New Pay As You Go Maximum Balance

[lmcjipo]

Had my prepaid phone off during the holidays and just turned it on today to receive the following text from Rogers:

Rogers service msg: Starting at the end of 2018, our prepaid services will have a maximum allowed balance of $150. Any balance above $150 will no longer be available as of end of 2018. We will be in touch with more information on how you can use your balance soon, but in the meantime you can continue to use your balance as normal. Questions? http://rogers.com/contactus

What are the options? The option that I think that they will do is to force those high balance users to go to postpaid. Unless they give me the option to get a new phone, there is no way that I would be able to use my balance or reduce it to under $150 before the end of 2018. The only other thing which would reduce my balance is for me to take options/services that I don't need (like data/SMS/addon services) that I don't need for the sake of just reducing my balance.

This seems ridiculous.

***EDITED LABELS***

[Sarcee]

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@barndoor wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

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@barndoor wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

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Nope. When I joined Rogers, I simply paid for a voucher. I spent the entire value of that voucher only on air time.

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Could you use that airtime on Bell or Telus  ?   Then I would suggest there was an aspect of that  voucher that entitled you to access  the Rogers system .  

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  No access fee.

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If their is no access fee included in the price per minute or text that you use .... there should be no time limit on their use  ...so  don't add any money to your account until you have used up those airtime minutes and see what happens .. I bet when your system access   expires  your  airtime minutes won't be worth much . They  go hand in hand . 

 I agree ...that it is complicated .... I expect that  is why they are doing away with this type of plan and going to a flat rate monthly .... where the fee is basically system access for a given number of minutes or texts and you pay airtime for anything over and above that amount .

Anyway the terminology really doesn't change anything  as far as the math of which renewal strategy gets you the best bang for your buck .... if you don't see how using $100 of the balance  does that for you  ....good luck with whatever  you decide to do . 

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Giving Rogers $100.00 for nothing (except calendar time) is not the best bang for my buck. It's throwing away money.  The classic sunk cost fallacy, throwing good money after bad.

[57]

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@Sarcee wrote:

1. It doesn't cost Rogers $100.00 for me to access their network.

2. The network only costs Rogers money to operate, not to access. There is no need to charge an access fee in the first place. It's a bogus charge. It's all operational costs.

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1. We never said that it did.

2. You're probably right. The billions that Rogers spent to create the cellphone network and internet connections for billing, and CSR offices, and maintenance infrastructure is pretty small.  The billions they spend to maintain/service it every year is also pretty small.  😉

The people we can thank for our $100 per year or so pre-paid plans are probably the people who spend hundred(s) of $ per month for post-paid subsidizing the overall cost.

[Sarcee]

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@57 wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

Nope. When I joined Rogers, I simply paid for a voucher. I spent the entire value of that voucher only on air time.

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Good for you.  You are indeed a remarkable individual to exactly balance your output with your input for years on end. If only everyone could exactly predict their usage each and every day/month/year.  You must do very well on the stock market. Others are not quite as remarkable and are left using a bit less airtime, or paying for a bit more airtime as required.   I guess you didn't have an emergency near the end of the year otherwise you may have had to pay a penny or two more.  😉

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Buddy, all I'm saying is I remember the first voucher I got when I first signed up. I used it all up in air time. My point was there was no access fee, despite your insistence that there was somehow an access fee portion un-itemized lurking within the value of the voucher itself, without a shred of evidence.  Why do you assume that? And how do you know? You are simply trying to rationalize my thinking of $100.00 renewal fee as an "access fee".

[BS]

I just thought I would interject and comment.

I had backed away from commenting much on this topic for the following reason - I think that there are many people impacted by this change over, and the permutations of how these plans are applying to each person and the varying level of communication that people have received over the years has created a wide range of people with perceptions based upon their individual experiences on how their plan operates and the commitment to you from Rogers.

This means that when attempting to have a discussion on this topic, I see that there are a large range of opinions of what should or should not have happened, what people knew and what people didn't know, and that ultimately, it is only each customer who knows what their situation is and with ideas that come from this forum thread, you can ultimately go to Rogers directly and do as was recommended in the beginning.

