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Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Datalink
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Ok, now for a little technical info that might help.  

First and foremost the CGN3ACR has been accessed by using 192.168.100.1 when the modem is operating in Bridge mode.  So, it is possible in that case to access the DOCSIS WAN signal level and signal to noise ratio data, which is useful for troubleshooting problems.  The CGN3 no longer has that capability as of the firmware update issued in Dec 2014.  Hopefully it will return in a future firmware version.  

It is possible apparently, to mix and match the two modems between the previous Hybrid plans and the new plans.  The CGN3 will work and is accepted for use on the new plans.  The CGN3ACR will work on the Hybrid plans, and after reading through this post, some people may decide to go that route to solve some of the problems with the CGN3.  

The cost to rent the CGN3 under the Hybrid plan is $12.00.
The cost to rent the CGN3ACR under the Hybrid plan is apparently $14.00.

Looking at the Wifi Alliance site, there is a CGN3 and CGNV4 listed. Looking at the U.S. FCC site, there are a number of CGN modems listed, which I have not had time to review yet.  I suspect, given that there is only one CGNV4 shown at the Wifi Alliance site, that the FCC CGNXX submissions are all variations on a theme, so, for example for Rogers, the V4 modem is called the CNG3ACR (FCC ID ??), at Shaw, it appears that its titled the CGNM-2250 (FCC ID: CGNM ?).

The  Industry Canada database contains the following CGNxxx devices:

Model              Certification Number     Approval Date
CGN-RES       10778A-CGN                2013-04-18
CGN2              10778A-CGN2ROG     2013-01-16
CGN2-ROG    10778A-CGN2ROG      2013-09-25
CGN3             10778A-CGN31A          2013-07-17
CGNM            10778A-CGNM             2014-06-12
CGNM-2250   10778A-CGNM             2014-09-10  

So, looking at all of the available sources it would appear that the Rogers CGN3ACR is the most likely the CGNM as listed by Industry Canada, and the Shaw CGNM-2250 is most likely the CGNM-2250 as listed by Industry Canada.  

If anyone is interested in looking at the details, you can run a search at:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/reltel/srch/nwRdSrch.do?lang=eng

Enter Hitron Technologies in the Company name window and CGN in the Model window.

What all of this points to is that there is only one developed model of the CGNV4, and that the wifi alliance certification is most likely applicable to both Rogers and Shaw versions of the modem.

If that is the case, then it appears that there are a couple of very good reasons why some people might, or should be interested.  One is the appearance of 802.11ac on the modem, so for those individuals who might have 802.11ac devices and didn't want to go out and buy a router to support it, switching to this modem should yield higher data rates to those devices.

For anyone who absolutely depends on running a 2.4 Ghz wifi network, the CGNV4 has been tested and certified for 40 Mhz operation on 2.4 Ghz networks with "coexistence mechanisms".  What that means is that anyone who owns a mixed variety of devices, laptops, tablets, USB wifi dongles etc should now see the maximum data rates for all of those devices when they are all running simultaneously on the network.  The CGN3 is known to have problems with mixed device capabilities and it will restrict both, the number of data streams in use and the co-channel bonding required for 40 Mhz wide channel operation.  That restriction limits all device data rates to the rate of the slowest device on the network.  That can be easily seen if you use a USB Wifi dongle in a mixed network.  Low cost dongles can or will be single channel only with limited data rates, as opposed to dual antenna, dual data stream laptops, capable of running at much higher data rates.  This has yet to be proven explicitly with this modem as of yet, but, for anyone who recognizes that they are in this particular situation, exchanging the current CGN3 for the CGN3ACR would be a very interesting test.  If anyone does this, please post your results.

Finally the CGNV4 is shown as supporting concurrent operation of both 2.4 and 5 Ghz networks whereas the CGN3 certificate does not show that.  So, if you use both networks simultaneously and you have had trouble with the modem, perhaps this AC version modem will solve those problems.  Again, if anyone does trade in for this purpose, please post your results.  

Here are the Hitron certification results from the Wifi Alliance web site for anyone interested.  If you read through these, and then read through the certification for an Asus or Netgear router for example, you would see how very simple these modems are in comparison.  There is more data on the certificates, but I've listed the main parts from the certificates.


https://www.wi-fi.org/product-finder-results?keywords=hitron&op=Search&form_build_id=form-HtKnxrPbEd...


