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CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

Thanks for the advice.

Also just wondering if I want to use Actiontec bonded MoCA 2.0 Network Adaptor ECB6200 duo pack, is that mean I can ONLY use them on the Rogers CODA-4582 directly, but NOT with ASUS GT AC5300 connected right?

 

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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Datalink
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Hello @alan4160 

 

You can use the actiontec adapters with any cable modem and with any combination of cable modem and router.  

 

Having said that, you also need a MoCA filter installed on the cable as it enters your home and you need a MoCA 2.0 qualified splitter installed just after that filter.  That MoCA 2.0 splitter would replace the existing Rogers splitter.  

 

One thing I would suggest for now is to pull the wallplate off of the wall, for any wallplate that has a cable and/or telephone port installed.  If you happen to have a home built within the last 15 years of so, see if you happen to have structured wiring in your home, which consists of two RG-6 cables for cable/satellite/modem services, one Cat-5e for internet and one Cat-3 cable for telephones.  If you have that structured wiring installed, then you don't need to use the adapters, you could simply use the Cat-5e cable throughout the home.  If you don't have a Cat-5e cable but have perhaps two RG-6 cables, then you can use the other cable to run a private internal internet, in which case you don't need the MoCA filter or MoCA splitter.  So, for now, seeing what behind the wallplate is worth a quick check. 

 

I don't have time at the moment to provide further explanation.  I'll do that perhaps later tonight or tomorrow. 



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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Datalink
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Hello @alan4160 

 

You can use the actiontec adapters with any cable modem and with any combination of cable modem and router.  

 

Having said that, you also need a MoCA filter installed on the cable as it enters your home and you need a MoCA 2.0 qualified splitter installed just after that filter.  That MoCA 2.0 splitter would replace the existing Rogers splitter.  

 

One thing I would suggest for now is to pull the wallplate off of the wall, for any wallplate that has a cable and/or telephone port installed.  If you happen to have a home built within the last 15 years of so, see if you happen to have structured wiring in your home, which consists of two RG-6 cables for cable/satellite/modem services, one Cat-5e for internet and one Cat-3 cable for telephones.  If you have that structured wiring installed, then you don't need to use the adapters, you could simply use the Cat-5e cable throughout the home.  If you don't have a Cat-5e cable but have perhaps two RG-6 cables, then you can use the other cable to run a private internal internet, in which case you don't need the MoCA filter or MoCA splitter.  So, for now, seeing what behind the wallplate is worth a quick check. 

 

I don't have time at the moment to provide further explanation.  I'll do that perhaps later tonight or tomorrow. 



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Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink wrote:

Hello @alan4160 

 

You can use the actiontec adapters with any cable modem and with any combination of cable modem and router.  

 

Having said that, you also need a MoCA filter installed on the cable as it enters your home and you need a MoCA 2.0 qualified splitter installed just after that filter.  That MoCA 2.0 splitter would replace the existing Rogers splitter.  

 

One thing I would suggest for now is to pull the wallplate off of the wall, for any wallplate that has a cable and/or telephone port installed.  If you happen to have a home built within the last 15 years of so, see if you happen to have structured wiring in your home, which consists of two RG-6 cables for cable/satellite/modem services, one Cat-5e for internet and one Cat-3 cable for telephones.  If you have that structured wiring installed, then you don't need to use the adapters, you could simply use the Cat-5e cable throughout the home.  If you don't have a Cat-5e cable but have perhaps two RG-6 cables, then you can use the other cable to run a private internal internet, in which case you don't need the MoCA filter or MoCA splitter.  So, for now, seeing what behind the wallplate is worth a quick check. 

 

I don't have time at the moment to provide further explanation.  I'll do that perhaps later tonight or tomorrow. 



Thanks for the clarification. Is it mandatory to use MoCA specific splitter and amplifier? I tried looking for them yesterday, MoCA splitters are easy to find, but for MoCA amplifiers are hard. Any Recommendations? Thank you.

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Hi @alan4160

 

Is it mandatory to use MoCA specific splitter and amplifier?

 

Short story:  yes

 

Long story ……. (TLDR?)

 

MoCA qualified splitters and amps are mandatory if you want to obtain good performance out of the MoCA system itself.  MoCA operates by using the unused frequency space above 1002 Mhz.  Cable systems operate in the 5 to 1002 Mhz band and the splitters and amplifiers that are currently used will support that frequency range.  Any operation above 1002 Mhz requires different splitters and amplifiers due to the frequency roll-off that the cable system splitters and amps have.  You lose a considerable amount of signal power due to that roll-off, enough that you would suffer from low data rates with a MoCA system.  So, the internal ports on the splitters and amps have to support that higher frequency range in order for them to be of any use in a MoCA network. 

