[Not] Connecting Amazon Fire TV Cube (3rd gen) to Ignite Xi6 Box

[griwei]

The 3rd gen Cube has an HDMI input, which is supposed to enable it to control more cable boxes. Amazon expressly lists Roger’s Ignite boxes as compatible, but I cannot manage to connect them for the life of me. I’ve tried to connect using the HDMI connection. No luck.  I’ve also tried both line of sight IR (at 2 inches distance between Cube and box, as apparently the Cube has lots of IR outputs) as well as using an IR blaster with the Cube at a distance of only 1/2 an inch. Same thing happens: it appears to try to use the codes it has stored for Roger’s Ignite boxes and they fail.

I subsequently tried Arris codes too and eventually had the Cube manage to change channels after many attempts, but the connection it established was ultimately unsatisfactory because the Cube couldn’t adequately control the box using voice commands such as “tune to CNN”  whereas it could handle “go to channel 33”.

I’m really surprised this has been so difficult, given the alleged compatibility. I don’t understand why the HDMI-based approach failed and I’m starting to wonder if the Xi6 box can only receive RF-based commands (which I suppose the Amazon’s cube and remote don’t do).

I did notice that one can specially enter an IR code in the Cube’s advanced control section and wonder if that could be used to force-feed the correct IR code for the Rogers box?  But i cannot find that code anyway anyway.

So, I guess what I cam saying is

“Somebody please, pretty please, help me!”

**Labels Added**

[RogersYasmine]

Hello @griwei,

Thanks for sharing your Amazon Fire TV Cube concerns here in the Rogers Community! I'm sure you are anxious to get it set up. 🙂

Unfortunately, as this is considered third party equipment, it is not supported by Rogers from a technical standpoint. By any chance, does Amazon provide a manual or a support avenue that you can reach out to for some further assistance with the hook-up? 

I'm hoping someone in the Rogers community may have some experience with this particular device and will chime in with some advice or recommendations as well. 

I'll also tag in some of our RE's in case they have any input on the matter: @-G-, @57

Kind regards,

RogersYasmine

[-G-]

I have never tried testing this configuration, nor do I have an Amazon Fire TV Cube to test with either.  However, I do know for sure that both the Xi6 and XiOne set-top boxes can be controlled by IR.... but they also require an IR remote (or IR blaster) to be pointed very DIRECTLY at their IR receiver.

[griwei]

I spent 1.5 hours on the phone with an Amazon tech, basically retracing all of the steps I had previously taken . The outcome was escalation of the ticket, which should occur sometime next week.

[As an aside…

I should mention that the tech first tried to shift responsibility to Rogers. Being a lawyer, I was immediately able to explain why his company was the one responsible, not Rogers. Rogers promises to provide me with cable TV service using its equipment. If I choose to substitute different equipment to control Rogers’ box, that’s on me. By contrast, Amazon sells its Cube with an explicit assurance that it is compatible with, and therefore cable of controlling, Rogers Ignite equipment. If I purchase its device and cannot use it as advertised, that’s on them.  As such, our kind moderator isn’t quite correct when she says the Cube isn’t supported “from a technical standpoint.” With respect, it’s not a technical standpoint that matters. The only relevant standpoint is legal. My contract with Rogers doesn’t contemplate my using third party equipment in substitution for Rogers equipment. As such, I never expected Rogers to solve the problem for me. I posted this message in the hopes that other community members (present and future) might be experiencing similar problems. If detailing my experience can help others, that’s a win. If another community member provides me with a solution, that’s a win-win.]

Okay, now back to our story… 

Neither the entry for Rogers in the Amazon Cube’s service provider database nor the Rogers entry in its manufacturer database worked. The Amazon tech and I were able to recreate my early experimentation with the Cube’s manufacturer code database, however, in which I discovered that the 15th of the many codes available for the Arris entry in that database did permit basic channel control over the Xi6-T by the Cube and/or it’s remote.

