CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink 

Hi there, I forgot to mention the MoCA filters are not installed previously, they were installed by myself (was planning to make a MoCA network).

 

I will post 3 testing pictures, ALL of them are connected to main line DIRECTLY.

======================================================================

Direct connect mainline with new F-81 connector but without any filter.

============================================

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 591000000 256QAM 7.900 7 40.946
2 597000000 256QAM 7.600 8 40.366
3 603000000 256QAM 7.800 9 40.366
4 855000000 256QAM 5.800 3 38.605
5 861000000 256QAM 5.600 4 38.605
6 579000000 256QAM 7.600 5 40.366
7 585000000 256QAM 7.700 6 40.946
8 849000000 256QAM 6.300 2 38.983
9 609000000 256QAM 7.900 10 40.366
10 615000000 256QAM 8.100 11 40.366
11 621000000 256QAM 8.200 12 40.946
12 633000000 256QAM 8.700 13 40.946
13 639000000 256QAM 8.600 14 40.946
14 645000000 256QAM 8.500 15 40.366
15 651000000 256QAM 8.300 16 40.946
16 657000000 256QAM 8.200 17 40.946
17 663000000 256QAM 8.100 18 40.366
18 669000000 256QAM 8.200 19 40.366
19 675000000 256QAM 8.200 20 40.366
20 681000000 256QAM 8.100 21 40.946
21 687000000 256QAM 7.800 22 40.366
22 693000000 256QAM 7.500 23 40.946
23 699000000 256QAM 7.400 24 40.366
24 705000000 256QAM 7.300 25 40.366
25 711000000 256QAM 7.100 26 40.946
26 717000000 256QAM 7.000 27 40.366
27 723000000 256QAM 6.500 28 40.366
28 825000000 256QAM 6.700 29 40.366
29 831000000 256QAM 6.600 30 40.366
30 837000000 256QAM 6.800 31 40.946
31 843000000 256QAM 6.400 32 40.366
32 279000000 256QAM 8.100 1 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.599998
1 NA NA NO NO NO NA
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 28.750 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 30.750 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 26.750 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

==================================================

Direct connect mainline with Antronix filter GLF-1002 (I think this is also a MoCA filter)

==================================================

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 645000000 256QAM 8.600 15 40.946
2 591000000 256QAM 8.000 7 40.946
3 597000000 256QAM 8.000 8 40.366
4 849000000 256QAM 6.100 2 40.366
5 855000000 256QAM 5.700 3 38.983
6 861000000 256QAM 5.300 4 38.605
7 579000000 256QAM 7.900 5 40.366
8 585000000 256QAM 8.000 6 40.946
9 603000000 256QAM 8.200 9 40.946
10 609000000 256QAM 8.200 10 40.366
11 615000000 256QAM 8.300 11 40.946
12 621000000 256QAM 8.400 12 40.946
13 633000000 256QAM 8.800 13 40.946
14 639000000 256QAM 8.800 14 40.946
15 279000000 256QAM 8.100 1 40.946
16 651000000 256QAM 8.400 16 40.946
17 657000000 256QAM 8.300 17 40.946
18 663000000 256QAM 8.300 18 40.946
19 669000000 256QAM 8.300 19 40.946
20 675000000 256QAM 8.300 20 40.366
21 681000000 256QAM 8.200 21 40.366
22 687000000 256QAM 8.000 22 40.366
23 693000000 256QAM 7.700 23 40.946
24 699000000 256QAM 7.500 24 40.946
25 705000000 256QAM 7.300 25 40.946
26 711000000 256QAM 7.200 26 40.366
27 717000000 256QAM 7.100 27 40.946
28 723000000 256QAM 6.800 28 40.366
29 825000000 256QAM 6.600 29 40.366
30 831000000 256QAM 6.400 30 40.366
31 837000000 256QAM 6.600 31 40.946
32 843000000 256QAM 6.300 32 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.699997
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.250 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

