Time For Takeoff

[AccordXTC]

Hello

Anyone getting a notice on there door about Rogers being committed to connecting Canadians with the latest technology? Our service has been down since early this morning and still down. I wasn't aware of anything new coming out besides Ignite TV and don't have nor want the service. 

What's this all about? 

***Added Labels***

[toolcubed]

@Datalink,

I’m using an Antronix splitter supplied by Rogers. It’s not moca certified. I’ll ask the tech next time he’s around here.

On another note, assuming the signal levels remain high, how would I get them down without pushing the upstream levels even higher? Adding another splitter or even an attenuator to my setup would bring levels down a bit more but then my upstream levels might be too high. Do you know how Rogers generally deals with homes that are located really close to a node with a short amount of coax?

[RyzenFX]

@toolcubed

Generally, node segmentation causes signal levels to rise. I'm sure that over the course of the next few days,  Rogers will adjust the signal strength for everyone in your neighborhood accordingly. 

For reference, my neighborhood was splitted at the headend last year, and I noticed signal levels increased to around the 5-7dBmV range. Over the course of a few days, I noticed that they lowered the signal strength accordingly. 

[toolcubed]

Thanks. I’ll keep an eye on this over the next week. Maybe when they “cutover” next Tues, things will settle back down a bit.

[Datalink]

@toolcubed as @RyzenFX indicates, keep an eye on the signal levels over the next couple of weeks as the techs adjust them.  That might change the requirement from a splitter back to an amplifier.  Ideally the splitter would suffice.  

As for MoCA splitters, it looks like Antronix has finally decided to manufacture MoCA 2 splitters:

https://www.antronix.com/products/drop-passives/splitters.aspx

It looks like there are a couple of frequency ranges, 5 to 1.218 GHz for the CMC400X series and the 5 Mhz to 1.675 Ghz for the MMC 100XH/A and 200XH/A MoCA 2 qualified splitters.  They can be seen on this page:

https://www.antronix.com/products/results.aspx?filter=splitters

Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the MoCA 2 splitters.  That is what you're after.  Question is, does Rogers actually have those in stock? 

Depending on where the final signal levels are, if you decide to stick with a splitter, and Rogers doesn't have any MoCA 2 qualified splitters, then I'd say you should buy your own.  If you're looking to obtain the highest performance level out of your MoCA 2 network, then you need access to the upper frequency range, up to 1.675 Ghz so that you can use the D-High band in its entirety. 

As for the signal levels overall, for now, keep an eye on them to see where they go.  In terms of dropping them any further with a signal attenuator, you will end up pushing up the outbound upstream signal levels.  

For now, my greater concern a MoCA network in operation without a MoCA Point of Entry filter attached.  Hopefully your MoCA network is encrypted.  If you can't get a tech to drop one off, there's always amazon, if necessary:

https://www.amazon.ca/Filter-MoCA-Cable-Coaxial-Networking/dp/B00DC8IEE6

For more info, have a look at the following post and the posts after that:

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Wifi-extender-for-hitron-coda-4582/m-p/425323#M53161

[toolcubed]

Thanks Datalink. As usual, very helpful and very informative 🙂

[toolcubed]

@Datalink, @RyzenFX

Would a return path attenuator bring the upstream levels down?

[toolcubed]

One more question in addition to the question above about return path attenuators...

I’m rethinking the need for a PoE filter. The only MOCA setup I have is whole home PVR for my 2 NB3 boxes. We have never used the feature and never will. If I were to ask Rogers to remove that feature from my account, would that negate the need for a PoE filter? Are there any other reasons for needing a PoE filter if I’m not using a MOCA network?

[gp-se]

---

@toolcubed wrote:
One more question in addition to the question above about return path attenuators...

I’m rethinking the need for a PoE filter. The only MOCA setup I have is whole home PVR for my 2 NB3 boxes. We have never used the feature and never will. If I were to ask Rogers to remove that feature from my account, would that negate the need for a PoE filter? Are there any other reasons for needing a PoE filter if I’m not using a MOCA network?

---

If you have Whole Home PVR then you need the POE filter, it doesn't matter if you use whole home pvr or not, the POE filter needs to be installed. The reason is you will broadcast MOCA signals from your house onto everyone else on your Tap/Node. 

There is no downside to having the POE filter installed, so I would leave it installed. Coax has a big problem with noise, and the POE filter helps combat some of that issue.

