CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@rmann2020 thanks for the reminder.  At times I have a few conversations going at the same time, so I may not remember all of the details from the start of any particular conversation.  

 

I would recommend the Antronix or Holland Electronics MoCA splitter.  Connect the modem to the -3.5 dB port which will leave the modem signal levels unchanged.  Leave the Balanced Splitter out of consideration at this point.  

 

Is the Nextbox in the family room no longer needed when you install the Gocoax adapters?



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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink - no need to apologize.

I will continue using all three Netboxes.

Do I need a 2-way splitter still? I'm not 100% on how to connect the Gocoax MoCA adapters once I get them. Each of the three Netboxes and the Modem all need coax inputs (4 total). I assume the upstairs coax line will go into the MoCA adapter and then use the MoCA built in splitter/out to the Netbox. How will that work in the basement where the demarcation point with Ll equipment is not in the same room as the basement Netbox?
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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@rmann2020  the gocoax adapters have a cable input and cable output and one LAN ethernet port.  So the cable from the basement splitter connects to the input, and the output is connected to a Nextbox for example.  The LAN connection is used to support an ethernet connected device.  That is shown here:

 

https://www.gocoax.com/products

 

So, from your description it almost seems like you need a four port MoCa splitter or higher.  I'll try to describe what you're indicating in the following layout using a three port splitter initially:

 

                                                         -> MoCA Adapter -> Nextbox on second floor

incoming -> MoCA -> MoCA    -> Nextbox in Family room

cable              Filter       Splitter   -> 2nd 2 port MoCA splitter -> modem in Basement

                                                                                                            -> MoCA Adapter -> Nextbox in Basement

 

Ok, if you were to add a second splitter in the basement, which is a 2 port splitter, you're not gaining anything in terms of losses due to the cascading losses when splitters are installed one after the other.  That 2 port splitter will have a -3.5 db loss per port, which would be connected to the first -3.5 db port on the 3 port splitter.  So, you end up with a -7 db loss going to the modem.  That's probably the bottom end of where you want to be going to the modem.   

 

You could install a two port splitter on one of the -7 db ports of the three port splitter and use those two ports to run the nextboxes, leaving the -3.5 db port of the three port splitter to run the modem.  Now the question is, where does the basement MoCA adapter go?  You indicated that the adapter and basement nextbox will be in different rooms?  It almost sounds like you need a five port MoCa splitter that would end up looking like this:

 

                                                         -> MoCA Adapter -> Nextbox on second floor

incoming -> MoCA -> MoCA    -> Nextbox in Family room

cable              Filter       Splitter   -> modem in Basement

                                                        -> MoCA Adapter in Basement

                                                        -> Nextbox in Basement

 

This depends on the configuration required for the basement, as in, what equipment is situated in what room.  Can the MoCA adapter go in the same room as the modem with any ethernet devices in the basement connecting via ethernet cable?  If that's not possible due to a lack of ethernet cabling, then you should consider a powered MoCA amplifier such as the following:

 

https://www.ppc-online.com/5-and-9-port-active-return-moca-enabled-coax-amplifier-splitter

 

I believe the correct 5 port MoCA amp is the ppc-5M-U/U-PI 5-port MoCA Home Amplifier.  That should come with the power inserter as well as the amp.  Those amps, both 5 port and 9 port have MoCA Point of Entry filters built in. 

 

The problem here is the number of cables that you need to support in the basement.  The MoCA splitters from Holland Electronics come in 2, 3, 4 or 8 ports.  If you need 5 ports, that means that you have to run the 8 port splitter, where the signal loss per port is -11 dB.  That's not good.  If it is the case that you need three cable runs in the basement, I'd advise going to a 5 port MoCA amp. 

 

If you look at the following post by @traghipp, you will see that he used the 9 port version of that splitter and it appears that this works very well.  

 

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Wifi-extender-for-hitron-coda-4582/m-p/426001#M53329

 

If you flip back thru that thread, you will see the discussion leading up to the PPC 9 port amp.  If you have any questions, you could probably ask @traghipp for any additional advice or observations on his MoCA network.