==================================================

Direct connect mainline with Holland MoCA filter, Model: MPOE-TM

=================================================

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 645000000 256QAM 8.500 15 40.366
2 591000000 256QAM 7.800 7 40.946
3 597000000 256QAM 7.700 8 40.946
4 849000000 256QAM 6.000 2 38.983
5 855000000 256QAM 5.500 3 38.983
6 861000000 256QAM 5.200 4 38.605
7 579000000 256QAM 7.500 5 40.366
8 585000000 256QAM 7.700 6 40.366
9 603000000 256QAM 7.800 9 40.946
10 609000000 256QAM 8.000 10 40.946
11 615000000 256QAM 8.000 11 40.366
12 621000000 256QAM 8.200 12 40.946
13 633000000 256QAM 8.700 13 40.946
14 639000000 256QAM 8.600 14 40.366
15 279000000 256QAM 8.000 1 40.946
16 651000000 256QAM 8.300 16 40.366
17 657000000 256QAM 8.200 17 40.946
18 663000000 256QAM 8.100 18 40.946
19 669000000 256QAM 8.200 19 40.366
20 675000000 256QAM 8.200 20 40.946
21 681000000 256QAM 8.000 21 40.946
22 687000000 256QAM 7.800 22 40.366
23 693000000 256QAM 7.500 23 40.946
24 699000000 256QAM 7.300 24 40.366
25 705000000 256QAM 7.200 25 40.946
26 711000000 256QAM 7.100 26 40.366
27 717000000 256QAM 7.100 27 40.946
28 723000000 256QAM 6.700 28 40.946
29 825000000 256QAM 6.500 29 40.946
30 831000000 256QAM 6.300 30 40.366
31 837000000 256QAM 6.400 31 40.366
32 843000000 256QAM 6.100 32 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.699997
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.250 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink 

 

I also checked the "WHITE" cables connecting to the splitters and amplifiers, they are

RG-6 FOAM 18 AWG 75C (UL) E111378A C12 CSA LL77501 FT-1 "OR" CATV E135174A

 

The cable which I labelled "no idea what that is" has the following writing:

COMMSCOPE INC. E113333A CM OR CATV (UL)C(UL) CMG 18 AWG

 

Also, the SHORT BLACK CABLE connect from the splitter to amplifier has NO writing on it at all, so I am not sure what the cable is, and the other black cable is the power supply for amp.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink 

 

As for the "tan color not white" cable, I couldn't find the writing, the rest of the cable is too far to reach or see.

 

I am now sure how can I determine if I am near what you called "neighborhood node".

 

As for the "Home PVR" thing, I am also not sure either, since currently we have no TVs at home, but the former house owner might? Again, I am not sure, soory 😞

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,111

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

That tan cable is probably thinner than the other black or white RG-6 cables.  By looking at it, you'll probably be able to see that its a thinner cable which would indicate that its an RG-59 cable.  RG-6 is the preferred cable.   What you could do is pull the wallplate off of the wall upstairs and see if there is any specs printed on the cable jacket at that end.  I'm still guessing thats an RG-59 cable, just from the colour itself. 

 

Ok, looking around for the MoCA filter specs, it looks like the Antronix filter should be the preferred filter.  You should see a pass band and Rejection band number set on those filters. 

 

The Antronix GLF-1002 filter Rejection band runs from 1125 to 2005 Mhz, which is good for MoCA 2.0.

 

The Holland electronics MPOE-TM looks like a discontinued product and appears to have a Rejection band that runs from 1125 to 1525 Mhz, which is only good for MoCA 1.1   In theory, at the upper frequency range, the rejection loss should continue or drop even further, so you should be fine with that filter.  I can't find any archived data on that filter for some reason.  I'll have a look around later tonight.  

 

There is a newer version of the Holland Electronics filters, specifically the MoCA-IHF and MoCA-CM.  The MoCA-CM has a higher rejection loss in the 1125 to 2000 Mhz range.  Both of those are rated up to 3000 Mhz.  Given a choice, the MoCA-CM is the better selection, however, if you have one or two of the Antronix MoCA filters on hand, I'd use those.  If not, put the Antronix filter on the main line and the Holland Electronics MoCA filter on the Modem itself, as you're probably going to be using that modem line for MoCA ops.  So, the filter, located at the modem will protect the modem from any MoCA signals.