 

So there’s two issues here, one is the 5 to 1002 Mhz support, all the way down to the modems, nextboxes and Home Phone modems.  The second is any internal network requirement for MoCA 2.0 frequencies which range between 1125 and 1675 Mhz.  That can be seen in the following MoCA 2.0 specification document, page 7’s frequency plans, cable systems to the left, in terms of frequencies, MoCA systems to the right:

 

http://www.mocalliance.org/MoCA2/specification/MoCA_2_Device_RF_Characteristics-150406d.pdf

 

If you look at the home network layout on page 5 you can see a typical large home layout with MoCA devices installed.  At the top is the local tap (at a green pedestal or utility pole), to which your home is connected, followed by a splitter or two all the way down to tv’s, phone modems, nextboxes, and MoCA adapters.  All of the cable type equipment have to be able to run within that 5 to 1002 Mhz band, while the MoCA devices, have to be able to run in the higher 1125 to 1675 Mhz band.  The top splitter or amp has to support that higher frequency range for internal MoCA networks, but, it also has to prevent that MoCA data from backfeeding into the external cable network, where it can cause problems for your neighbours if in fact they happen to be running a Home PVR system with multiple nextboxes (which uses MoCA) or if they happen to running a MoCA system, same as you’re currently trying to install.  That MoCA filtering capability also protects your own MoCA network from external MoCA interference.  If the splitter or amplifier doesn’t have a MoCA filter built in, then you need a stand alone MoCA filter between the external cable and your MoCA splitter or amp.

 

So, for an amplifier, here's a reference page to a couple of PPC MoCA 2.0 qualified amplifiers which have built in Point of Entry MoCA filters:

 

https://www.ppc-online.com/5-and-9-port-active-return-moca-enabled-coax-amplifier-splitter

 

If you look at the following post, you can see @traghipp's  results using the 9 port version of that amplifier:

 

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Wifi-extender-for-hitron-coda-4582/m-p/426001#M53329

 

If you go back to post #15 on the second page you can read thru that entire conversation.  Reading thru that section of the thread might answer a few more questions.

 

What you will need to do for now, with the appropriate splitter or amplifier in place is to log into the adapters, and set them to operate in the D Band (D-Low plus D-High), and also select encoded operation and enter your own code.  Running in the entire D Band will give you the highest level of performance that you’re going to see for now, and the encryption will protect your MoCA network and its connected equipment.  The D Band operation recommendation is predicated on the assumption that you’re not running Rogers Home PVR with multiple Nextboxes.  If you are, you will have to set the adapters to run in the D-High band as the Nextboxes use the D-Low band for their MoCA operations.  That will result in a reduction of the overall MoCA maximum data rate, if in fact you have to do that. 

 

One new item since those series of posts with @traghipp, Rogers is getting ready to implement the first DOCSIS 3.1 frequency extension which runs up to 1218 Mhz.  If you look at that frequency chart on page 7 again, you can see that the MoCA frequencies start at 1125 Mhz, so when that frequency extension does happen, MoCA users are going to have to set the adapter to run using the D-High band.  At that time without that change to D-High there will be a frequency overlap between the upper DOCSIS 3.1 range, going up to 1218 Mhz  and the lower MoCA 2.0 D-band range, going down to 1125 Mhz.  Rogers techs have an updated series of splitters from Antronix that they are installing now, the Antronix 400x series, which can be seen on this page, with the red fronts.  Scroll down to the CMC400x series:

 

https://www.antronix.com/products/results.aspx

 

I haven’t heard of any dates for the switch over, so I don’t expect that to happen anytime in the near future.  It would only affect users who have the white Hitron CODA-4582 modem, or users with the Ignite TV XB6 modem.  As far as I understand, any other modem would not be affected by the frequency extension to 1218 Mhz.  

 

So, the interesting part of this is that no company, from what I can see, is in a postion where they have products that really support both DOCSIS 3.1, ranging up to 1218 Mhz, and MoCA 2.0/2.5, ranging from 1125 Mhz up to 1675 Mhz.  Some companies claim to support both, but, looking at the frequency ranges for the products, they all support MoCA 2.0/2.5 with DOCSIS 3.0 and below, which runs in the 5 to 1002 Mhz range.  The new splitters that Antronix now has do support DOCSIS 3.1, running up to 1218 Mhz, but, those CMC400x splitters don’t support MoCA 2.0/2.5.  There is a series of Antronix splitters that do support MoCA 2.0/2.5, but, they don’t support the DOCSIS 3.1, which is 5 to 1218 frequency range. 

 

For now, I wouldn’t worry about it, but, keep that in the back of your mind that it will happen someday.   If you don’t have a modem that runs DOCSIS 3.1, then it won’t be a concern. 

 

By the time that the frequency extension is enacted by Rogers, perhaps the adapters will have a firmware update available allowing them to run at a slightly higher frequency, or, perhaps there will be a new series of adapters which will allow that. 

 

For your particular network, here’s a suggested configuration which would work:

 

Inbound cable <-> splitter or amp:

 

splitter <-> house RG- 6 (?) <-> Adapter <-> RG-6 <->  Modem <-> ETHERNET <-> ROUTER

or amp                                                                                     in Bridge                                     WAN

                                                                                                     mode                                        port

 

                                                         Adapter                                                                                   Router

                                                               ^------- LAN port ------- ETHERNET ------- LAN port -------^

 

 

      Splitter or amp <-> house RG-6 <-> Adapter <->  Ethernet <-> Remote device LAN port

      Splitter or amp  <-> house RG-6 <-> Adapter <->  Ethernet <-> Remote device LAN port

      Splitter or amp <-> house RG-6 <-> Adapter <->  Ethernet <-> Remote device LAN port

 

<-> = two way communication path via RG-6 cable or Ethernet

 

You would have to run a splitter or amplifier with as many MoCA ports as required to support your MoCA network.  Unused ports should have a 75 ohm terminator installed to prevent any signal reflection issues at the unused ports. 

