IPG Inconsistencies

[57]

I have a 9865 (NB3) running Navigatr firmware and I also utilize AnyPlace Web "Manage PVR", as well as RAPTV on my iPad. The Rogers IPG has never been very good, but most of the time it records most of my scheduled recordings. Since January 2016 (post Navigatr?) the IPG has become increasingly less reliable.  Here's a list of recent issues.

1. Before the change to DST the IPG was "incorrect" by one hour for all the scheduled recordings after the time change, as well as the programmes shown in the guide the following week. This is very confusing for people. It's also unnecessary since SARA firmware doesn't do this (I also have 8300HD PVRs.)

2. After the change to DST, programmes that were recorded on the PVR prior to the time change showed as being recorded at times different from when they were actually recorded.  Not only that, but the "recording time" would be different depending on which way you accessed the information. On the PVR itself it would be off by 1 hour. On AnyPlace it would be off by 5 hours. On RAPTV it would be off by 4 hours.

3. This week the daily recordings don't seem to be scheduling properly.  Only 1-2 days instead of 4-5. (And yes, I am aware that sometimes the guide "catches up" with these sorts of issues, but this week it hasn't and recordings have been missed because of it)

4.  I have a scheduled series recording for "Edwardian Farm" on TVO 2AM Tuesday.  The Navigatr IPG shows the programme as "Wartime Farm" with the description for an Edwardian Farm episode.  On AnyPlace or RAPTV it shows as "Edwardian Farm".  If I hadn't noticed, I would have missed recording it on my PVR due to a totally incorrect title on the 9865 IPG.

5. The PVR/AnyPlace/RAPTV uses "name based recording". The problem is that the names of the programmes are constantly changing.  This means that series recordings are missed even if one letter of the name of the programme changes. This has been going on for roughly 11 years now.  As an example, Mercer Report may become The Mercer Report.   "The Fifth Estate" has been listed about 3-4 different ways during the past 2 months!  Rogers, get your IPG provider to give us consistent programme titles. Or write proper firmware that would circumvent these issues. TiVo knows how to...

6. Many of the programmes have "generic" information in the programme description instead of what's actually airing.  For example instead of stating who the guest is on "Mansbridge One on One" it simply states that "Peter interviews Canadians"  There are similar examples for almost all interview programming and late night programming.  I do understand that this information is not always available, but it usually is and the IPG provider is missing information that's available in many places on the web.

7. Currently on Smithsonian Channel (540).  It shows TBA for the entire week.  This happens often on this and other channels..

8. For the Formula One race this weekend, there were several pre and post-race programmes. When I set these to record they showed properly on the 9865, however, on AnyPlace/RAPTV they showed totally incorrectly - as NCAA basketball or SportsCentre.  How weird is that?

9. The "new" tag that is supposed to indicate new programming is often not correct. It's often missing from new programming or it's shown as new when a programme is a repeat. (and yes I am aware that "new" is relative to that particular channel)

10. The user experience is totally different depending on which device, firmware, software, computer, browser you're using.  We should be able to see the same thing whether we're looking at the IPG or recordings at the PVR, from our computer, with our tablet, etc. However, the experience is totally different with different information showing. For example on the PVR, a programme description may show the year of production, while AnyPlace doesn't show it, or vice versa. Or the programme title/description could be competely different.  It's almost impossible for an average user to comprehend all these differences when someone like me with 14 years of heavy Rogers IPG experience and extensive experience on forums, has difficulty.

The above is but a short list of IPG problems. There are many more that I've recorded over the years, but I thought this would suffice to give Rogers some feedback regarding their IPG, which has become increasingly unreliable.  You're driving away your customers with these sorts of problems, without even mentioning Navigatr.

*** Edited Labels ***

[RogersArthur]

Hi @57

Thank you for your patience, we really appreciate your great insights and detailed information. Your feedback is very interesting, you gave some good points that will definitely shed some light on any confusion about the IPG (Iterative Program Guide). Also help those in the right position looking for information on how to improve the guide and any add-on tools or apps.

Thank you for sharing it with the Community!
RogersArthur

[57]

A few more issues with the IPG this week. There are usually a couple, but this week is worse.