I have a "complex" coax setup in my house where my two whole home pvr's have a POE filter and dedicated line that isolates them from my home phone and cable modem. Then I also have another POE filter that blocks any leakage from the TAP coming into my demarc. When I was wiring it all together my wife told me to get a job at Rogers as an installer... lol

[gp-se]

---

@toolcubed wrote:
@Datalink, @RyzenFX

Would a return path attenuator bring the upstream levels down?

---

It would have the opposite effect, your return signals would actually increase because the modem has to "talk louder" to the head end.

[Datalink]

@toolcubed, if you called tech support to disable the Whole Home PVR function, that should get rid of any requirement for a MoCA POE filter.  The MoCA transmitter / receiver on the pvr should be disabled at that point.  I'd call tech support just to confirm that.  Fwiw, we've never had a MoCA POE filter installed, which makes some sense as we don't use any MoCA functions in the modem or set top box. 

As for the Return Path Attenuator, the problem here is the splitter, which drops the forward path by 7 db and adds a potential 7db gain to the output of the modem.  Ideally one would have a splitter that drops only the forward path and leaves the return path untouched.  I don't believe that such a splitter exists, so, it is what it is.  From what I remember, you're signal levels are ok with the splitter installed, and it's probable that the techs aren't finished adjusting the output levels of the node, so it might be too early to come to any conclusions on what needs to be done.  I'd wait until the dust settles and then see where the final signal levels are. 

[toolcubed]

Cool. Thanks. I’ll get tech support to disable whole home PVR, and I’ll wait until next Wed to see signal levels, which is when the Rogers crew said everything will be cutover and done. I’ve got my arsenal of splitters ready to go...and the amp too of I still need it (hopefully I don’t because I’d really like to keep it out of my configuration:))

[toolcubed]

@gp-se

I don’t have a PoE filter, which is why I was asking. I don’t want to pay for one and I don’t want to have a tech come out to install one because I’ve had nothing but bad luck with first level (non-senior) techs. So I’ll just have Rogers remove the whole home PVR feature from my account. Have never used whole home and never will.

Thanks for the info though. By the way, I too really enjoy playing with cabling and wiring up networks. Fun stuff 🙂

[toolcubed]

Everything appears to be all done. Signal levels have stabilized. Decided to revert back to my previous setup...cable coming into the house connected to a 2-way splitter - one port feeding the CODA, the other port feeding the unity gain amp. Home phone line connected to VoIP port on amp, and TV lines connected to regular amp ports. TV boxes are around 0db with SNR at around 40. CODA levels are a bit more sporadic than they were before but SNR is much better now at between 39 and 40 for all channels...signal ranges from -1.5 to +5 across all channels. OFDM channel is sitting at -0.7db. Signal levels on the 3 upstream channels have also come down quite a bit...they’re sitting at 31.7, 31.7, and 34.5 respectively. Everything is working well. Speed tests are consistently 550/21 over wifi and 600/22 over ethernet.

On another note, construction is now taking place at the other end of the neighbourhood. Also, there are now at least another 3 nodes (the large “vault” boxes) at the other end of the neighbourhood...possibly 4. So the neighbourhood now has 7-8 nodes. Crazy!

[toolcubed]

So today, every single speed test topped out at 325Mbps. No more and no less. It was almost as if Rogers changed my profile to 325 (which I know doesn’t exist)...I just mean that’s what it feels like. Upload speed has not been affected (consistently 20-22). Signal levels have not changed either. I happened to drive by the original neighbourhood node (i.e. the very first one) today and noticed a big thick cable coming out of it, strung externally across lamp posts and going into a smaller green box down one of the streets. Could be fibre or could be the coax trunk cable, but whatever it is, it’s temporary for some reason. It was not there yesterday. Not saying it’s the cause for my lower download speed today but it can’t be just coincidence. Anyway, hope they get this resolved soon. Also, I noticed that they did NOT bring in NEW fibre from the street into any of the new nodes they installed here in the last month. Could they be splitting the fibre from the original node 7-8 ways for the other nodes??? If so, that wouldn’t make much sense to me.

[RyzenFX]

@toolcubed I'm assuming your speeds has returned to normal? How's the construction going on the other side of your neighborhood?

[toolcubed]

Yep. All back to normal. Not sure about construction at the other end of the neighbourhood. Haven’t been out that way since before the holidays. I’d imagine they’re done by now.

[toolcubed]

Any idea why my signal levels fluctuate so much across all channels? Everything has been working perfectly fine, so no observable issue with the fluctuation. Just curious.