We know that the Rogers entry in the Cube’s manufacturer database only has one code associated with it because the Cube set up routine kicks out a “sorry, not compatible” message after a single try. If one chooses the Arris entry instead, the set up routine keeps attempting to obtain control over the Xi6-T until it succeeds (partially) around the 15th attempt. I tried the Arris entry because I knew it was the ultimate manufacture of the Xi6-T. I (and, later, we) also tried the Xfinity entry but an immediate comms error prevented me/us from even testing codes associated with it.

The Arris code permits audio control over channels but that’s it. No physical (i.e. button-based) control using the remote and no advanced audio features (e.g. “Alexa, tune to CTV Kitchener”). The Cube still indicates that it’s using the Rogers channel lineup, but either the Arris code won’t facilitate such commands or the lineup info is wrong.

Seems to me the simplest explanation for my problem is that Amazon hasn’t programmed the correct control codes for the Cube. Thanks to my experiment with the Arris codes, we know that the Xi6-T’s IR sensor works, but if the code’s incorrect. I guess we’ll see.

One thing that puzzles me, however, is why IR control was even necessary? The reviews for this 3rd gen Cube indicate that its big new feature is HDMI-CEC (having added a second HDMI port for inputs). I’m thinking there’s a second problem with the Cube here, as it only allows one to attempt to control a cable box connected directly to the Cube via its HDMI input port on its very first setup. You can’t access it again through its preferences/utilities software because it only offers ports on the TV for the addition of a satellite or cable box and there’s no option for modifying a cable or satellite box added during the original setup process. The only way to do that is to factory-reset the Cube. Not sure if that’s a hardware or software problem, but it seems to prevent control of the Xi6-T via HDMI-CEC.

[-G-]

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@griwei wrote:

We know that the Rogers entry in the Cube’s manufacturer database only has one code associated with it because the Cube set up routine kicks out a “sorry, not compatible” message after a single try. If one chooses the Arris entry instead, the set up routine keeps attempting to obtain control over the Xi6-T until it succeeds (partially) around the 15th attempt. I tried the Arris entry because I knew it was the ultimate manufacture of the Xi6-T. I (and, later, we) also tried the Xfinity entry but an immediate comms error prevented me/us from even testing codes associated with it.

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I don't mean to be nit-picky but the Xi6-T is actually manufactured by Technicolor (and Technicolor Connected Home has now changed its name to Vantiva); the Xi6-A is manufactured by Arris.  Both models are functionally equivalent, and the "original" manufacturer of the Xi6 is usually considered to be (Comcast) Xfinity.  The same control codes should also work for the new XiOne set-top box.

The Arris code permits audio control over channels but that’s it. No physical (i.e. button-based) control using the remote and no advanced audio features (e.g. “Alexa, tune to CTV Kitchener”). The Cube still indicates that it’s using the Rogers channel lineup, but either the Arris code won’t facilitate such commands or the lineup info is wrong.

Seems to me the simplest explanation for my problem is that Amazon hasn’t programmed the correct control codes for the Cube. Thanks to my experiment with the Arris codes, we know that the Xi6-T’s IR sensor works, but if the code’s incorrect. I guess we’ll see.

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This is going to be a fun thing for Amazon to support because the availability of channels vary by location, as do their channel numbers.  Even something like "The Weather Network" may be channel 22 in some areas and channel 23 in others.  The Rogers channel numbers are also different depending on which service you subscribe to, and I don't think that Rogers publishes their channel maps by region publicly.

One thing that puzzles me, however, is why IR control was even necessary? The reviews for this 3rd gen Cube indicate that its big new feature is HDMI-CEC (having added a second HDMI port for inputs). I’m thinking there’s a second problem with the Cube here, as it only allows one to attempt to control a cable box connected directly to the Cube via its HDMI input port on its very first setup. You can’t access it again through its preferences/utilities software because it only offers ports on the TV for the addition of a satellite or cable box and there’s no option for modifying a cable or satellite box added during the original setup process. The only way to do that is to factory-reset the Cube. Not sure if that’s a hardware or software problem, but it seems to prevent control of the Xi6-T via HDMI-CEC.