1. I set a recording for a Twilight Zone episode airing on Friday at 9AM Space Channel. When I reviewed the scheduled recordings on AnyPlace/RAPTV, or the PVR itself, there was also a recording for Monday at 9:30 - half way through the airing of a completely different episode. I thought I had somehow made a mistake and deleted the recording. Tried again and the same thing happened, so I let it go ahead and the PVR recorded the last half of the Monday episode. One of the weirder things the IPG has done.

2. Tried recording the premiere of Sensitive Skin early Monday morning on HBO. It missed the first few minutes, which very rarely happens - I usually extend recordings on HBO/TMN by 5 minutes at the end due to minor timing issues, but I don't recall missing a beginning.

3. Sensitive Skin is airing all week, but the descriptions are all over the map and incorrect. Some descriptions are for the 2007 BBC series, etc.

4. The "Pictures" on the tiles in the PVR are for the Joanna Lumley Sensitive Skin series, not the Canadian series. Also, there are two different pictures - hardly useful.  These pictures are often incorrect, or inconsistent or missing.

5. I record Grand Designs daily 3PM on CBC. The Tuesday episode is not showing in the series recording list - this, or something similar, has happened before, so I set a single recording on a different CBC channel to cover this instance.

6. One of the F1 pre-race programmes (Drivers' Parade?) didn't record. As long as I get the race I'm satisfied, it was just weird that it didn't record and still showed in the "Scheduled list" afterwards. That rarely happens to me - perhaps there was a name change or something else last minute. I noticed that the 4PM repeat of the Race was changed after I set a recording a few days earlier - I noticed this on AnyPlace since I don't record "Basketball", which was showing on many channels.

Not ready for prime time, but these recordings were not at prime time.  

I rarely had these issues before early this year, but now have something that I need to work around almost every week. Not sure if this is connected to Navigatr, or something else that Rogers has managed to mess up. I never used to have to "monitor" AnyPlace almost every day to ensure that my programming is recorded. I can't imagine how people attempt to do this using Navigatr on the PVR.

[57]

As a follow up to item 1 in the post above, Twilight Zone is screwy again this week.  The IPG says one thing, but the recorded programmes are different.  At this time there is nothing shown at all for Channel 575 Space next week, not even TBA on AnyPlace - just blank space. Thanks Rogers.  Your IPG is getting more and more useless.

I believe nothing is showing for one of the HiFi (Blue Ant) channels again, except TBA.  Happens all the time recently.  I believe it's "Love Nature", but sometimes it's "HiFi", RadX or Smithsonian.   Take your pick this week.

As mentioned previously in this and other threads. The IPG says one thing in AnyPlace, but something totally different on the PVR itself.  Makes scheduling pretty difficult when you have to guess what's going to be airing.

I've been recording "The Night Manager", but the descriptions are for something else altogether sometimes.  Again, useless unless you "know".

[molly222]

Hi @57

You're right the guide has always been bad, but lately it's atrocious.  Just checked both my NB2 and NB3 and there is "no information" in the guide as of 6:00 a.m. this Sunday for the rest of the week for Space and the Comedy network.  Other channels such as Bravo, Much Music, CMT, Spark, have spotty info starting Sunday and almost no information as of Tuesday.  Never seen it this bad before.  Of course if it doesn't "fix itself" by the time you are recording, you're out of luck...you can't record off of "no information"...I've had this happen with Spark and Bravo before.

I don't use the Rogers app...I couldn't deal with another Rogers product and all it's problems.  I use Zap to it on my tablet...is always 99% correct.  I compare it to the Rogers guide and what I've got set to record, any discrepancies I go by the Zap to it info and write it down...i.e. if Rogers says "NCIS" and Zap to it says "Motive" (and Motive is the one I want to record)...I'll set the PVR to record "NCIS", write it down so I can find it in the tiles later, and I end up with my Motive recording.  

The whole thing is a real pain and I don't understand why they can't get better guide info when obviously other companies can.  But this "No information" nonsense is unacceptable...I've had a few instances where the "No information" was not corrected by the time the shows were set to air and could not record them...on Bravo and Spark...don't know what the answer is.  Been complaining for months...getting worse instead of better.