I don't recall the exact wording, but there was a notice of change, which some received and others did not, and people were asked to contact pay as you go to discuss options to deal with any remaining balances, how they could be consumed by the end of the year, and what kinds of plans you wish to go forward with.

So, my only advise or comment to give is that each person impacted by this change needs to consider the options of first, what do you want a phone for, how much balance do you need, carry over options, and what you use your balance for.

This thread has provided lots of discussion and some people have posted their experience with offers that they came away very satisfied with, so with this information, and knowledge of the offers currently in the market (all providers included), you can contact and see what options you have.  Always remember that if not satisfied with what you here, it is not a situation of you have to take it or leave it.  You have the option of escalating to a supervisor, going to report a concern on the myRogers page under contact us, discussion with a manager through that route, discussion with Office of President, or finally, you can choose the Office of the Ombudsman (or just for fun, I will say ombudsperson), or CCTC.

I wish each of you luck in finding the solution that is best for each of you, but that decision ultimately is yours and only yours.

I will conclude with a comment to an earlier question - as a senior advisor, I really don't know how I got to that level, other than I spend a lot of time here, and have asked my own questions, have provided solutions that were declared solutions, responded to others, and been liked.  I will just say a provide advise (my two cents), and I am senior in age and wisdom, I hope anyway.

And my last statement, is that this is probably one of the most poorly thought out implementation of a change I have ever experienced or seen, and that what probably appeared like a straight forward change with considerable lead time, did not take into consideration just how many variations over 20 years or so that these plans have been around, some grandfathered, some changed, which would ultimately lead to frustration and feelings of being cheated on what a customer may feel is owed to them (right or wrong - it is their opinions), and ultimately, the final solution is to contact Rogers and see what you can get.

Best of luck everyone on figuring out how to move forward.  The decision by Rogers, which made sense, to reduce the number and complexity of plan options across the board is fraught with the reality that there are so many variations and grandfathering of every type of service out there, that ultimately, many people may get upset and wish to vent, but ultimately, Rogers has to try to do their best for each person, and it appears that from the offers that people have presented, that at varying levels of frustration and time in the calls, most have come away satisfied, and it would appear that some have chosen to move on.

Good luck with your efforts to move forward - do let eveyone know how it went, it provides a general framework for others.

Bruce

[57]

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@Sarcee wrote:

My point was there was no access fee, despite your insistence that there was somehow an access fee portion un-itemized lurking within the value of the voucher itself, without a shred of evidence.  Why do you assume that? And how do you know? 

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In post 191 I explained why there is a portion of the $100 you pay that doesn't go towards airtime.  A portion goes towards infrastructure, CSRs, billing (online or via phone), maintenance, debt payments, etc - all the things that make a corporation work.  If you believe that all of your $100 goes strictly towards airtime, that's fine with me and the other people on this forum who know otherwise.

[Sarcee]

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@57 wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

My point was there was no access fee, despite your insistence that there was somehow an access fee portion un-itemized lurking within the value of the voucher itself, without a shred of evidence.  Why do you assume that? And how do you know? 

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In post 191 I explained why there is a portion of the $100 you pay that doesn't go towards airtime.  A portion goes towards infrastructure, CSRs, billing (online or via phone), maintenance, debt payments, etc - all the things that make a corporation work.  If you believe that all of your $100 goes strictly towards airtime, that's fine with me and the other people on this forum who know otherwise.

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Except there's no difference between air time costs and infrastructure, CSRs, billing, maintenance, etc. Those are all the things the cost of air time (and phone sales) already pays for. All customer payments and purchases go into the same revenue stream. That's why 'access fees' are a made up bogus extra cost, like when airlines make up charges for baggage fees, window seats, food, etc. It doesn't cost Rogers anything to 'access' their system, since the only way to access it is through air time anyway. Besides, when you buy a sim card, you're already paying for access to the system that way.

Sorry, there's just no way any part of the air time fee is going towards paying for any kind of mythical 'access' cost.

[barndoor]

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@Sarcee wrote:

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Sorry, there's just no way any part of the air time fee is going towards paying for any kind of mythical 'access' cost.