 

Hope this all makes sense.  It all hinges on how many cables you need to support in the basement and where the cable connected equipment is located in the basement.  Have I interpreted this correctly??



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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink - hopefully the below future state diagram helps clarify.  All basement equipment will be at the demarcation point/room with the exception of the Netbox.

 

"Can the MoCA adapter go in the same room as the modem with any ethernet devices in the basement connecting via ethernet cable?"

Yes, they will be in the same room and the optional basement AP can be run via ethernet cable to the existing switch.

 

In essence, the basement MoCA adapter's purpose is to provide data to the 2nd floor MoCA adapter which is needed for the 2nd floor AP.

 

Ultimately, my end goal is reliable high speed internet using my existing equipment where possible.  I don't mind spending $s for a splitter as that will help me get to my end goal and is (hopefully) a one time purchase that will last many years.

 

Given my end goal, what's your recommendation for wiring/setup/splitter/etc.?  Again, I'm relatively new to the networking space, am looking for a low maintenance and reliable solution to serve my family's needs.

Future Home network diagram.png

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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@rmann2020 can you reboot the modem and post the signal level table again.  I'd like to see the updated signal stats prior to making any recommendation.  At this point I'd say that a 4 port MoCA splitter is in order due to the signal levels.  That drops everything by 8 dB, so your signal levels on the modem would drop by another 5 dB which puts them into marginal territory.  If you have a three port splitter installed now which has a -3.5 dB port and two -7 dB ports, changing to a 4 port splitter would drop the Nextboxes by 1 dB, which isn't much of a difference.  

 

Going to a two splitter configuration would keep the modem signal levels where they are, but possibly drop the nextboxes by another 3.5 dB, which isn't good.  

 

So, the compromise would be a 4 port splitter from what I can see.  If that doesn't work, as in your modem performance drops or you end up with pixelation on the top floor Nextbox, then the next step is to move to the 5 port amplifier as indicated earlier.  

 

The cheap solution is the 4 port splitter.  If that works out, yay.  If not .... move on to the amplifier.  

 

The Antronix 4 port splitter is the MMC2004H-A.

The Holland Electronics 4 port splitter is the GHS-4PRO-M

 

Either one would work.

 

Here's the link for the Antronix data sheet:

 

https://www.antronix.com/pdf/ds-1197-ss-a01_mmc2000-splitters.pdf

 

Here's the link for the Holland Electronics data sheet:

 

http://www.hollandelectronics.com/catalog/upload_file/GHS-PRO-M.pdf

 



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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Updated signal level table after reboot below.  I also made a few other changes in my config that should improve the signal level:

- I moved closer to my future state by moving all the planned equipment to the basement (modem, router, switch)

- I disconnected the basement netbox as it is seldomly used (for now) leaving main floor and 2nd floor netboxes hooked into the -7db ports on my 3-way switch

- connected modem directly to the -3.5db port on the 3-way switch

 

For the recommendation, would it be possible to have 2 recos: (1) with the basement netbox, and (2) without.  Thanks in advance.

 

Downstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1621000000256QAM8.7001240.366
2633000000256QAM9.2001340.366
3639000000256QAM9.3001440.366
4645000000256QAM9.2001538.983
5597000000256QAM6.400838.983
6603000000256QAM7.100938.983
7609000000256QAM7.9001040.366
8615000000256QAM8.5001140.366
9279000000256QAM4.200137.636
10579000000256QAM6.600538.605
11585000000256QAM4.900638.605
12591000000256QAM4.900738.605
13651000000256QAM9.7001640.946
14657000000256QAM9.8001740.366
15663000000256QAM9.4001838.983
16669000000256QAM9.5001940.946
17675000000256QAM9.4002040.366
18681000000256QAM9.4002138.983
19687000000256QAM9.6002240.366
20693000000256QAM9.7002340.946
21699000000256QAM9.5002438.983
22705000000256QAM9.3002540.366
23711000000256QAM9.2002640.366
24717000000256QAM8.9002738.605
25723000000256QAM9.0002838.983
26825000000256QAM10.1002938.983
27831000000256QAM9.9003038.605
28837000000256QAM10.2003138.605
29843000000256QAM10.3003238.605
30849000000256QAM9.800238.605
31855000000256QAM9.300338.983
32861000000256QAM9.500438.605
OFDM Downstream Overview
ReceiverFFT typeSubcarr 0 Frequency(MHz)PLC lockedNCP lockedMDC1 lockedPLC power(dBmv)
0NANANONONONA
14K275600000YESYESYES5.199997
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandwidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM35.75033200000
230596000ATDMA - 64QAM33.00016400000
323700000ATDMA - 64QAM31.75026400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel IndexStatelin Digital AttDigital AttBW (sc's*fft)Report PowerReport Power1_6FFT Size
0DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
1DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink - posting table again now that modem has been running all day to see if there is any difference.