[Customer01]

Hello Rogers, do you plan to sort any of this out?  Or not?  I'd like to know if I can expect any improvement, since I am considering moving my services to your competitor.

[RogersMoin]

Hello, All

We continuously pass on the feedback provided here in the Community to the supporting groups for the improvements of the services and products. We appreciate your patience while we work towards the improvements, thank you for all the feedback. 

Thanks,

RogersMoin

[User14]

As @57 listed about 16 problems with the Interactive Program Guide (IPG), I can add one more to the list.

It is related to the NB3 when you schedule a series of recordings.  Somehow our NB3 has a shadow series being recorded for the "Person of Interest" at 10pm on Channel 518 for our area . How it got there I do not know.  I may have pulled the plug while it was recording. 

When you delete the recorded program, the tile disappears completely. The tile does not show up at the bottom of the recordings list where the other series recordings are located.

The tile and recorded program reappear a week later for the next scheduled recording, but the picture in the tile is for the program "Motive".   

Please explain why this is happening? I too would like an estimate for when you plan to fix these problems.

If you can not provide an estimate could you at least tell clients about these issues so that customers do not try rebooting their PVR or changing their PVR to resolve these internal IPG software bugs. 

[molly222]

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@RogersMoin wrote:

Hello, All

We continuously pass on the feedback provided here in the Community to the supporting groups for the improvements of the services and products. We appreciate your patience while we work towards the improvements, thank you for all the feedback. 

Thanks,

RogersMoin

---

RogersMoin...while I appreciate that you responsed to our posts, a failure to provide information in the guide, which results in a failure in being able to use our PVR to record, should not be considered an area for improvement, this is a failure in the service that we pay for.  As of right now, there is no guide information for space, much music, and a few others as of Sunday night.  When you start looking at Monday, Tuesday, you see a drop of information for MANY other channels such as Bravo, Spark, CMT, and others.  And looking at Thursday night is "no information" for all channels.  I'm not talking about the occassional time block of "no information"...I'm referring to DAYS of no information.  This has been happening on and off since the latest Navigatr update...May 10th in my area.  I pay extra for the Space channel, I pay for a PVR...I would like to record a program on Space on Sunday night (two days away).  But I can't.  Did I get a rebate for my problems...yes.  Would I rather have no rebate and a service that works...yes.

FYI for the community.  I did speak with Rogers again this morning and FINALLY convinced them to check the guide on their own equipment....and they are seeing the exact same thing on their equipment, at their offices.  Same "no information", same channels, same time frames.  As this appears to now be something that they are acknowleding, they are apparantly rushing it to the engineers.  No guide info=No PVR recordings=many unhappy people.  I guess the two tech's that came to my house in the past 2 weeks were right when they said the issue wasn't on my end.  I guess I can be thankful that I didn't swap the box.  I guess I should be thankful that it only took 17 days for Rogers to acknowledge the problem is at their end.

[Customer01]

Seriously, they only just found out?  Don't they monitor their own product?  Well, of course not!  I'm beginning to suspect that nobody who works there uses their own product.

[molly222]

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@Customer01 wrote:

Seriously, they only just found out?  Don't they monitor their own product?  Well, of course not!  I'm beginning to suspect that nobody who works there uses their own product.

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They were told 17 days ago...and repeatedly since then.  They only "Listened" and actually bothered to "check" today when I asked them to humour me and check their own equipment.

Obviously they do not monitor their own product...they have us to do it for them.

[57]

My post 1 of this thread is over 2 months old and many of the issues listed in this thread have been going on for years, not months or days. Rogers have been advised, but they almost never do anything about these sorts of issues.

I've been communicating with Rogers on numerous STB/IPG issues for roughly 15 years, but I get tired of banging my head against the wall and simply "work around" most of these issues unless I"m repeatedly affected directly.

I have been contacted by Rogers and have again provided most of the information in this thread in a slightly different format as requested.