 

What makes you think that you need an amplifier instead of a splitter?  

 

 

 

 



Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

Hi there,

 

Thank you so much for the explanation, it is very helpful and professional.

 

I will try to test it out after all my components arrive.

 

The reason I am looking for a MoCA amplifier is that, when I checked my cables in the eletricity box, I saw there is a Antronix Advanced Residential Amplifier MARA1-15 is already installed. So I assume I need one?

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@alan4160  maybe not.  That’s an old amp that Antronix probably doesn’t make anymore and which isn’t really suitable for internet purposes due to the possibility of packet loss caused by the amplifier itself.  It’s a 15 dB gain amplifier, which is a large gain figure.  The only reason that you might need a gain like that would be if you were one of the last customers on the cable line that extends from the neighbourhood node through the neighbourhood and finally to your home.  I’m assuming that it’s been in place for several years now. 

 

What I’d recommend, for temporary test purposes,  is to move your modem to the location where that amplifier is currently located.  Disconnect the amp’s power supply from the nearby power socket and disconnect the amp from the incoming cable that comes in from the nearby pedestal or utility pole. 

 

Connect that incoming cable to the modem and power up the modem.  Ideally, if you have the modem already set and operating in Gateway mode, and you can log into the modem via Ethernet or wifi laptop/pc, please do so and navigate to the STATUS …. DOCSIS WAN tab, which contains the modem’s signal data.  From the Downstream Overview line, all the way to the bottom of the table, select or highlight that entire table, right click ….. copy.  Then paste that into a new post, right click ….. paste.  That entire table will paste into the post.  If you have a black Hitron CGN3xxx modem, the bottom section of the table will be the Upstream Overview.  If you have a white Hitron CODA-4582, the bottom section will be the OFDM/OFDMA section.  In either case, copy the entire table, down to and including the very bottom section.  With that data, we can see what your current signal levels are and see what, if anything might need to be done.  Here’s what that table looks like for a CODA-4582 modem:

 

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Rogers-Gaming-amp-Streaming-Lab/m-p/447659#M57210

 

Alternatively, if you happen to have an F-81 connector around, you can simply disconnect the amplifier from its power source and the cabling, and connect the incoming cable to the connector and then to the cable that travels up to your modem.  That F-81 connector is the one that is found in wallplates, and is used to connect the house RG-6 cable, to the short RG-6 cable that connects to your modem.  It looks like this:

 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IDEAL-4-Pack-Brass-Screw-on-Adapter/3363004

 

With the external and internal cables connected together, you can keep your modem in place and log into the modem to copy the signal table.

 

If you have any problems logging into the modem or don’t want to do it, with the modem in either configuration listed above, call tech support and ask the Customer Service Rep to run a signal check on the modem.  That’s an automated check to determine if the modem will pass or fail the required signal levels.  Advise the CSR that you have an Antronix 15 dB gain amplifier that is out of the circuit for the test, and that you’re wondering whether or not you really need the amplifier in the first place.  The result of the signal test might be a tech visit if the numbers turn out to be less than ideal. 

 

The problem with amplifiers such as the one that you have is that they hide cable and/or connector problems and the signal issues caused by those problems, so, in order to really determine what the true signal levels are, you have to run a test without the amp in place.  On the Rogers network, you really shouldn’t need an amplifier, so hopefully this will clarify the situation. 

 

The amplifiers that are installed today by Rogers contains a non-amplified port for VOIP and internet use.  That is to ensure that there is no packet loss caused by the amplifier itself.  The same applies to those PPC amplifiers.  So, if you’re going to use the PPC amp as its intended to be used, then the question arises as to what the original signal levels look like, without any amp in place. 

 

Fwiw, the F-81 connectors listed above should be used these days to replace the connectors that are currently installed in your wallplates if those existing wallplate connectors have been in place forever.  The old connectors were suitable for antenna installations or lower frequency use.  The newer F-81 connectors support higher frequencies, including satellite use, but, they will also support the DOCSIS 3.1 frequency extension up to 1218 Mhz.  If you do go out to buy a 4 or 6 pack of connectors such as those, check the packaging.  It should show a frequency range up to 2.4 or 3 Ghz.  Either one will do. 

 

If you do end up installing a larger amp and have unused ports as a result, here’s the terminators that are used to cover the unused port.  These are 2.5 Ghz terminators.  You should be able to find some in a much smaller package ( 4 or 6 ??). 

 

https://www.lowes.ca/product/landscape-lighting-cable-connectors/digiwave-f-terminator-75-ohms-25-gh...

 

Fwiw, if it turns out that you need a tech visit, indicate to the tech that you need a MoCA Point of Entry filter and an amplifier or splitter that is MoCA 2.0 qualified.  There’s a good chance that the tech will have either one with him or her and install that for you at no cost.  You can ask about the cost just to be sure about it.  I don’t think that the PPC amp has a huge cost, but, this might save you a few dollars.

 

Lastly, can you check the back of the modem, specifically the Product Sticker and let me know what model of modem that you have.  If it’s the black Hitron modem, it will be a CGN3xxxx model.  If it’s the white Hitron modem, it will be the CODA-4582 modem. 



Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 591000000 256QAM 7.800 7 40.946
2 597000000 256QAM 7.700 8 40.946
3 603000000 256QAM 7.700 9 40.946
4 855000000 256QAM 5.800 3 38.983
5 861000000 256QAM 5.400 4 38.983
6 579000000 256QAM 7.500 5 40.366
7 585000000 256QAM 7.700 6 40.366
8 849000000 256QAM 6.100 2 38.983
9 609000000 256QAM 7.700 10 40.946
10 615000000 256QAM 8.000 11 40.366
11 621000000 256QAM 8.100 12 40.946
12 633000000 256QAM 8.700 13 40.946
13 639000000 256QAM 8.600 14 40.946
14 645000000 256QAM 8.500 15 40.946
15 651000000 256QAM 8.300 16 40.946
16 657000000 256QAM 8.300 17 40.946
17 663000000 256QAM 8.200 18 40.946
18 669000000 256QAM 8.200 19 40.946
19 675000000 256QAM 8.200 20 40.366
20 681000000 256QAM 8.000 21 40.946
21 687000000 256QAM 7.800 22 40.366
22 693000000 256QAM 7.500 23 40.366
23 699000000 256QAM 7.300 24 40.366
24 705000000 256QAM 7.100 25 40.946
25 711000000 256QAM 7.100 26 40.366
26 717000000 256QAM 6.900 27 40.366
27 723000000 256QAM 6.400 28 40.366
28 825000000 256QAM 6.500 29 40.366
29 831000000 256QAM 6.400 30 40.946
30 837000000 256QAM 6.600 31 40.366
31 843000000 256QAM 6.300 32 40.366
32 279000000 256QAM 7.900 1 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.500000
1 NA NA NO NO NO NA
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.750 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.750 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.000 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

Also, I don't know if this info is need, this is the one WITH the amplifier(tested at where the modem located which is at the main floor NOT at the basement).

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 591000000 256QAM 8.900 7 38.983
2 597000000 256QAM 8.700 8 40.366
3 603000000 256QAM 9.300 9 40.366
4 855000000 256QAM 5.000 3 38.983
5 861000000 256QAM 5.100 4 37.636
6 579000000 256QAM 10.100 5 40.366
7 585000000 256QAM 9.200 6 40.366
8 849000000 256QAM 3.700 2 38.605
9 609000000 256QAM 8.100 10 40.366
10 615000000 256QAM 8.400 11 40.366
11 621000000 256QAM 9.700 12 38.983
12 633000000 256QAM 9.600 13 40.366
13 639000000 256QAM 9.500 14 40.366
14 645000000 256QAM 10.100 15 40.366
15 651000000 256QAM 10.400 16 40.946
16 657000000 256QAM 8.800 17 40.366
17 663000000 256QAM 9.300 18 40.366
18 669000000 256QAM 10.200 19 40.946
19 675000000 256QAM 9.100 20 40.366
20 681000000 256QAM 8.800 21 40.366
21 687000000 256QAM 9.000 22 40.366
22 693000000 256QAM 8.600 23 40.366
23 699000000 256QAM 7.400 24 40.366
24 705000000 256QAM 7.700 25 38.983
25 711000000 256QAM 8.100 26 38.983
26 717000000 256QAM 8.400 27 38.983
27 723000000 256QAM 8.000 28 40.366
28 825000000 256QAM 4.700 29 38.983
29 831000000 256QAM 6.600 30 40.946
30 837000000 256QAM 7.000 31 38.983
31 843000000 256QAM 4.400 32 38.983
32 279000000 256QAM 13.200 1 38.983
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 11.599998
1 NA NA NO NO NO NA
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 35.500 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 41.000 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.500 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

I post a picture of my connections, don't know if this will help.

This is the LINK of this picture, since the forum won't allow inserting pictures bigger than 1MB.

 

https://ibb.co/CzhtTk2

 

smallIMG_1809edited.jpg

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Hi @alan4160 

 

Can you confirm that the first batch of signal levels, without the amp are also without the splitter?  Looking at your signal levels, my personal opinion is that you don’t need an amplifier at all.  If anything, you need a signal attenuator to drop the incoming levels by about 6 dB.  That will also push up the upstream levels at the modem. 

 

The upstream levels are a little low without the amp, but, that’s normal for this modem, so, if you removed the amp completely, you shouldn’t have any problems.  Considering the signal drop due to the splitter, those upstream levels are a little low, but, if you're close to the neighbourhood node, then those numbers might be perfectly fine. 

 

Looking at your picture, it’s a little interesting.  Here’s what I can see from that image:

 

Cable line to modem:

 

Main line -> MoCA -> Splitter -> MoCA -> Amp -> RG-59 -> modem

                        POE                             POE                      cable ??

                        Filter                           Filter                  (tan colour)

 

I can’t tell from the picture, so I’d like you to confirm what is present just ahead of the splitter and just ahead of the amplifier.  I really suspect those are MoCA Point of entry filters.  If so, they should indicate MoCA on the side of the barrel.  They also might be signal attenuators, but I can’t tell from the image.  If they are, you should see a number on the side of the barrels, something like 3, 6, 9 12, or maybe something in between.  That would confirm that they are attenuators and knowing those numbers would help. 

 

Please let me know what you find.  Are you running multiple PVRs that are set up in the Home PVR configuration.  If that the case, then those MoCA (?) filters would make sense.  The first filter just before the splitter protects any MoCA traffic that runs thru that splitter such as the Home PVR MoCA network, from any external MoCA system and prevents any internal MoCA traffic from exiting the home. 

