Should you give your social insurance number to an internet provider?

[rendel101]

I am trying to get Rogers Internet into my mother's senior home. I called last night and spend substantial time on the phone. An option was given to me for a call back. The wait time was about 30 minutes. My request was for a quote for Internet. Incorrectly I was informed that I had to set up an account first. During this set up which I did on behalf of my mother I was asked for her driver license. I indicated that she no longer drives and her license was replaced with a provincial identification card. Apparently it was not possible to use this government issued ID as Rogers requires a driver license. (Not sure how you can get a Roger's service if you don't drive) I ended up supplying my license for identification. After we set up the account the Roger's representative had issues with the Roger's site and was unable to give me a quote but suggested to call back the next morning using my newly created account number.

I called back the next morning and I was given many options. One of the options was for a new customer. I selected this option and it took me to a menu that was clearly for an existing customer. Lost equipment etc. None of this applied for a new customer and I selected an option to buy additional services. After some time I got an agent. It was established that this agent was unable to help and the agent suggested to connect me to the proper department. After the transfer I received a recorded message that the department was presently closed and no business hours were indicated in this message.

After this I called the same number again and selected the call back option. I received a call back about 20 minutes later and this agent ended up in informing me that the service was not available in my Mother’s building even though many neighbours in this building are using Roger's. I went on the Roger's availability site myself and it appeared on my end that this building was serviced by Rogers. Since the agent was unable to resolve this issue I was transferred to the Roger's Ignite department. It is unclear to me at this time why I was not transferred in the beginning. I tried to log onto the Roger’s site to create a new account for my mother so that I could do all this on line. Since my mother is old I decided to use my email instead of hers. This would make it easier to support this service. Here is a new problem. I was a Roger’s customer in the past and this email is still on file. I cannot create a new account using an email on file. This would have been good information during the set up of this account.

I did get a call back from Roger’s Ignite and It was all very time consuming. I was asked for two pieces of identification, one being a social insurance number. If you go to the government web site it clearly states that you should never give your social insurance number to an internet provider. Social Insurance Number: Protecting your SIN - Canada.ca

In the end the connection was lost. My phone at this point was also running out of battery as we were approaching the three hour mark. I spend around five hours on the phone and I ended up with a dropped call and no service.

As Canadians we unfortunately have no choice but to put up to this type of disrespect to our time and our wallet.

*** Edited Labels ***

[mebe]

Welcome to the community.

First of all, I'm just a customer, with a big mouth and a curious mind.

I've seen the answers to all of your questions, already scattered throughout these forums. 

Many of the things you were told were incorrect.

If you want to see the types of Govt ID Rogers accepts, you can simply go to the top of this page and use the Search bar to type the name of the following thread: Health Card not Accepted as ID 

Once in that thread, you'll notice that of the 2 pieces of ID required, one of them has to have a photo. 

So why isn't the Social Insurance Number mentioned there! That's because only agents working on behalf of Rogers tend to push the SIN# if you have no drivers licence.

Once you get asked for your SIN#, you are most likely speaking to a third-party agent working for ZEDD Customer Solutions (which also has its own thread) on behalf of Rogers. 

It's not that they are trying to steal your identity, in fact, much of your important customer info is blocked, or greyed-out, from their view. They can give you their Rogers/ZEDD ID number, but it's a pain to verify. Once they've opened your account, ZEDD will most likely call you repeatedly, and if you don't stay on the line long enough to hear them say hello, they will keep hanging up.

Since your mother's in a senior's home, they might have an agent working on behalf of Rogers (or a real one), that can only help new customers, or any previous customer that has been gone from Rogers for more than 3 months. They often have good deals, perhaps not the same good/great deals that ZEDD has to offer, but if you get their Rogers business card from the Seniors home, you might prefer doing business with Rogers that way.

Of course, you can always contact @CommunityHelps by sending them a private message (perhaps RogersZia herself).

Or you can complain to the Office of the President, by scrolling down the page to "Contact Us" and then when you arrive on the next page, scroll down to "Share a Concern" and then simply copy what you posted into the box. For customer account number, I'm not sure if your old account number will work, but since you were able to login and post here, you should be fine.

If I were you, I would file a complaint, so that somebody else is making sure you don't get lied to again.