CGNV4

Date of Last Certification January 27, 2014

Wi-Fi CERTIFIED™ n
2.4 GHz, 5 GHz - Concurrent
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Short Guard Interval
TX A-MPDU
40 MHz operation in 2.4 GHz, with coexistence mechanisms
40 MHz operation in 5 GHz
RIFS Test

Wi-Fi CERTIFIED™ ac
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz



CGN3-ROG

Date of Last Certification September 05, 2013

Frequency Bands: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz - Switchable

2.4 GHz, 5 GHz - Switchable
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz

 



For anyone interested, here is the U.S. FCC search page that can be used to locate reports for the Hitron Technologies devices.  To run a search, type in Hitron Technologies into the Applicant Name entry window and hit the enter key.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm?calledFromFrame=N


So, that's the background info that the specs don't detail.  Small details, but the concurrent network and co-existence mechanisms for 2.4 Ghz networks are important.  If anyone is having issues with wifi networks run by the CGN3, consider what I have presented above as food for thought in exchanging your modem or moving to the newer plans along with the CGN3ACR.

 

 

***Edited Labels***



34 REPLIES 34

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

jszentir
I'm a Regular

Regarding the 2.4GHZ band on the new CGN3ACR, the bandwidth setting defaults to 20MHZ out of the box as well as on a factory reset.  Tech support can change the setting to 20/40 (above or below) on the Wireless Advanced Tab (only tech support can see this tab)... doesn't seem to help... have not been able to achieve a 40MHZ bandwidth connection on any WIFI device standalone i.e. excellent RSSI and nothing else connected.  In my case, the CGN3 performed better on the 2.4GHZ band... at least 20/40 was the default and 40 worked some of the time.  I would stick with the CGN3 for 2.4GHZ, jmho.

 

The CGN3ACR is the CGNM as per the label on the back of the device.  Seems like the intent was to provide better performance on the 5GHZ band. 

 

Lets see if anyone else has the same feedback.

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Just swapped the CGN3ACR back to a CGN3 ... speed back to normal at 70 to 80+ mbps on 2.4GHZ with an n300 connected at 144.5 mpbs (20 MHZ bandwidth), right out of the box, no changes to settings... 

 

I barely got more than 40 mpbs out of the CGN3ACR on the 2.4GHZ band, same n300 device, same connection speed of 144.5... sometimes only 4 bars out of 5 on the connection, whereas the CGN3 always had and still reads 5 bars consistently

 

sad but true

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

mozerd
I Plan to Stick Around

@wayner92 wrote:

By the way, if anyone has a large house and wants to set up a prosumer Wifi network to leverage off of your Rogers internet service I would highly recommend the Ubiquity Unifi line of WAPs.  These cost about $100 each and look rather like smoke detectors and are meant to be ceiling mounted.  They are powered by PoE and they come with PoE injectors if you don't have that in a switch.

 

They come with good software that allows you to manage your network, see who is connected, set up Guest accounts, etc.


I've tested some UBNT gear like the ERL and the UAP-AC. I also opened up the gear I was testing and was dismayed by the quality of the internal components used. The ERL performed to my satisfaction during the test period but the internals shocked me so I would not trust the gear. The UAP=AC performance was mediocre at best for an AC device. I for one cannot recommend UBNT based on the poor quality of the internals and the dismal performance of the UAP-AC -- the only positive that I can offer for the UAP-AC is the controller software --- it works well and does a very good job managing multiple UBNT AP's.

David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

gbw7223
I've Been Here Awhile

Apologies if this has been covered already, but I did not see it elsewhere...

 

I recently got the new "Rocket wifi modem" (CGN3ACR) and I notice there are 2 USB ports at the back. Can I use one of these for an external HDD whose contents would then be available on our home network? We have 2 desktops (ethernet connected to the modem/router), and various wireless devices (tablets, etc.)

 

Last year I bought a 3TB WD external drive, which is connected to one of the desktops - I know, should have got a proper NAS device.

My perhaps naive thought now is that, by connecting it to the CGN3ACR USB port, I could access it across the network... voila, it becomes a (sort of) NAS??

 

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Eh.. yes, kind of.

many of these devices.. they are natoriously not always that easy to connect to.