 

Also note, If you are running a Home PVR setup, then that splitter should be a MoCA 1.1 splitter at the very least, preferably a MoCA 2.0 splitter.   

 

After that splitter would be another MoCA filter to protect the modem from the Home PVR network, if in fact it’s a MoCA filter.

 

On the splitter itself you should see two numbers, -3.5 and -7.  Those are the signal drops thru those ports.  Can you also confirm those numbers for me.  Assuming that those are -3.5 and -7 dB ports, you can simply remove the amplifier and connect the second MoCA filter and modem cable to the -3.5 dB port and leave the other cables (tv’s ??) on the -7 dB ports.   That will drop the modem signal levels by 3.5 dB and push up the upstream levels by 3.5 dB.  Lets see how that works out.  I might go further and get you to connect the modem cable to one of the -7 db ports instead, just depends on how the numbers look. 

 

One last item, looking at that image, it looks like the tan cable that comes off of the amplifier is used to feed the modem.  There is another black cable connected to the amp, which I’m assuming is the power supply.  Can you confirm that for me?  If that’s the case, can you have a look at the printing on the side of the tan cable and look for an RG-59 designation.  I suspect that its RG-59, but, just want to be sure.  If that’s the case, that’s less than ideal as RG-59 cable has higher losses in the upper frequency range, which will affect higher frequency cable QAM channels and which will also affect the higher frequency MoCA channels.  If that is RG-59, any chance that you can snake an RG-6 cable up to the same point?   Does that cable run upstairs to the modem?

 

If you look at the signal levels, from the main line and at the modem’s normal location, you can see that the main line signal levels are fairly consistent.  The modem location signal levels have a higher frequency roll-off which is probably indicative of an RG-59 cable, or, some issue with that cable or its connectors.  Those numbers should be very similar to the main line numbers, reduced by the signal drop thru the splitter, as indicated at the connected splitter port.  So they should be fairly consistent throughout the frequency range, as can be seen from the main line signal levels.

 

It would be interesting to see the modem location signal levels without the amplifier, simply connect the modem cable to the splitter with the secondary MoCA(?) filter attached as well.

 

That black RG-6(?) cable, that you’re not sure about, is probably a cable that feeds a location in one of the rooms upstairs.  If you looked behind all of the upstairs wallplates, you’ll probably find the other end of that cable. 

 

That should do it for now.  Hopefully this all makes sense.  Please let me know if you're not sure of anything that I have posted.  Can you:

 

  1. Confirm that the first batch of signal levels, without the amp are also without the splitter?  I wasn't aware of the splitter's presence, otherwise I would have instructed you to disconnect everything from the main line and connect the modem to that line. 
  2. Confirm what it printed on the side of those two barrels, MoCA or dB drop number;
  3. Indicate whether or not you’re running Home PVR which accesses multiple PVRs.
  4. Confirm the cable type, as indicated on the side of the tan cable connected to the amp.
  5. When you have time, copy and post the signal levels at the modem’s normal location without the amp in the network. Disconnect the amp completely.  Connect the modem’s cable directly to the splitter, with the MoCA filter still attached as well. 


Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

Hi there, I forgot to mention the MoCA filters are not installed previously, they were installed by myself (was planning to make a MoCA network).

 

I will post 3 testing pictures, ALL of them are connected to main line DIRECTLY.

======================================================================

Direct connect mainline with new F-81 connector but without any filter.

============================================

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 591000000 256QAM 7.900 7 40.946
2 597000000 256QAM 7.600 8 40.366
3 603000000 256QAM 7.800 9 40.366
4 855000000 256QAM 5.800 3 38.605
5 861000000 256QAM 5.600 4 38.605
6 579000000 256QAM 7.600 5 40.366
7 585000000 256QAM 7.700 6 40.946
8 849000000 256QAM 6.300 2 38.983
9 609000000 256QAM 7.900 10 40.366
10 615000000 256QAM 8.100 11 40.366
11 621000000 256QAM 8.200 12 40.946
12 633000000 256QAM 8.700 13 40.946
13 639000000 256QAM 8.600 14 40.946
14 645000000 256QAM 8.500 15 40.366
15 651000000 256QAM 8.300 16 40.946
16 657000000 256QAM 8.200 17 40.946
17 663000000 256QAM 8.100 18 40.366
18 669000000 256QAM 8.200 19 40.366
19 675000000 256QAM 8.200 20 40.366
20 681000000 256QAM 8.100 21 40.946
21 687000000 256QAM 7.800 22 40.366
22 693000000 256QAM 7.500 23 40.946
23 699000000 256QAM 7.400 24 40.366
24 705000000 256QAM 7.300 25 40.366
25 711000000 256QAM 7.100 26 40.946
26 717000000 256QAM 7.000 27 40.366
27 723000000 256QAM 6.500 28 40.366
28 825000000 256QAM 6.700 29 40.366
29 831000000 256QAM 6.600 30 40.366
30 837000000 256QAM 6.800 31 40.946
31 843000000 256QAM 6.400 32 40.366
32 279000000 256QAM 8.100 1 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.599998
1 NA NA NO NO NO NA
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 28.750 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 30.750 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 26.750 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

==================================================

Direct connect mainline with Antronix filter GLF-1002 (I think this is also a MoCA filter)