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HDMI-CEC only works for devices that are directly-connected to one another over an HDMI link, so whether or not this works depends on how devices are interconnected.  Also, device manufacturers also often only implement a small subset of those commands.  As for RF control, the Ignite Voice Remotes communicate with the set-top box using a protocol called RF4CE, and the controller using that protocol first needs to be paired to the set-top box.  I believe that the Comcast X1 set-top boxes can also be controlled over the network, but I have not tested this myself with the Ignite STBs.

[griwei]

Please do be nitpicky!  For what it’s worth, I tried the technicolor codes too, but none worked at all. Hence, I assumed Arris. I know that the modem is Technicolor, so not a surprise that the set top box would be too.

No sure why no Technicolor codes in the Cube’s manufacturer database worked though.

I had read that the Rogers remotes controlled the Xi6-T using RF, which is likely why I’ve seen some forum discussions in which the question was asked whether the IR feature was turned off in the Xi6-T? I saw no way (at least from the consumer side) to turn on or off RF, IR, or HDMI-CEC features. As noted above, I also surmise from the one Arris code success that the Xi6-T did, indeed, have its IR receiver working. I should also add that when the IR blaster wasn’t used, the code didn’t work, even with the Cube in direct and close proximity to it.

I should also mention that I was able to select the Arris code successfully regardless of whether the Xi6-T was connected via HDMI cable to either an input port on the TV or the input port on the Cube. That suggests the Cube’s manufacturer database is actually just for IR codes. And that suggests that the Cube just cannot control (or is somehow being impeded from controlling) the Xi6-T via HDMI-CEC.

By the way, the LG TV involved here actually permits one to turn off or on its HDMI-CEC capabilities. I had turned off that feature on the TV when I noticed the LG remote’s up/down/right/left buttons were capable of usurping the Amazon remote in navigating Cube preference/utility/setup features. I also noted how, with the TV’s HDMI-CEC function turned on, the TV’s inputs menu included a supplemental icon beside the HDMI1 icon, indicating that the Xi6T was connected through that part (albeit indirectly through the Cube, whose input port was occupied by the Xi6-T. Remove the cable and plug it into the TV’s HDMI2 or HDMI3 ports and that supplemental icon (obviously) disappears. It also disappears (again, obviously) when the TV’s HDMI-CEC feature is disengaged.

That recalls the Cube’s second apparent problem. When the Xi6-T is connected directly to the Cube’s HDMI in-port, one can only add the Xi6-T as a connected cable service immediately after executing a hard reset of the Cube. Trying to add it later - again, when the Xi6-T is connected directly to the Cube via its HDMI in-port - won’t work because the menu only contemplates addition via a direct connection to one of the TV’s ports, not its own HDMI in port.

all of which is to say that I was already rudimentarily aware of how HDMI-CEC is supposed to work. It just doesn’t appear to have been properly implemented for the 3rd gen Fire Cube (yet).

[57]

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@griwei wrote:

....Xi6-T? I saw no way (at least from the consumer side) to turn on or off RF, IR, or HDMI-CEC features.

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I have never known any devices that have HDMI-CEC not to have an on/off option.  In the case of the IgniteTV boxes that's under: Rogers - Settings - Device Settings - Power Preferences - HDMI Device Control.  In order for HDMI-CEC to function, it needs to be turned on in both devices and sometimes the appropriate port needs to be utilized on say the TV.  This may be the port labelled HDMI-ARC, or it may be available on all ports...

Also, just because one device or remote can control another device, it doesn't mean it has full functionality. For example, the Rogers Ignite Remotes can only turn TVs on/off, volume/mute, and most times the input.  Similarly for AVRs it turns them on/off, mute and volume.  The "cube" may have similar lack of full functionality.

The only remote I know that does have close to full functionality is the Harmony, but it doesn't handle voice control, although some people apparently had some success with the Harmony Hub and Alexa or similar..