Thank you for your interesting post  👏🚨

[mebe]

For the in-store purchase, one piece of ID must have the address on it, but since the typical photo ID accepted also has the address on it, I assume the form of payment or bank info completes any deal. If not, I've been lucky so far.

Over the phone, the Govt ID and/or bank info can vary, like even providing the bank transit number, etc., although I'm not sure if that's only something agents ask for if you don't offer up other financial info.

It's been a while since I needed to do anything that requires me to jump through hoops, but if some online agent software restricts what it can accept, then a good old-fashioned SIN# might be too tempting for many to turn down, if asked to provide it.

I assume that soon we'll find out how common it is for the SIN# to be given up, even if the customer has a Provincial Photo ID card, etc.

[OLDYELLR]

According to the Government of Canada:

"

1. Never give out your SIN unless you are sure it is legally required or you are satisfied it is necessary.
   • You must provide your SIN to take part in some government programs and/or services. For example, the Canada Revenue Agency requires your SIN when you file your income tax, or when you apply for Employment Insurance (EI) or Canada Pension Plan (CPP)/ Retraite Québec benefits
   • In the private sector, you must provide your SIN to your employer for income tax and benefit purposes. You must also give it to financial institutions for accounts that pay interest
   • Except when required for government programs and services, it is your decision when to share your SIN information and with whom."
2.  If your primary email address is already registered with Rogers, get an additional one. If your ISP does not have that option, get a Gmail one.

[mebe]

So I went to an empty Rogers store and asked 1 of the 3 guys about this SIN# nonsense, but it's still an option they give people if you don't have photo ID. The guy even said that some people come to the store with just a passport and a CC, and they can sign up, with the address they want the modem and tv box shipped to . They should be asked for something with an address, but that guy didn't care. And still no SIN card needed.

So obviously an Ontario photo card and CC, (or bank card and cheque perhaps), also gets you the goods without needing a SIN card at the store.

You can do the Grab and Go option, taking the equipment home right away, with no installation charge (since you do the install), or you can have the equipment shipped by Canada Post for $49, but if asked, they can waive that installation fee, or whatever it is.

However, once you are ordering online, the agents love to use the SIN# to run a hard credit check that is apparently more thorough, than what you can get with that Ontario Photo card. I'm just not sure how many online agents (Rogers or Zedd) will be willing to let go of their SIN# addiction.

[OLDYELLR]

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@mebe wrote:

So I went to an empty Rogers store and asked 1 of the 3 guys about this SIN# nonsense, but it's still an option they give people if you don't have photo ID. 

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But how would Rogers verify who you are from a SIN?  Unless you produce a tax or employment document with it and your name and address? No business can verify who you are from just a quoted number.

[mebe]

By the way, just because a SIN# is often asked for and accepted by a phone agent, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can walk into a store (even the same one I did), find an experienced store employee (comfortable with odd situations), and then provide only a credit card and your memorized SIN# without getting laughed at ... Because without the actual SIN card itself, where's your necessary piece of Govt ID? It's not on the in-store official list of accepted ID, but I was just assuming somebody without a driver's license, would bring the actual, physical SIN card with them. Until I actually go back with just a SIN card and a credit card (speak to the same employee), and see if the in-store computer system actually puts everything through (perhaps partly depending on past accounts , or current one), I can't possibly know for sure what would happen, or the odds of finding an employee that even knows that it's possible simply because that employee has successfully completed such a transaction several times each year. All of that sounds like a disclaimer to me, but it should be much easier to pull the SIN card move, than perhaps finding a store employee willing to take back Ignite equipment (even though it does happen, for whatever reason(s).

Edit: Bringing proof of my current address, via a recent bill, etc., would also be something that I would do. Most employees might feel more comfortable with that address, especially if no photo ID is shown. In fact, I think some Rogers stores will expect you to show photo ID at the door before they let you in (robbery fears).

[OLDYELLR]

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@mebe wrote:

By the way, just because a SIN# is often asked for and accepted by a phone agent, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can walk into a store (even the same one I did), find an experienced store employee (comfortable with odd situations), and then provide only a credit card and your memorized SIN# without getting laughed at ... Because without the actual SIN card itself, where's your necessary piece of Govt ID?