 

As I mentioned in my earlier post today:

- I moved closer to my future state by moving all the planned equipment to the basement (modem, router, switch)

- I disconnected the basement netbox as it is seldom used (for now) leaving main floor and 2nd floor netboxes hooked into the -7db ports on my 3-way switch

- connected modem directly to the -3.5db port on the existing 3-way switch

 

For the recommendation, would it be possible to have 2 recos: (1) with the basement netbox, and (2) without.  Thanks in advance.

 

Downstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1621000000256QAM8.9001240.366
2633000000256QAM9.4001340.366
3639000000256QAM9.5001440.946
4645000000256QAM9.5001538.983
5597000000256QAM6.700838.983
6603000000256QAM7.400938.983
7609000000256QAM8.2001040.366
8615000000256QAM8.8001140.366
9279000000256QAM4.200137.636
10579000000256QAM6.700538.983
11585000000256QAM5.100638.605
12591000000256QAM5.300738.605
13651000000256QAM10.0001640.946
14657000000256QAM9.9001740.366
15663000000256QAM9.7001838.983
16669000000256QAM9.8001940.366
17675000000256QAM9.6002040.366
18681000000256QAM9.7002140.366
19687000000256QAM9.9002240.366
20693000000256QAM10.0002340.946
21699000000256QAM9.8002438.983
22705000000256QAM9.6002540.366
23711000000256QAM9.5002640.366
24717000000256QAM9.2002738.983
25723000000256QAM9.3002838.983
26825000000256QAM10.5002938.605
27831000000256QAM10.3003038.605
28837000000256QAM10.7003138.605
29843000000256QAM10.9003238.983
30849000000256QAM10.400238.605
31855000000256QAM9.900338.605
32861000000256QAM10.300438.605
OFDM Downstream Overview
ReceiverFFT typeSubcarr 0 Frequency(MHz)PLC lockedNCP lockedMDC1 lockedPLC power(dBmv)
0NANANONONONA
14K275600000YESYESYES5.300003
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandwidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM36.00033200000
230596000ATDMA - 64QAM33.25016400000
323700000ATDMA - 64QAM32.25026400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel IndexStatelin Digital AttDigital AttBW (sc's*fft)Report PowerReport Power1_6FFT Size
0DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
1DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@rmann2020 looking at your signal levels, they're pretty high, higher than they should be.  Given that fact, you can afford to run a 4 port splitter to drop the modem levels slightly.  That will only drop them another 3.5 dB but, thats better than where they are right now.  It won't affect the Nextbox signal levels.  With that 4 port splitter installed, you should keep a Nextbox connected to it.  If not, then a 75 ohm terminator should be installed on the unused splitter port to prevent any internal signal reflection.  

 

You could also add a forward path attenuator to the inbound cable to drop the downstream signal levels by 6 dB.  That would leave the upstream levels alone, which is ok.    

 

At the end of the day, that would bring your modem downstream levels down to 0 dBmV or close to it.  If the Nextboxes run as they should, all the better.  If you noticed any pixelation or audio issues, then you would simply move the forward path attenuator to the modem cable that runs off of the 4 port splitter.

 

Here's the attenuator:

 

https://www.amazon.ca/line-Signal-Forward-Attenuator-FPA6-54/dp/B07882H96R

 

Here's the 75ohm terminator:

 

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ideal-f-twist-on-terminator/1001046721

 

 



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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@Datalink - I temporarily added a 2-way splitter off of the -3.5db port on the 3-way with one connection going to the modem and the other the basement netbox.  Updated results below.  Signal strength did go down by ~3.5db as expected.  So looks like the 4-way splitter is the way to go. 