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 663000000 256QAM 2.900 18 38.983
2 849000000 256QAM 6.000 2 40.366
3 855000000 256QAM 5.500 3 40.366
4 861000000 256QAM 5.300 4 40.946
5 579000000 256QAM 1.800 5 38.605
6 585000000 256QAM 2.200 6 38.605
7 591000000 256QAM 1.800 7 38.983
8 597000000 256QAM 1.800 8 38.983
9 603000000 256QAM 2.200 9 38.983
10 609000000 256QAM 2.200 10 38.983
11 615000000 256QAM 2.000 11 38.983
12 621000000 256QAM 2.100 12 38.983
13 633000000 256QAM 3.100 13 38.983
14 639000000 256QAM 2.800 14 38.983
15 645000000 256QAM 3.100 15 38.983
16 651000000 256QAM 3.600 16 40.366
17 657000000 256QAM 3.500 17 40.366
18 303000000 256QAM -1.500 1 38.983
19 669000000 256QAM 3.200 19 38.983
20 675000000 256QAM 3.400 20 40.946
21 681000000 256QAM 3.300 21 40.946
22 687000000 256QAM 3.300 22 40.366
23 693000000 256QAM 3.800 23 40.366
24 699000000 256QAM 3.700 24 40.366
25 705000000 256QAM 3.000 25 40.366
26 711000000 256QAM 3.300 26 40.366
27 717000000 256QAM 3.600 27 40.366
28 723000000 256QAM 3.300 28 38.983
29 825000000 256QAM 5.800 29 40.366
30 831000000 256QAM 5.600 30 40.366
31 837000000 256QAM 5.300 31 40.946
32 843000000 256QAM 5.600 32 40.946
OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 NA NA NO NO NO NA
1 4K 275600000 YES YES YES -0.799999
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.750 7 6400000
2 36996000 ATDMA - 64QAM 31.750 8 6400000
3 22100000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.750 5 3200000
4 25300000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.750 6 3200000

[fspilot]

The dust has settled and the upgrades have been done here in my part of Scarborough. They laid new trunk cable and installed new taps. We were also segmented to a new node at the end of our street.

Here’s the kicker. The new trunk line, the thicker 750 cable was laid all down our street. Unfortunately our upper part of the street is still being kept on the old 412 trunk cable, even though there is the newer trunk cable here. The lower part of this street is using the new trunk. The tap feeding our house was changed though.

Overall signal levels have gone down by an average of 7dBmv across the spectrum. I do notice some issues using voice chat software but it’s intermittent. The technician I spoke with told me that the high frequencies are very low and this part of our street was put on the “deficiencies” list.

Here’s the upgraded signal levels.

Port ID	Frequency (MHz)	Modulation	Signal strength (dBmV)	Channel ID	Signal noise ratio (dB)
1	609000000	256QAM	-1.100	10	34.926
2	579000000	256QAM	-0.800	5	34.926
3	585000000	256QAM	-1.100	6	34.346
4	591000000	256QAM	-1.100	7	34.484
5	597000000	256QAM	-1.600	8	34.346
6	603000000	256QAM	-1.300	9	34.484
7	303000000	256QAM	1.700	1	36.387
8	615000000	256QAM	-1.100	11	34.926
9	621000000	256QAM	-1.200	12	35.084
10	633000000	256QAM	-1.100	13	33.834
11	639000000	256QAM	-1.600	14	33.715
12	645000000	256QAM	-1.800	15	33.487
13	651000000	256QAM	-1.700	16	33.487
14	657000000	256QAM	-1.800	17	33.487
15	663000000	256QAM	-1.800	18	33.377
16	669000000	256QAM	-2.000	19	32.963
17	675000000	256QAM	-1.900	20	33.377
18	681000000	256QAM	-2.000	21	33.377
19	687000000	256QAM	-2.000	22	33.377
20	693000000	256QAM	-2.300	23	33.063
21	699000000	256QAM	-2.500	24	33.063
22	705000000	256QAM	-2.500	25	32.963
23	711000000	256QAM	-2.900	26	32.963
24	717000000	256QAM	-2.700	27	33.063

Upstream Overview
Port ID	Frequency (MHz)	Modulation	Signal strength (dBmV)	Channel ID	Bandwidth
1	30596000	ATDMA - 64QAM	37.000	1	6400000
2	38596000	ATDMA - 64QAM	38.250	3	3200000
3	23700000	ATDMA - 64QAM	36.000	2	6400000