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I didn't think just quoting a 9-digit number would work. I never had a "SIN Card", just a paper slip in my wallet 30-40 years ago, which bit the dust long ago. Now, apparently such cards are discontinued and it's back to paper certificates. 

https://sincanada.ca/how-to-replace-my-sin-card/

[Pauly]

 When I was a teenager I signed up for Rogers and back then I never even had a SIN card but was able to sign up for their service. you can provide other forms of ID if a SIN card is not available.  and just because they say SIN CARD, does not mean it has to be a physical card, sin card can mean the printed paper you get from service canada since they stopped producing cards

[whynow]

On the " it greyed-out" while we do sometimes talk to customer support based in other countries who have some access to our data, (my pet peeve is my birthdate) we also have to consider hackers getting our data as it happens often these days and while it may be grayed out for the CRS , hackers will get it.

[whynow]

So I also had a more recent experience with a CSR, who was Rogers Mobile east as she was part of the Connect for Success team creating an account for me because I only have Shaw internet.

Asked for 2 government IDs. DL was no problem but she listed SIN and passport as a second. I paused and said neither of those have anything to do with a telco. She said in that case I can't open an account for you.

I was thinking but not asking what is the point if getting a number when she can't verify it ?! In person they sometimes take photocopies or at least look at the ids but now on the phone ?! Just data collection.

We are often offered these impossible choices these days ...... do you want this ? ...... then accept this or else. Sad.

I told her maybe I will think about this (I have old certification of citizenship which has a number and a photo and she said no, can't) and I said I will think about this and call back when she said she can accept CC as a second ID.

That I can change any time so I don't mind giving that out, but I can't change my BD or SIN# so I find those to be vital info.  

I don't think I can list a company that I didn't have such (or different) problems. 2024. Way to much abuse or lawlessness in the name of business.

[57]

A SIN number should never be given to anyone outside of the government recommendations.  See applicable link below:

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/sin/protection.html

[Datalink]

From the following page, I have copied the relevant sections pertaining to the request for SIN from customers:

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/sins-and-drivers-licences/social-insurance-numbers/protecti...

When do I have to provide my SIN?

There are a few federal government departments and programs specifically authorized to collect the SIN.

Some private-sector organizations must also collect the SIN for income reporting purposes.

Service Canada, the federal government department responsible for the administration of the SIN, has identified some of the most common uses of the SIN on its website.

Note for Quebec residents: Hydro Québec is required by provincial law to collect a SIN for opening new accounts.

When don’t I have to provide my SIN?

Some organizations ask for the SIN for reasons unrelated to income reporting purposes – often because it is a simple method of identification.

While this is not recommended, there is no law preventing private-sector organizations from asking for the SIN for other purposes such as identification.

In these cases, you are under no obligation to provide your SIN. Just because someone asks for your SIN, it doesn’t mean that you have to provide it.

On its website, Service Canada lists some examples of when you do not need to provide your SIN.

What should I do if I am asked for my SIN?

We recommend that you do not give the SIN to a private-sector organization unless there is a legal requirement to do so.

If you are asked for your SIN, here are some tips:

1,  Ask if you are required by law to provide it.

2.  Ask why the person needs it, how it will be used and to whom it will be given.

3.  If it is not required by law (and you are not satisfied with the explanation), tell the person you prefer not to use the SIN and offer other identification. Your SIN is not a piece of identification.

4.  If you can’t resolve your concern with front-line staff, ask for the contact information for the person in their organization who is responsible for privacy issues. This person is often called the privacy officer. Discuss your concerns with that person. They may be able to address your issue.

If the organization refuses to give you the product or service unless you give your SIN, file a complaint with us. https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/report-a-concern/

Remember: You can’t be denied a product or service for refusing to provide your SIN when it’s not legally required.

[-G-]

@whynow  It's not illegal for businesses to ask for your SIN but it is very sensitive information, and the only times when you must provide it is when when that business needs to report income to the government -- e.g. when you get hired by new employer or open a bank account.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/sin/protection.html

Rogers should be able to open an account if you provide them with a driver's license and major credit card.  That should be sufficient for them to perform a credit check.  You will probably also need to provide your date of birth.

[Datalink]

Lol, I think we're all in agreement, that is to say:  NO

[whynow]

Or Passport # .  Passport is for traveling.

I had further dealing with Rogers today and the incompetency was comical but I also had similar with Telus so what can we do.