==================================================

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 645000000 256QAM 8.600 15 40.946
2 591000000 256QAM 8.000 7 40.946
3 597000000 256QAM 8.000 8 40.366
4 849000000 256QAM 6.100 2 40.366
5 855000000 256QAM 5.700 3 38.983
6 861000000 256QAM 5.300 4 38.605
7 579000000 256QAM 7.900 5 40.366
8 585000000 256QAM 8.000 6 40.946
9 603000000 256QAM 8.200 9 40.946
10 609000000 256QAM 8.200 10 40.366
11 615000000 256QAM 8.300 11 40.946
12 621000000 256QAM 8.400 12 40.946
13 633000000 256QAM 8.800 13 40.946
14 639000000 256QAM 8.800 14 40.946
15 279000000 256QAM 8.100 1 40.946
16 651000000 256QAM 8.400 16 40.946
17 657000000 256QAM 8.300 17 40.946
18 663000000 256QAM 8.300 18 40.946
19 669000000 256QAM 8.300 19 40.946
20 675000000 256QAM 8.300 20 40.366
21 681000000 256QAM 8.200 21 40.366
22 687000000 256QAM 8.000 22 40.366
23 693000000 256QAM 7.700 23 40.946
24 699000000 256QAM 7.500 24 40.946
25 705000000 256QAM 7.300 25 40.946
26 711000000 256QAM 7.200 26 40.366
27 717000000 256QAM 7.100 27 40.946
28 723000000 256QAM 6.800 28 40.366
29 825000000 256QAM 6.600 29 40.366
30 831000000 256QAM 6.400 30 40.366
31 837000000 256QAM 6.600 31 40.946
32 843000000 256QAM 6.300 32 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.699997
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.250 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

==================================================

Direct connect mainline with Holland MoCA filter, Model: MPOE-TM

=================================================

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 645000000 256QAM 8.500 15 40.366
2 591000000 256QAM 7.800 7 40.946
3 597000000 256QAM 7.700 8 40.946
4 849000000 256QAM 6.000 2 38.983
5 855000000 256QAM 5.500 3 38.983
6 861000000 256QAM 5.200 4 38.605
7 579000000 256QAM 7.500 5 40.366
8 585000000 256QAM 7.700 6 40.366
9 603000000 256QAM 7.800 9 40.946
10 609000000 256QAM 8.000 10 40.946
11 615000000 256QAM 8.000 11 40.366
12 621000000 256QAM 8.200 12 40.946
13 633000000 256QAM 8.700 13 40.946
14 639000000 256QAM 8.600 14 40.366
15 279000000 256QAM 8.000 1 40.946
16 651000000 256QAM 8.300 16 40.366
17 657000000 256QAM 8.200 17 40.946
18 663000000 256QAM 8.100 18 40.946
19 669000000 256QAM 8.200 19 40.366
20 675000000 256QAM 8.200 20 40.946
21 681000000 256QAM 8.000 21 40.946
22 687000000 256QAM 7.800 22 40.366
23 693000000 256QAM 7.500 23 40.946
24 699000000 256QAM 7.300 24 40.366
25 705000000 256QAM 7.200 25 40.946
26 711000000 256QAM 7.100 26 40.366
27 717000000 256QAM 7.100 27 40.946
28 723000000 256QAM 6.700 28 40.946
29 825000000 256QAM 6.500 29 40.946
30 831000000 256QAM 6.300 30 40.366
31 837000000 256QAM 6.400 31 40.366
32 843000000 256QAM 6.100 32 40.366
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 7.699997
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.250 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 27.250 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

 

I also checked the "WHITE" cables connecting to the splitters and amplifiers, they are

RG-6 FOAM 18 AWG 75C (UL) E111378A C12 CSA LL77501 FT-1 "OR" CATV E135174A

 

The cable which I labelled "no idea what that is" has the following writing:

COMMSCOPE INC. E113333A CM OR CATV (UL)C(UL) CMG 18 AWG

 

Also, the SHORT BLACK CABLE connect from the splitter to amplifier has NO writing on it at all, so I am not sure what the cable is, and the other black cable is the power supply for amp.

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

 

As for the "tan color not white" cable, I couldn't find the writing, the rest of the cable is too far to reach or see.

 

I am now sure how can I determine if I am near what you called "neighborhood node".

 

As for the "Home PVR" thing, I am also not sure either, since currently we have no TVs at home, but the former house owner might? Again, I am not sure, soory 😞

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

That tan cable is probably thinner than the other black or white RG-6 cables.  By looking at it, you'll probably be able to see that its a thinner cable which would indicate that its an RG-59 cable.  RG-6 is the preferred cable.   What you could do is pull the wallplate off of the wall upstairs and see if there is any specs printed on the cable jacket at that end.  I'm still guessing thats an RG-59 cable, just from the colour itself. 

 

Ok, looking around for the MoCA filter specs, it looks like the Antronix filter should be the preferred filter.  You should see a pass band and Rejection band number set on those filters. 

 

The Antronix GLF-1002 filter Rejection band runs from 1125 to 2005 Mhz, which is good for MoCA 2.0.

 

The Holland electronics MPOE-TM looks like a discontinued product and appears to have a Rejection band that runs from 1125 to 1525 Mhz, which is only good for MoCA 1.1   In theory, at the upper frequency range, the rejection loss should continue or drop even further, so you should be fine with that filter.  I can't find any archived data on that filter for some reason.  I'll have a look around later tonight.  

