Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

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Qubit
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 53

Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Hello! I recently purchased a house after a life of living in apartments :).

 

I have a question about the wiring of the house. IT seems that the Rogers coax line comes in through the basement. That basement is also on the other side of the house from a room where I need to have a computer hardwired through a router that connects to the Rogers modem.

 

I have Gigabit internet (no TV or anything else, Just internet), and the house Coax wiring in the walls is RG-59U. This old cable does reach the room where I would need the router to be. It is my understanding that this is not enough to support Gigabit internet. Am I correct?

 

If I am correct I wonder if you know how difficult and expensive it is to rewire the house (replace the old RG-59U with a better more modern coax) and whether regular electricians do it or what kind of contractors I should look for.

 

Thanks!

 

*** Edited Labels ***

 

 

Datalink
Resident Expert
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Posts: 7,368

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

@Qubit don't give up on the idea of using that RG-59.  It won't be ideal, but, it just might work in this case.  RG-59 has higher losses compared to RG-6, as can be seen further down on this page:

 

https://sewelldirect.com/blogs/learning-center/what-is-the-difference-between-rg59-and-rg6

 

Rogers is using DOCSIS 3.1 modems and along with that an Orthogonal Frequency Domain Modulation (OFDM) channel on the downstream side.  That runs across the network.  Rogers has also introduced an Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiple Access on the upstream side and is slowly rolling that out across the network.  

 

The traditional Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM) downstream channels run from 270 Mhz up to approx 900 Mhz.  The OFDM downstream channel runs from 350 Mhz up to 450 Mhz.  

 

Using the theory that any modem you receive will be using the OFDM downstream and QAM and OFDMA upstream, that puts the typical frequency range from 5 Mhz to 450 Mhz, although the higher QAM channels will be present as well.  You could expect to see an additional 3.5 dB of losses at 450Mhz with RG-59 compared to RG-6.  That might not be a problem if the inbound downstream signal level at the demarcation point outside of the home was higher than 0 dBmV.  That's the real question as it would determine if you could still use RG-59 for cable purposes these days.  

 

The upstream QAM and OFDMA channels run in the 5 to 42 Mhz range where RG-59 has about a 1 dB higher loss when compared to RG-6, so, that's not very much in the grand scheme of things.

 

So, I wouldn't give up at this point.  This is one of those things that you wouldn't know until you're there.  The modems are capable of measuring the signal levels, although the OFDM and OFMDA data isn't presented to the end user, which is unfortunate.  But, Tech Support Level II and the forum moderators also have access to that data.  Its possible to ballpark the OFDM and OFDMA data by looking at the QAM channel data, but, to be exact you would need one of the two support levels to have a look at the data. 

 

Electricians should be able to fish the cable, just depends on how much of a challenge it might be.  This would still be a good thing to do no matter what.  Food for thought, there are two levels of modems, the older "legacy" CODA-4582 and CGNxxxx modems  which supports gigabit data rates, and the newer XB6 and XB7 modems which supports Rogers (Comcast) Ignite TV service.  The days of separate modems or cable boxes which would include a cable based internet modem, cable based tv set top box, and a cable based home phone modem are gone, or, should I say, Rogers is attempting to push them out the door as fast as possible.  The cable based "legacy" systems are still around, but you wouldn't be able to access them.  Now, the Ignite TV system uses a single modem, which is cable connected, but it supports internet, tv and Home Phone, all off of the single modem.  So, in theory, now what you need is a single RG-6 cable run to somewhere in the house, ethernet cabling and house telephone cabling.  The XB6 and XB7 support tv set top boxes via ethernet and wifi, with emphsis on wifi.  

 

You could look around for an electrician to do this or possibly a Home Telecon installer.  Rogers tech will only run cables along the baseboard, so, if you're looking to fish a cable, you'll have to find your own contractor or technician to do this.  

 

If you're going to go with Rogers, then for the present time you only need a single RG-6 cable.  Ethernet cabling would be a useful addition as well.  

 

Is your basement totally finished, which could make fishing cables rather difficult?

 

Edit:  You might require a tech visit to inspect the external NID (covered box) and disconnect any cables that might be connected at that point.  On some, probably many older homes, cables were run externally, so there might be a splitter installed in the NID.  If so, it will drop the signal level by at least 3.5 dB, possibly more.  For your installation, with a single run, any splitter that might be installed, either external or internally, should be replaced with single F-81 connector to connect the external RG-6 cable to the internal RG-59 cable.  They look like this:

 

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ideal-3ghz-f-splice-adapter-10-pack-/1000751479

 

That connector should also replace the existing connectors that are in the wallplates around the home, at least for the wallplates that will be in use.  