 

Edit:  For now I'd disconnect the amplifier completely, move one of the MoCA filters and install it on the modem and connect the modem cable to the splitter, first try the 3.5 dB port.  Lets see what happens to the upper frequencies.  I suspect that with that tan cable, you're going to take a real hit in terms of signal loss at the upper frequencies that MoCA 2.0 uses.  That will drop the data rates with those adapters, not due to the adapters themselves, but due to the signal loss in that cable at higher frequencies. 

 

Here's the product sheet for the MPOE-TM filter:

 

https://www.techtoolsupply.info/manuals/hol-mpoe-tm.pdf

 

which comes from this page:

 

https://www.techtoolsupply.com/Holland-MoCA-POE-Filter-p/hol-mpoe-tm.htm

 

Here's the newer filters from Holland Electronics:

 

http://www.hollandelectronics.com/pdf/MoCA-Series-Filters-1.6.pdf

 

None of those filters are suitable for DOCSIS 3.1 which requires a pass band up to 1218 Mhz.  For now, don't worry about it as that frequency extension probably won't happen for a while.  

 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink 

 

UPDATE:

 

Hi there,  thanks again for spending all those time typing and explaining everything to me, thank you so much.

Also, I found the other side of the "tan color cable" upstairs in THREE rooms (all of them has  the tan color cable),

but the writing is still no clear, I can only see PARTIAL of the writing on the cables, sorry 😞

(cable from one room has writing "property of  shaw cable Belden-T    YV29895 SER....", can't see the rest)

(cable from another room has the writing in the following pictures)  That's all I got.

 

And I am assuming that these "tan color" cables are not for the internet? I tried to connect the modem with them, no internet connection.

 

IMG_1822small.jpgIMG_1823small.jpgIMG_1824small.jpg

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,111

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

I'm assuming that you might be in an older home?  If so, then those tan cables make sense, as they were installed for analogue tv signals.  Time has passed by, analogue tv is gone and now everything is digital.  

 

The RG-59 cables have about 1.4 to 2 db higher loss than RG-6 cables, which isn't very much.  The bigger problem is that the center copper conductor is smaller and there isn't anywhere near the amount of shielding around the dielectric that surrounds the copper center conductor.  So, the lesser amount of shielding makes the cable more susceptible to external interference. 

 

However, it is what it is and if there isn't a way to snake another cable upstairs from the electrical panel, then you'll have to judge whether all of the effort is worth it, when its up and running.  For now, I'd say carry on and lets see what the final product looks like.  It will work, but, it won't work to the same level as if you had RG-6 cabling throughout the home.  

 

Here' a chart that shows the losses in RG-59, RG-6 and the heavier RG-11 cabling.  Your main interest at this point is in the 1125 to 1675 Mhz range.  Those losses are for 100 Foot or 100 Metre lengths of cable:

 

https://www.multicominc.com/wp-content/uploads/Attenuation.pdf

 

To determine which tan cable is which (upstairs and downstairs), you can use something like the following ethernet and cable tester:

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Sperry-Instruments-TT64202-Tester-Master/dp/B004Y75B5Y/ref=asc_df_B004Y75B5Y/?...

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Southwire-Tools-Equipment-M550-Continuity/dp/B01ADWQ94A

 

Edit:  for those two bottom pictures, if you loosed up that bottom clip at the back of the electrical box, you could probably pull out more of that cable to see what else is printed on the cable jacket.  This looks like Belden e108998 coac cable.  Can't find the specs at the moment, so I'll have to search for this later.  This is a coax cable correct?  I've run across multi-conductor cable in my search which doesn't make any sense. 

 

 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 35

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink 

 

Hi there,

I removed the amplifier, below is the picture of the current setup and the tested information.

main line -> antronix poe filter -> antronix 3-way splitter 5-1002MHz CMC2003H

 

only one antronix poe filter was used, but I have a few more, do I need to use more?