 

There is a newer version of the Holland Electronics filters, specifically the MoCA-IHF and MoCA-CM.  The MoCA-CM has a higher rejection loss in the 1125 to 2000 Mhz range.  Both of those are rated up to 3000 Mhz.  Given a choice, the MoCA-CM is the better selection, however, if you have one or two of the Antronix MoCA filters on hand, I'd use those.  If not, put the Antronix filter on the main line and the Holland Electronics MoCA filter on the Modem itself, as you're probably going to be using that modem line for MoCA ops.  So, the filter, located at the modem will protect the modem from any MoCA signals.

 

Edit:  For now I'd disconnect the amplifier completely, move one of the MoCA filters and install it on the modem and connect the modem cable to the splitter, first try the 3.5 dB port.  Lets see what happens to the upper frequencies.  I suspect that with that tan cable, you're going to take a real hit in terms of signal loss at the upper frequencies that MoCA 2.0 uses.  That will drop the data rates with those adapters, not due to the adapters themselves, but due to the signal loss in that cable at higher frequencies. 

 

Here's the product sheet for the MPOE-TM filter:

 

https://www.techtoolsupply.info/manuals/hol-mpoe-tm.pdf

 

which comes from this page:

 

https://www.techtoolsupply.com/Holland-MoCA-POE-Filter-p/hol-mpoe-tm.htm

 

Here's the newer filters from Holland Electronics:

 

http://www.hollandelectronics.com/pdf/MoCA-Series-Filters-1.6.pdf

 

None of those filters are suitable for DOCSIS 3.1 which requires a pass band up to 1218 Mhz.  For now, don't worry about it as that frequency extension probably won't happen for a while.  

 



Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

 

UPDATE:

 

Hi there,  thanks again for spending all those time typing and explaining everything to me, thank you so much.

Also, I found the other side of the "tan color cable" upstairs in THREE rooms (all of them has  the tan color cable),

but the writing is still no clear, I can only see PARTIAL of the writing on the cables, sorry 😞

(cable from one room has writing "property of  shaw cable Belden-T    YV29895 SER....", can't see the rest)

(cable from another room has the writing in the following pictures)  That's all I got.

 

And I am assuming that these "tan color" cables are not for the internet? I tried to connect the modem with them, no internet connection.

 

IMG_1822small.jpgIMG_1823small.jpgIMG_1824small.jpg

 

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

I'm assuming that you might be in an older home?  If so, then those tan cables make sense, as they were installed for analogue tv signals.  Time has passed by, analogue tv is gone and now everything is digital.  

 

The RG-59 cables have about 1.4 to 2 db higher loss than RG-6 cables, which isn't very much.  The bigger problem is that the center copper conductor is smaller and there isn't anywhere near the amount of shielding around the dielectric that surrounds the copper center conductor.  So, the lesser amount of shielding makes the cable more susceptible to external interference. 

 

However, it is what it is and if there isn't a way to snake another cable upstairs from the electrical panel, then you'll have to judge whether all of the effort is worth it, when its up and running.  For now, I'd say carry on and lets see what the final product looks like.  It will work, but, it won't work to the same level as if you had RG-6 cabling throughout the home.  

 

Here' a chart that shows the losses in RG-59, RG-6 and the heavier RG-11 cabling.  Your main interest at this point is in the 1125 to 1675 Mhz range.  Those losses are for 100 Foot or 100 Metre lengths of cable:

 

https://www.multicominc.com/wp-content/uploads/Attenuation.pdf

 

To determine which tan cable is which (upstairs and downstairs), you can use something like the following ethernet and cable tester:

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Sperry-Instruments-TT64202-Tester-Master/dp/B004Y75B5Y/ref=asc_df_B004Y75B5Y/?...

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Southwire-Tools-Equipment-M550-Continuity/dp/B01ADWQ94A

 

Edit:  for those two bottom pictures, if you loosed up that bottom clip at the back of the electrical box, you could probably pull out more of that cable to see what else is printed on the cable jacket.  This looks like Belden e108998 coac cable.  Can't find the specs at the moment, so I'll have to search for this later.  This is a coax cable correct?  I've run across multi-conductor cable in my search which doesn't make any sense. 

 

 



Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

 

Hi there,

I removed the amplifier, below is the picture of the current setup and the tested information.

main line -> antronix poe filter -> antronix 3-way splitter 5-1002MHz CMC2003H

 

only one antronix poe filter was used, but I have a few more, do I need to use more?

 

Also, I have holland 3-way moca splitter (GHS-3PRO-M 5-1675MHz) and 4-way moca splitter (GHS-3PRO-M 5-1675MHz), should I use one of them instead?