Qubit
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 53

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Thank you very much for the detailed answer! It is much appreciated. My modem for the Gigabit internet is the Hitron CODA modem (the white tall one, not sure if it uses DOCSIS 3.1or not)

 

I guess then I won't know until after the install from Rogers. I am going to look into possible cable fishing contractors.

 

Really helpful answer!

Datalink
Resident Expert
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Posts: 7,368

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

@Qubit please have a look at the note that I just added to my last post.  

 

That CODA-4582 is a DOCSIS 3.1 modem and it's the same modem that I've been using for the last 4+ years.  It does use the OFDM downstream channel and in those areas where an OFDMA upstream channel is in use, it uses that upstream channel as well.  

 

Have a look at your existing cables and see if you can determine if there is only one single cable that runs into the house that runs into an old splitter.  That would be ideal as you would only have to replace the existing splitter with an F-81 connector.  I'd also look carefully at the outside NID to see if there is any sign of more cables that run out of the box to some entry point on the outside of the house.  You might still need a tech visit to inspect the external NID and see if there's a splitter installed for some strange reason.  There shouldn't be, but I wouldn't assume that's the case. 



Pauly
Resident Expert
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Posts: 2,937

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

your lucky you have coax, my house is under 10 years old and there is no coax wires anywhere in the house, if i want rogers internet, they would have to run wires along my beautiful baseboards and door framing.


Qubit
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 53

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Hello and Thanks again! I am currently a bit puzzled because I cannot see where the rogers cable comes into the house. All the cables seem to be in the basement but there are at least three candidates for it. Is there any particular labelling or text on the plastic cover of the cable from Rogers that makes it into the house? any way to identify it?

 

Thanks again!

RogersTony
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1,280

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Hello, @Qubit

 

Thank you for posting your concern in the community!

 

I can understand how difficult it can be to determine where the main coaxial cable comes into your home. 

 

On the outside of your home are you able to locate a grey plastic box that was installed by Rogers? This is also known as the CSE or the demarcation point which is where the wire from outside enters your home. The main coaxial line is most likely directly below this box inside of your basement.

 

If you could provide us with some pictures of the basement where the coaxial wires are coming in as well as the exterior wall where the CSE or demarcation point is located. This will help us and the community determine which is the main coaxial cable feeding your home.

 

We look forward to helping you with this. 🙂

 

RogersTony

Qubit
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 53

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Hello everyone,

 

I thought I'd provide a quick update. IN the end they sent a technician who found the cable. The technician installed the ignite router (white, only one bright white light on top, smaller than my former router).

 

However, the speeds of my gigabit internet are very underwhelming in my new home. 200+ download and 10+ upload on both ethernet wired connection and wifi. I called technical support, they ran some tests and said they don't see the problem so they created a "ticket" I was told somebody will call me in the next couple of days... Not sure what to expect here. Would appreciate any insight from the knowledgeable people here 🙂

Gdkitty
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,333

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Could you get us the exact model of the modem?  
May help in troubleshooting.

And what/where were you doing the speed test on?

 



Datalink
Resident Expert
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Posts: 7,368

Re: Question about Coax wiring of newly bought home

Yup, we'll need more info to possibly sort this out.  Is the modem connected to the RG-59 cable, or is the modem in the basement connected to the end of an RG-6 cable.  

 

Just as a comment, if this is a new home, why did the builder run RG-59 instead of RG-6.  RG-59 is suitable for antenna systems, not for cable systems.  

 

If the modem is connected to the RG-59 run, can you have a look at the place where the cable is joined to the incoming RG-6 cable, to see how its connected.  Did the tech use a splitter, and if so, can you grab the model number off of the splitter.  It will be on the face of the splitter.  The tech should have used an F-81 connector which looks like this:

 

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ideal-3ghz-f-splice-adapter-10-pack-/1000751479

 

A splitter would drop the signal levels, which, combined with the RG-59 would be a bad idea due to the signal losss in the higher frequencies with RG-59 cable. 

 

How are you connecting to the modem, via ethernet using the modem's LAN IP address, or via the wifi app.  If you use the wifi app, you will lose control over the wifi channels as Rogers backend system will grab control over the wifi channels and other settings.  Direct access to the modem should prevent that, but there's no guarantee.  

 

Losing control over the wifi channels will result in using the lower 5 Ghz channels which run 200 milli-watts.  The higher channels (149 to 161) run 1 watt, so, you'll see a greater operating range from the modem and higher data rates via wifi.