 

Also, I have holland 3-way moca splitter (GHS-3PRO-M 5-1675MHz) and 4-way moca splitter (GHS-3PRO-M 5-1675MHz), should I use one of them instead?

 

Clear image link: https://ibb.co/xCdHhMn

 

IMG_1826small.jpg

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 645000000 256QAM -4.300 15 37.356
2 591000000 256QAM -6.700 7 36.387
3 597000000 256QAM -6.200 8 36.610
4 849000000 256QAM -8.900 2 35.595
5 855000000 256QAM -8.500 3 35.595
6 861000000 256QAM -10.000 4 34.926
7 579000000 256QAM -4.600 5 37.636
8 585000000 256QAM -5.800 6 37.356
9 603000000 256QAM -5.000 9 37.356
10 609000000 256QAM -5.800 10 37.356
11 615000000 256QAM -5.300 11 37.636
12 621000000 256QAM -4.600 12 37.636
13 633000000 256QAM -4.700 13 37.356
14 639000000 256QAM -4.700 14 37.356
15 279000000 256QAM -1.800 1 37.356
16 651000000 256QAM -4.300 16 37.636
17 657000000 256QAM -6.300 17 36.610
18 663000000 256QAM -5.400 18 37.636
19 669000000 256QAM -4.500 19 37.356
20 675000000 256QAM -5.800 20 37.356
21 681000000 256QAM -6.400 21 36.610
22 687000000 256QAM -5.600 22 37.356
23 693000000 256QAM -5.400 23 37.356
24 699000000 256QAM -6.100 24 37.356
25 705000000 256QAM -6.200 25 37.356
26 711000000 256QAM -6.200 26 36.610
27 717000000 256QAM -6.600 27 37.356
28 723000000 256QAM -7.500 28 36.387
29 825000000 256QAM -9.500 29 35.084
30 831000000 256QAM -7.700 30 36.610
31 837000000 256QAM -7.400 31 36.610
32 843000000 256QAM -8.800 32 35.595
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES -3.200001
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 35.500 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 39.500 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.500 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,111

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

??  Wow, so that's main line > POE filter > Antronix Splitter > Cable modem  

 

With the cable modem located in its normal location, so that you're using the tan cable to connect from the splitter, thru the walls to the modem location?  Just want to be sure here.   That's one heck of a drop connected thru the - 3.5 dB port.

 

Here's the spec sheet for the cable.  If you were able to pull more of that cable out of the electrical box, then you should be able to match the jacket details to the Product Print Legend as shown in the Final Assembly area.

 

https://secure.libertycable.com/RUB_IMAGES/images/spec/BEL9118%20Specification.pdf

 

Edit:  how were you intending to install the adapters?  On the same cable that runs to the modem I presume?  Or is there another cable present that you were intending to use?

 

That cable is an RG-6 cable, so, a large signal drop might signify a problem with the cable itself, somewhere in the walls.  You should also inspect the cable ends to ensure that the center copper conductor is free and clear of any of the surrounding shield material, which would short out the copper conductor.  If you disconnect that cable at both ends, you can clean off the center copper conductor with a piece of sandpaper or with a sharp knife.  Typically a tech would cut the ends off and install a new connector on clean copper. 

 

You only need to use two POE filters, one on the main line and one on the modem, located at the modem itself.  

 

If you have the adapters onsite and you're ready to give this a go, you can swap out the Antronix splitter for either of the Holland splitters.  You don't want to have any unused ports if that's possible. 

 

Thinking aloud here, I'm wondering if there isn't a splitter buried in a wall somewhere.  If you had a cable tester, I'd connect the one end to the downstairs cable, then run around upstairs testing all of the cables to confirm or deny that thought.  You have somewhere around a 13 dB drop from downstairs to that last connection point, so, if that's upstairs, you should be seeing around a 5 dB drop, if that.  So, there's another 7 dB drop or so, taking place for some reason.  

 

So there's only one tan cable visible at the electrical panel, and more than one room upstairs with tan cabling present?  Is the attic accessible to have a quick look for cabling, and / or is there any crawlspace anywhere or hidden closet that might just have some cabling running thru it?