[molly222]

Hi @57

You're right...most of your issues in post 1 have been going on for years, and have been getting worse in the past few months.  What I was specifically referring to is the "no information" across MANY channels, then more channels as the days progress, until it finally is on ALL channels by the evening of day 7 in the guide.  This started on my NB3 May 10th immediately after the Navigatr update.  The guide was fine in the morning, got the update early afternoon, guide was then messed up.  Tried numerous reboots that didn't fix it.  Would be like this for about 3 days, then be OK for another 4 days, then be bad again for 3 days, etc.  During all this, my NB2 showed proper, full guide info.  But, as of yesterday morning, it also showed up on my NB2...i.e. the same "no information" as described above.  The tech's that came to the house over the past few weeks said they knew it wasn't a box issue or a signal issue because of the varying time frames when the "no information" shows up...i.e. wasn't the exact same time across all channels...and they'd seen it at other calls.

I noticed this morning that both boxes now seem to have full guide info again for 7 days...with the usual exceptions of the odd channel like Spark that has the occassional "no information"...which is still unacceptable as the information is available thru other means (and one of the issues that you refer to in your posts).  I believe there may be two seperate problems here...the issues that you are referring to, which are getting worse, and a more recent problem with the guide actually loading/communicating properly.  I am hoping that last nights "fix" is a permanent one and this problem doesn't resurface in a few days as it has been over the past few weeks.

Thank you @57 for continuing to contact Rogers about the many IPG issues.  It is beyond my comprehension though why they don't have a Rogers employee actually checking the guide on a daily basis...it wouldn't solve all the IPG problems...but it certainly would be a start.  If Rogers can charge us all more for specialty channels, then they should be able to have 1 Rogers employee check daily and make sure we have guide info for those channels.  If it's a problem with a third party provider, then get a new one.   The ongoing issues that you have listed have gone on for far too long.  It's unacceptable that you and I, and I'm sure many others, have to use other sources to get basic, correct, guide info.  Rogers should spend less time making it "look pretty" and more time actually providing a guide that is accurate...lipstick on a pig...

[OLDYELLR]

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@molly222 wrote:

They were told 17 days ago...and repeatedly since then.  They only "Listened" and actually bothered to "check" today when I asked them to humour me and check their own equipment.

Obviously they do not monitor their own product...they have us to do it for them.

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Clearly they don't, or at least those that do don't have the knowledge or interest in what customers are actually experiencing.

On this forum we have a number of very experienced customers familiar with all the shortcomings in the latest Rogers hardware and software. These are the people Rogers needs to recruit, for suitable remuneration, to keep tabs and report what needs to be fixed. After all, the customer is always right. What we have presently is the "police" policing the "police" and we know how well that works.

[57]

As mentioned earlier, I sent in a list of the IPG issues and received a callback from Rogers over the weekend saying they needed more information asking me to call. I fully expected another waste of time telephone conversation, however, I encountered a CSR who was quite knowledgeable about the IPG and its issues.  Here's a summary of the points discussed.

"TBA".  Rogers usually updates the major portion of their IPG once a week. If the information doesn't come from the "broadcasters" in time, then Rogers inserts "TBA".  If you notice this and notify Rogers, then Rogers will update the information if it's available.  The TBA for the channels we discussed in the posts above has been rectified for this week.  If you notice it in the future, contact Rogers to have it fixed.

"IPG Changes after the IPG is populated once per week".  For some channels the broadcaster will advise Rogers if there is a progamme change and Rogers will change the IPG, however, as mentioned above sometimes this will not happen. It will happen mostly for sports - if there is a time change or programme change on say TSN, etc.  Most times there is no "last minute" programme change.

"Differences between PVR IPG, AnyPlace, RAPTV".  Apparently, some information is entered manually into these various means of displaying guide info and that is why the info can be different depending on the interface you use.  The CSR didn't understand why there isn't "one big database", but apparently there isn't.

"New". The CSR is as frustrated as we are with the "new" modifier and also wishes Rogers could do better.  Best not to use the "new" modifier whenever possible.

"Name Based Recording". CSR stated it would be nice to have an algorithm to record even if the name changes slightly, however, it's unlikely to happen.