[griwei]

Just to be clear, I didn’t purchase the 3rd gen Fire Cube on a whim. Amazon expressly promised compatibility with Rogers Ignite set-top boxes, for which it described the ability to use voice commands to change channels by name (e.g. CNN, CTV, Sportsnet… not just the corresponding channel numbers) as well as control the set-top box’s Guide features. The fact that Amazon apparently made this commitment without ensuring its implementation is frankly perplexing.  This certainly isn’t a case of a consumer seeking to do something with a product that was not expressly intended by its provider.

[57]

I understand.  Sometimes corporations exaggerate the capabilities of what they sell.  I'm not sure if that's the case here or not as I'm totally unfamiliar with the Cube.   For example, a company may say that their remotes can control TVs and AVRs, yet the functionality may be limited (or not). 

As mentioned by @-G- people have had issues with IR remotes like the Harmony Hub controlling the IgniteTV box. Placement of the IR device so that it sends the signal properly to the IgniteTV box is extremely finicky and important.  (For example, search for "Harmony Ignite" or similar terms in this forum for previous threads).  Based on your comments, the Cube works for some things which is a bit strange, but again, this is something you need to take up with Amazon.

Did you get anywhere with HDMI-CEC turned on in both devices?  I see the following from the Amazon website:

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Cable and Satellite Box Compatibility

Connect a compatible cable or satellite box to the HDMI input on Fire TV Cube to control live TV with Alexa or the included Fire TV Alexa Voice Remote. Select cable/satellite boxes support this functionality, which includes:

• Bell Fibe TV/Satellite
• Shaw Total TV/Direct
• Rogers Ignite
• Videotron
• Telus Optik TV

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To me that says you need to use HDMI-CEC for Rogers.

[-G-]

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@57 wrote:

Did you get anywhere with HDMI-CEC turned on in both devices?  I see the following from the Amazon website:

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Cable and Satellite Box Compatibility

Connect a compatible cable or satellite box to the HDMI input on Fire TV Cube to control live TV with Alexa or the included Fire TV Alexa Voice Remote. Select cable/satellite boxes support this functionality, which includes:

• Bell Fibe TV/Satellite
• Shaw Total TV/Direct
• Rogers Ignite
• Videotron
• Telus Optik TV

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To me that says you need to use HDMI-CEC for Rogers.

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As far as I know, the Ignite STB's HDMI-CEC support is very, VERY basic.  The option is enabled/disabled in Power Preferences, which is telling.  The feature was added to allow an Ignite STB to be put into standby mode when the TV gets turned off.  The Ignite STB can't even change the TV's input setting.

I tested this last night.  I turned my Apple TV on, and using HDMI-CEC, that box was able to turn the TV on and select its HDMI input, HDMI4.  I turned everything off, then turned on Ignite TV.  The Ignite STB turned the TV on but the input was still left on HDMI4.

I would only count on being able to use HDMI-CEC to turn the Ignite STB on and off; that's it.  For anything else, you would need to control it with IR or RF, or, if you can get it working and all devices involved support it, IP Control.

[57]

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@-G- wrote: I would only count on being able to use HDMI-CEC to turn the Ignite STB on and off; that's it.  

Here's the link to the Amazon Fire Cube.  Seems to intimate that it'll work, even do voice commands, but as you say (and as I've said) that doesn't mean you'll get all the functionality of the Rogers remotes

https://www.amazon.ca/All-new-fire-tv-cube-4k-streaming-device/dp/B09BZVX3J7/ref=asc_df_B09BZVX3J7?t...

I thought that some people with Samsung TVs had it working, but when I found the threads it was via RF, not HDMI-CEC.

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Ignite-TV/Samsung-one-remote-and-Arris-xi6-T/m-p/453262/highli...

[-G-]

@57 You were probably thinking of this thread, where some people were trying to get the latest-generation of Samsung Smart TVs and the One Remote  to control a Rogers Ignite STB.

I'm pretty sure that Samsung's integration is limited to RF control and/or IP control.  (See this blog post for more info.). I would really surprised if HDMI-CEC was used for anything other controlling power on the STB or polling basic device status info.

[57]

Yep, I modified my previous post while you were typing.