 

Question is whether the attenuator will help or potentially hurt?  (for those who are in the market the attenuator is much cheaper in the US @ 4.50 US vs. Canada @ $20 CDN, assuming you can pickup in US)

 

As for 4-way splitters, there's the Antronix and the Holland.  Which one? (or something else)

 

Antronix:

https://www.amazon.com/Antronix-MMC1004H-B-Splitter-Frontier-Formerly/dp/B07PNJVKQZ

 

Holland:

https://www.amazon.com/Holland-Electronics-4-Way-Splitter-5-1675Mhz/dp/B00OTOEIGK

 

 

Downstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDSignal noise ratio (dB)
1621000000256QAM5.3001238.605
2633000000256QAM5.6001338.983
3639000000256QAM5.9001438.983
4645000000256QAM5.8001538.983
5597000000256QAM3.300838.605
6603000000256QAM4.000938.983
7609000000256QAM4.7001038.983
8615000000256QAM5.1001138.983
9279000000256QAM0.700137.356
10579000000256QAM2.900538.605
11585000000256QAM1.300637.636
12591000000256QAM1.800737.636
13651000000256QAM6.4001640.366
14657000000256QAM6.3001738.983
15663000000256QAM6.2001838.605
16669000000256QAM6.1001938.983
17675000000256QAM5.8002038.983
18681000000256QAM5.7002138.605
19687000000256QAM5.7002238.983
20693000000256QAM6.0002338.605
21699000000256QAM5.9002438.605
22705000000256QAM6.0002538.983
23711000000256QAM6.1002638.605
24717000000256QAM5.5002738.605
25723000000256QAM5.5002838.983
26825000000256QAM6.5002938.605
27831000000256QAM6.3003038.605
28837000000256QAM6.8003138.605
29843000000256QAM6.9003238.605
30849000000256QAM6.500237.356
31855000000256QAM6.100337.356
32861000000256QAM6.200437.636
OFDM Downstream Overview
ReceiverFFT typeSubcarr 0 Frequency(MHz)PLC lockedNCP lockedMDC1 lockedPLC power(dBmv)
0NANANONONONA
14K275600000YESYESYES1.700001
Upstream Overview
Port IDFrequency (MHz)ModulationSignal strength (dBmV)Channel IDBandwidth
138596000ATDMA - 64QAM40.00033200000
230596000ATDMA - 64QAM36.00016400000
323700000ATDMA - 64QAM36.00026400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel IndexStatelin Digital AttDigital AttBW (sc's*fft)Report PowerReport Power1_6FFT Size
0DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
1DISABLED0.50000.00000.0000-inf-1.00004K
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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@rmann2020 cancel the 6 dB Forward Path Attenuator.  With the 3.5 dB loss due to the splitter that you added, I'd be happy to leave it at that.  What you can to is to install the splitter on the incoming line between the MoCA filter and the MoCA splitter.  One leg goes to the MoCA splitter, and the other leg should have a 75 ohm terminator on it, as indicated earlier.  You should be able to find that 75 ohm terminator locally.  

 

I'm looking at ports 9 and 10 which cover the frequency range for the DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM channel, which is used for the downstream data.  Where those two DOCSIS 3.0 channels are, with respect to the signal levels, I'm satisfied with where they are at the current time.  The upstream DOCSIS 3.0 channels are ok for their signal levels as well.  

 

So, you can install that two port splitter ahead of the 4 port MOCA splitter, or if you're really keen, you could install a PPC FPA3-54 forward path attenuator in place of the two port splitter.  The final signal levels will be very near the same.  I don't know if you would be able to find a 3 dB forward path attenuator such as the PPC FPA3-54.  

 

something like this:

 

Incoming ->   MoCA   ->   2 port     ->   75 ohm terminator 

  cable              filter            splitter    ->   4 port splitter   ->  upstairs Nextbox

                                                                                                 ->  main floor Nextbox

                                                                                                 ->  basement Nextbox

                                                                                                 ->  basement modem