliable customer experience.

Rogers is also trying to reduce the number of homes passed per node, meaning that they want to deliver their services to more homes. Upload speeds has been a a major bottleneck for Rogers due to the DOCSIS architecture, however OFDMA should be on the horizon and it's been hinted that Rogers will be offering upload speeds >30Mbps due to this upgrade. 

Ignite TV will also have a "full commercial launch" later this year.

[Datalink]

"This quarter, we began upgrading our hybrid fibre-coaxial infrastructure with additional fibre deployments and further DOCSIS technology enhancements. These deployments and enhancements will lower the number of homes passed per node and incorporate the latest technologies to help deliver more bandwidth and an even more reliable customer experience. "

That reduced node loading has been underway for at least a couple of years now.  I think the target number of homes per node is either 500 or 1000.  I believe its the lower, 500 home number but, don't quote me on that one. 

[Mythen]

If this X1 platform is the exact same as Comcast platform then it entirely uses iptv. So the extra bandwidth they are freeing up would be needed. Unless it's going to be some kind of hybrid version. Only time will tell

[RyzenFX]

@Datalink

Yeah I won't quote you on that one, but yeah it should be 500 nodes/home.  I'm really eager to know when OFDMA will be released so hopefully @RogersBob will update us on the status on that.

[JohnBeaudin]

Latest reply was from @RogersDave in November,  at that time he said Q1 2018 but perhaps @RogersBob have a more accurate date of the D3.1 Upload Rollout?