Also, one ID was enough today.

Optional reading:

She could not open my rogers mobile account yesterday because the call was transferred and the system didn't allow the entry for the CC. Then she called me and that was the same.

I wasn't in a hurry with this so today I look at an previous MyRogers account and found it working.

Sure it said account closed (account# A) but the rest of my info was there.

I verified the email, phone # was good I needed to update the address. During this, it sends a verification email. Which arrived but not to the email listed on the account but probably an email associated with the so called canceled account. Confusing. Lets separate account (comes with a number for mobile or internet) and MyRogers account that has to do with a "Username and profile etc) .

So (phone)account was canceled, Username account was live and change the address even so it said "sorry there was a problem and I have to call" .

So first I called them and asked to set up an account and told them I have Fido now and I also gave him the cancelled account number and he opened the account with only the DL # !!!  Ok fine.

Later I discovered from my email that he started a new MyRogers account because it used my email as a login. 😞

So instead of using the old MyRogers account, trying to start a new one. I did nothing with that yet, as I wanted to remove the old email from the old MyRogers but he didn't see two addresses so he transferred me to tech support. I said to the tech, I have two email addresses I would like to delete one or make both the same.

The tech support did not even understand it. You have problem with you yahoo address contact yahoo and such.

I said thank you and hung up.

I got on chat.

I was logged into MyRogers (the old as I did nothing with the new) and started chat and when I got to the person I said the same about the two emails. "what you want the email to be ?" , I answered. "I sent you link now please follow that. ..... I received an email to change my FIDO password. face in palm.

Then I explained that this was about Rogers and I don't know why it recognised my Fido account, etc. so he undid the change of email and FIDO is back as it was.

Then tried again with the two email addresses. He only see one.

Tried to send him a link where I show on the picture the email than I got for verification ..... he can't look at pictures in chat or follow link outside and so keep insisting that I have only one email. Considering one is yahoo the other is proton, not hard to know that there are two. 

So now I am about to start my .... 4th account ? .... I have internet with Shaw (so Rogers now) login at shaw.ca

I have fido phone that I will change to rogers but for now I have a Fido account.

I have an only MyRogers with current info but old and cancelled account that has an email that I don't want. And then if I follow the link sent me for the new roger mobile, I will have new MyRogers account as it is a new username (which he didn't tell me as I would have said ... wait a minute .. )

What a mess.

[Dave286]

Absolutely no reason to 

[Pauly]

I never gave my social insurance number to rogers, I asked for alternative means to validate my account and went with it.

[whynow]

To make it more interesting.

I still didn't set up my new Rogers phone on the web, but today I got an email, saying your new account is now active (no sim yet) and they sent this email to my FIDO email address ..... lol lol lol  😂 lol advanced tech company lol lol lol 😀 

[FredGarvin]

I said NO earlier this afternoon to a retention person.

Now I'll have to leave Rogers when the legacy cable finally dies.

She said she cannot add Ignite to my existing account of 36 years and has to open a new one with ID and a credit check.  Foolishly I gave her my SIN and drivers license but because I wouldn't authorize a credit check show would not open a new account. 

[MyBoo4vr]

Funny should find these posts. I was lied to for years by Rogers, regarding disability discount program(s). I have been with Rogers for years, and have asked for years if they had a discount for permanently disabled people (ODSP). Last year, I finally learned about and was accepted into the Accessibility program. It wasn’t much but it was something. This past September I learned about the Connected for Success program, which offers a much larger discount. They lied repeatedly before I learned about this. Not only that, according to the Telecom Regulatory Policy, CRTC 2023–41, (23 Feb2023) Rogers has continually defied the directives of the CRTC.
Here’s the kicker,…I was told that to apply I just had to provide proof of being on ODSP, so I mailed a copy of my statement (with personal info (account etc.) blocked out, as requested. Yesterday I received their email to call them to activate the plan, and have
ready to provide, 2 pieces of ID (Driver’s Licence, SIN #, etc), my phone number (already on file), and my postal code (also, already on file).
So yes, Rogers does ask for you SIN #, which is absolutely contrary to the Government of Canada site regarding SIN #,…” your SIN # is confidential. Do not use it as an identification or provided for a job application, rental application, etc.”
Perhaps it’s time the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada addresses this issue with Rogers.