"Timeslot Recordings don't record if the start of programme changes by 1-2 minutes". Again, it would be nice to have an algorithm to adjust, but unlikely to happen.

Apparently, getting all this information into the various IPGs involves a lot more "manual" entry than I thought and explains a lot.

The Rogers CSRs do report these sorts of issues to Rogers since they are also customers who notice these things. Sometimes the issues are corrected, sometimes not...  I guess it depends on the number of people affected and the resources required to "correct the issue".

Around this time of year when the regular schedule programmes end and reruns begin, there is a lot more chance of these sorts of errors.

The pictures that are displayed on the tiles are not always correct and the descriptions can also be in error. Now that I know that this relies on people who may not be familiar with the specific programme, it explaines why the tile pictures can be incorrect, as well as the descriptions...

I understand a lot more now about how all this works...

[Customer01]

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@57 wrote:

As mentioned earlier, I sent in a list of the IPG issues and received a callback from Rogers over the weekend saying they needed more information asking me to call. I fully expected another waste of time telephone conversation, however, I encountered a CSR who was quite knowledgeable about the IPG and its issues.  Here's a summary of the points discussed.

"TBA".  Rogers usually updates the major portion of their IPG once a week. If the information doesn't come from the "broadcasters" in time, then Rogers inserts "TBA".  If you notice this and notify Rogers, then Rogers will update the information if it's available.  The TBA for the channels we discussed in the posts above has been rectified for this week.  If you notice it in the future, contact Rogers to have it fixed.

"IPG Changes after the IPG is populated once per week".  For some channels the broadcaster will advise Rogers if there is a progamme change and Rogers will change the IPG, however, as mentioned above sometimes this will not happen. It will happen mostly for sports - if there is a time change or programme change on say TSN, etc.  Most times there is no "last minute" programme change.

"Differences between PVR IPG, AnyPlace, RAPTV".  Apparently, some information is entered manually into these various means of displaying guide info and that is why the info can be different depending on the interface you use.  The CSR didn't understand why there isn't "one big database", but apparently there isn't.

"New". The CSR is as frustrated as we are with the "new" modifier and also wishes Rogers could do better.  Best not to use the "new" modifier whenever possible.

"Name Based Recording". CSR stated it would be nice to have an algorithm to record even if the name changes slightly, however, it's unlikely to happen.

"Timeslot Recordings don't record if the start of programme changes by 1-2 minutes". Again, it would be nice to have an algorithm to adjust, but unlikely to happen.

Apparently, getting all this information into the various IPGs involves a lot more "manual" entry than I thought and explains a lot.

The Rogers CSRs do report these sorts of issues to Rogers since they are also customers who notice these things. Sometimes the issues are corrected, sometimes not...  I guess it depends on the number of people affected and the resources required to "correct the issue".

Around this time of year when the regular schedule programmes end and reruns begin, there is a lot more chance of these sorts of errors.

The pictures that are displayed on the tiles are not always correct and the descriptions can also be in error. Now that I know that this relies on people who may not be familiar with the specific programme, it explaines why the tile pictures can be incorrect, as well as the descriptions...

I understand a lot more now about how all this works...

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Good information.

What I now understand is that this service that we pay a lot for is not nearly as sophisticated technically as I thought and expected.  It brings up mental images of old phone systems with people  manually connecting the callers!

[OLDYELLR]

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@Customer01 wrote:

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Good information.

What I now understand is that this service that we pay a lot for is not nearly as sophisticated technically as I thought and expected.  It brings up mental images of old phone systems with people  manually connecting the callers!

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I remember when some thought the graphics for the Navigatr tiles were generated by some crude algorithm. Turns out they're generated by humans unfamiliar with the programs.

[Customer01]

A big mess this morning for me and anyone else recording the tennis from Roland Garros on TSN1,3,4 and 5.

First of all, the name changes every day or two - first round second round etc - necessitating new series recordings every couple of days.

Last night the quarterfinals series was set to record on each channel, since yesterday and today were labelled quarterfinals, starting at 8 or 9am...I can't remember now.