 

Clear image link: https://ibb.co/xCdHhMn

 

IMG_1826small.jpg

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 645000000 256QAM -4.300 15 37.356
2 591000000 256QAM -6.700 7 36.387
3 597000000 256QAM -6.200 8 36.610
4 849000000 256QAM -8.900 2 35.595
5 855000000 256QAM -8.500 3 35.595
6 861000000 256QAM -10.000 4 34.926
7 579000000 256QAM -4.600 5 37.636
8 585000000 256QAM -5.800 6 37.356
9 603000000 256QAM -5.000 9 37.356
10 609000000 256QAM -5.800 10 37.356
11 615000000 256QAM -5.300 11 37.636
12 621000000 256QAM -4.600 12 37.636
13 633000000 256QAM -4.700 13 37.356
14 639000000 256QAM -4.700 14 37.356
15 279000000 256QAM -1.800 1 37.356
16 651000000 256QAM -4.300 16 37.636
17 657000000 256QAM -6.300 17 36.610
18 663000000 256QAM -5.400 18 37.636
19 669000000 256QAM -4.500 19 37.356
20 675000000 256QAM -5.800 20 37.356
21 681000000 256QAM -6.400 21 36.610
22 687000000 256QAM -5.600 22 37.356
23 693000000 256QAM -5.400 23 37.356
24 699000000 256QAM -6.100 24 37.356
25 705000000 256QAM -6.200 25 37.356
26 711000000 256QAM -6.200 26 36.610
27 717000000 256QAM -6.600 27 37.356
28 723000000 256QAM -7.500 28 36.387
29 825000000 256QAM -9.500 29 35.084
30 831000000 256QAM -7.700 30 36.610
31 837000000 256QAM -7.400 31 36.610
32 843000000 256QAM -8.800 32 35.595
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES -3.200001
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 35.500 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 39.500 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.500 2 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

??  Wow, so that's main line > POE filter > Antronix Splitter > Cable modem  

 

With the cable modem located in its normal location, so that you're using the tan cable to connect from the splitter, thru the walls to the modem location?  Just want to be sure here.   That's one heck of a drop connected thru the - 3.5 dB port.

 

Here's the spec sheet for the cable.  If you were able to pull more of that cable out of the electrical box, then you should be able to match the jacket details to the Product Print Legend as shown in the Final Assembly area.

 

https://secure.libertycable.com/RUB_IMAGES/images/spec/BEL9118%20Specification.pdf

 

Edit:  how were you intending to install the adapters?  On the same cable that runs to the modem I presume?  Or is there another cable present that you were intending to use?

 

That cable is an RG-6 cable, so, a large signal drop might signify a problem with the cable itself, somewhere in the walls.  You should also inspect the cable ends to ensure that the center copper conductor is free and clear of any of the surrounding shield material, which would short out the copper conductor.  If you disconnect that cable at both ends, you can clean off the center copper conductor with a piece of sandpaper or with a sharp knife.  Typically a tech would cut the ends off and install a new connector on clean copper. 

 

You only need to use two POE filters, one on the main line and one on the modem, located at the modem itself.  

 

If you have the adapters onsite and you're ready to give this a go, you can swap out the Antronix splitter for either of the Holland splitters.  You don't want to have any unused ports if that's possible. 

 

Thinking aloud here, I'm wondering if there isn't a splitter buried in a wall somewhere.  If you had a cable tester, I'd connect the one end to the downstairs cable, then run around upstairs testing all of the cables to confirm or deny that thought.  You have somewhere around a 13 dB drop from downstairs to that last connection point, so, if that's upstairs, you should be seeing around a 5 dB drop, if that.  So, there's another 7 dB drop or so, taking place for some reason.  

 

So there's only one tan cable visible at the electrical panel, and more than one room upstairs with tan cabling present?  Is the attic accessible to have a quick look for cabling, and / or is there any crawlspace anywhere or hidden closet that might just have some cabling running thru it?

 



Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

alan4160
I Plan to Stick Around

@Datalink 

 

This is the info. with the exact setup, except this time I used a holland 3-way moca splitter GHS-3BPRO-M.

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 639000000 256QAM -7.300 14 34.484
2 591000000 256QAM -8.900 7 33.487
3 597000000 256QAM -8.400 8 33.957
4 849000000 256QAM -11.100 2 32.963
5 855000000 256QAM -10.900 3 32.963
6 861000000 256QAM -12.500 4 31.404
7 579000000 256QAM -6.700 5 35.595
8 585000000 256QAM -8.200 6 34.346
9 603000000 256QAM -7.400 9 34.484
10 609000000 256QAM -8.200 10 33.957
11 615000000 256QAM -7.600 11 34.346
12 621000000 256QAM -6.900 12 34.926
13 633000000 256QAM -6.900 13 35.084
14 279000000 256QAM -3.800 1 35.595
15 645000000 256QAM -6.600 15 35.780
16 651000000 256QAM -6.700 16 35.595
17 657000000 256QAM -8.800 17 33.957
18 663000000 256QAM -7.700 18 34.926
19 669000000 256QAM -6.900 19 35.084
20 675000000 256QAM -8.300 20 34.484
21 681000000 256QAM -8.700 21 33.957
22 687000000 256QAM -8.200 22 34.346
23 693000000 256QAM -7.700 23 34.926
24 699000000 256QAM -8.200 24 34.484
25 705000000 256QAM -8.600 25 34.346
26 711000000 256QAM -8.600 26 33.957
27 717000000 256QAM -8.900 27 34.346
28 723000000 256QAM -10.100 28 33.063
29 825000000 256QAM -11.900 29 32.237
30 831000000 256QAM -10.000 30 33.834
31 837000000 256QAM -9.600 31 34.346
32 843000000 256QAM -11.300 32 32.963
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES -5.200001
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 35.500 2 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 41.500 3 3200000
3 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 36.250 1 6400000
OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
Topic Stats
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