I know via PC, you should be able to connect/map a drive to it, via an SMB share..... but other devices, maybe not so much? (tablets/phones dont always have the same connectvitity options as a PC, etc).

 

NAS or NAS like networkable hard drives, often will set up standard windows shares where you can easily browse to them, and will have other sharing options like DLNA, etc for other devices as well.
(or, leaving them connected to a PC which does the same... but requires the PC being on.)

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

tgif
I've Been Around

I am currently using the CGN3 and it is NOT compatible with my current voip.

 

Hitron CGN3 (Rogers Advanced WiFi Modem)

Current Status: Not Compatible
Recommendation: Replace Device or Bridge it to a compatible router.
Comments:
The router feature of this device lacks the ability to disable SIP ALG and is not compatible with VoIP. We recommend that it be replaced with a standalone modem and router that is compatible, or that it be bridged to a router is compatible. We DO NOT recommend placing a phone on the DMZ of this decvice as it would compromise the security of the phone.

 

Is the new CGN3ACR more programable for voip systems?  Does it have controls for SIP and ALG?

 

Tom Gifford in Ottawa

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Gdkitty
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

The CGN3ACR is the exact same firmware, etc as the CGN3.. so it would act exactly the same.
Its really the NAT which is effecting these things.

SOME people have had luck (it may vary from VIOP to VIOP provider), with using port forwarding and being able to use the device fine.

All in all.. the recomendation there of using bridge mode, with your own 3rd party router is BEST solution.
From the VOIP then likely working without issue..
And then that just general routing/switching will likely be much faster, as well as better wireless performance.

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Datalink
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

You need to call tech support and have them disable the SIP ALG setting.  Its one of those settings that are accessible to the user on third party routers. 

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/218...

 



Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

mozerd
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink wrote:

First and foremost the CGN3ACR has been accessed by using 192.168.100.1 when the modem is operating in Bridge mode.  So, it is possible in that case to access the DOCSIS WAN signal level and signal to noise ratio data, which is useful for troubleshooting problems.  The CGN3 no longer has that capability as of the firmware update issued in Dec 2014.  Hopefully it will return in a future firmware version.  

This is not my experience with the CGN3ACR.

 

I have been with Rogers for a very long time and have always been able to reach 192.168.100.1 utilizing a variety of Cable Modems or cable Gateways in bridge mode [within my networked environment] but not so with the Hitron CGN3ACR or the CGN3

 

I know that 192.168.100.1 does work if I connect a 2nd PC to a secondary switch port on the CGN3ACR bridged .

 

To make sure its not my Firewall [ZyXEL ZyWALL USG100] and it's latest firmware --- I tested against a CISCO DPC3825 in bridge mode and had no problem accessing 192.168.100.1 ---  it is my opinion that Hitron have not fixed the 192,168.100.1 access issue in either models.

 

David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Ok, so 192.168.100.1 does work if you connect directly to the second port but not if you connect through the firewall?  Have a look at this post from DSLReports.  Maybe you need to establish a firewall rule:

 

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29900103-Modem-Router-Rogers-New-Internet-modem-CGN3ACR-~start=120

 



Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

mozerd
I Plan to Stick Around
No firewall rules needed ... Hitron just needs to fix the way it advertises 192.168.100.1 ...

Perhaps Hitron needs to take a lesson from CISCO, Motorola, etc. Because they do it correctly. That was the whole point of my previouse post.
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

mozerd
I Plan to Stick Around
You will be pleased to learn that with the latest firmware upgrade HITRON fixed the 192.168.100.1 bug.

As of today, March 25, 2015, in bridge mode the login page now works properly.
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

senordd
I Plan to Stick Around

Any improvements with wifi range?  I insisted on staying on my hybrid plan instead of upgrading to the ignite plans when I renewed earlier this month.  I use the CGN3 as a stand alone because when I attempted to connect it to my dlink router, my speeds on wifi would go down to 10mbps dispite the fact that it's 5ghz router. Never could figure out why and gave up on it.

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

While i dont have one.. i would DOUBT it.. unless they used a really different antenna in it.

Its still an internal antenna.

(as well, the CGN3ACR is not NEEDED for the new ignite plans, you can use a CGN3 just fine)

 

 

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