The TSN website indicated that they were starting at 5am, a change in the programming because of rain delays in the tournament.

So, I set the channels to record the shows (Sportcentre) that were in the timeslots between 5am and the start time (for quarterfinals)  shown in the Guide.

This morning, from 5am, those channels were recording ok, as SportCentre, yet the Guide had changed to reflect the 5am start, AND had changed the label of all the tennis today to Day 11.  Plus, the time slot for the later recordings originally labelled quarterfinals,  had all changed.

So, the result of this, was that the original series recording called quarterfinals had no scheduled recordings!  So I would not have got anything recorded after 8am, if I had not got up early and noticed!

This is what the first two lines of my List page looks like after I stopped the Sportcentre recordings and set series recordings for the label Day 11.  As you can see, the first tile says French Open: Day  and ALSO Sportcentre, and the rest of the series recordings are called Sportcentre, even though the Guide says Day 11!  I wonder if the recordings will be ok.

(And as an aside, how useless are all those tiles.)

Please take this to whoever is in charge of the Guide and the Navigatr software, so they can see what a mess it is.

I'm tired of this.

[Customer01]

And another mess this morning with the Guide not matching up with TSN, and the time slots for Roland Garros completely incorrect, making recording very complicated. It's just not reliable.

[User14]

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@57 wrote:

A few more issues with the IPG this week. There are usually a couple, but this week is worse.

11. I set a recording for a Twilight Zone episode airing on Friday at 9AM Space Channel. When I reviewed the scheduled recordings on AnyPlace/RAPTV, or the PVR itself, there was also a recording for Monday at 9:30 - half way through the airing of a completely different episode. I thought I had somehow made a mistake and deleted the recording. Tried again and the same thing happened, so I let it go ahead and the PVR recorded the last half of the Monday episode. One of the weirder things the IPG has done.

12. Tried recording the premiere of Sensitive Skin early Monday morning on HBO. It missed the first few minutes, which very rarely happens - I usually extend recordings on HBO/TMN by 5 minutes at the end due to minor timing issues, but I don't recall missing a beginning.

13. Sensitive Skin is airing all week, but the descriptions are all over the map and incorrect. Some descriptions are for the 2007 BBC series, etc.

14. The "Pictures" on the tiles in the PVR are for the Joanna Lumley Sensitive Skin series, not the Canadian series. Also, there are two different pictures - hardly useful.  These pictures are often incorrect, or inconsistent or missing.

15. I record Grand Designs daily 3PM on CBC. The Tuesday episode is not showing in the series recording list - this, or something similar, has happened before, so I set a single recording on a different CBC channel to cover this instance.

16. One of the F1 pre-race programmes (Drivers' Parade?) didn't record. As long as I get the race I'm satisfied, it was just weird that it didn't record and still showed in the "Scheduled list" afterwards. That rarely happens to me - perhaps there was a name change or something else last minute. I noticed that the 4PM repeat of the Race was changed after I set a recording a few days earlier - I noticed this on AnyPlace since I don't record "Basketball", which was showing on many channels.

Not ready for prime time, but these recordings were not at prime time.  

I rarely had these issues before early this year, but now have something that I need to work around almost every week. Not sure if this is connected to Navigatr, or something else that Rogers has managed to mess up. I never used to have to "monitor" AnyPlace almost every day to ensure that my programming is recorded. I can't imagine how people attempt to do this using Navigatr on the PVR.

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I have added to the list of IPG issues.

18. - this is from @yyz64  One "fix" I would like to see is in regards to the green D button that brings up the local weather. When you are done you need to press Exit to remove it.  Wouldn't it be easier to just have the D button toggle it on/off with each press so you don't have to go around the remote pressing another button? Common sense I suppose but not surprising with the people who have written this software.  

In my case I can't even get the weather by pressing the green D button on my NB3 (9865).   What I get is "Weather is currently unavailable (4)" which is a more substantive IPG issue I think.   

Fix both please!

[yyz64]

User14 ,

That's the problem I was having. No weather.no ROD   no Call Display and on channel 975 it said not authorized.Do you have any of those?See molly222 for having the same problems.