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If there is no "access" aspect then  you should be able to  take your " airtime "   anywhere .   If you buy a pair of pants   at Walmart  can you wear them in any store or only Walmart  ? 

Isn't this "access" discussion pretty well moot anyway ... since as of late you seem to be  spending over$100 a year on airtime  isn't the flat rate $10/month plan the cheapest option  you have?   With it, you are going to have to use up more "airtime " or else when the access period runs out  you will have wasted all that "airtime"  ...because  if you don't use it you loose it .  You'll need to carry a balance anyway with that plan  so you can "access" any long distance calls using extra "airtime" . 

[57]

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@Sarcee wrote:

1. That's why 'access fees' are a made up bogus extra cost, like when airlines make up charges for baggage fees, window seats, food, etc. It doesn't cost Rogers anything to 'access' their system, since

2. the only way to access it is through air time anyway.

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1. Airlines are an interesting analogy.  It does actually cost airlines more for each extra pound on the plane. Charging for baggage gets passengers thinking about that.

Window seats don't cost extra, but some seats that utilize extra space (and therefore allow for fewer paying passengers on a plane) do cost more.

Food does cost the airline in terms of cost for the food and in terms of extra weight, that may not be well-utilized when people don't eat it or it gets wasted.

While it is true that airfares used to include all that, people seem to want lower costs for flying, even when it means some of the drop in price is recouped through charges for baggage, extra legroom, food, etc.  

2. That's not true. You can access Rogers by calling a CSR and in some rare instances, Rogers now charges for that call.  You can also access Rogers to look at your billing, either via MyRogers or via your phone.  If Rogers wanted to, they could charge say $40 for System Access, $50 for a certain number of airtime minutes, $1.50 for a CSR call, a 9-1-1 fee, etc instead of say the flat $100.  Some people might even prefer that.  Just because you purchase a voucher for $100 doesn't mean that this reflects only airtime charges.  In actual fact, the cost to Rogers for "Airtime" (a call you make on your phone) is quite a minor cost when compared to all the other items I mentioned previously.    You might think you're paying for "airtime" and it may even be advertized that way, but much of your $100 is being "spent" in many other ways.

[Sarcee]

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@57 wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

1. That's why 'access fees' are a made up bogus extra cost, like when airlines make up charges for baggage fees, window seats, food, etc. It doesn't cost Rogers anything to 'access' their system, since

2. the only way to access it is through air time anyway.

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1. Airlines are an interesting analogy.  It does actually cost airlines more for each extra pound on the plane. Charging for baggage gets passengers thinking about that.

Window seats don't cost extra, but some seats that utilize extra space (and therefore allow for fewer paying passengers on a plane) do cost more.

Food does cost the airline in terms of cost for the food and in terms of extra weight, that may not be well-utilized when people don't eat it or it gets wasted.

While it is true that airfares used to include all that, people seem to want lower costs for flying, even when it means some of the drop in price is recouped through charges for baggage, extra legroom, food, etc.  

2. That's not true. You can access Rogers by calling a CSR and in some rare instances, Rogers now charges for that call.  You can also access Rogers to look at your billing, either via MyRogers or via your phone.  If Rogers wanted to, they could charge say $40 for System Access, $50 for a certain number of airtime minutes, $1.50 for a CSR call, a 9-1-1 fee, etc instead of say the flat $100.  Some people might even prefer that.  Just because you purchase a voucher for $100 doesn't mean that this reflects only airtime charges.  In actual fact, the cost to Rogers for "Airtime" (a call you make on your phone) is quite a minor cost when compared to all the other items I mentioned previously.    You might think you're paying for "airtime" and it may even be advertized that way, but much of your $100 is being "spent" in many other ways.

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1. Yes, airlines are a very appropriate analogy. The airlines already know how much cost to allow for luggage weight. The cost of it is already built into the airline ticket. If luggage is underweight on a given flight, that's more profit for them.

That's right, window seats don't cost the airline more, but some airlines are charging more for them. And in the last 40 years or so, airline seats have become closer together, and in some cases smaller. More passengers, more profit. Then they can charge more for roomier seats.

The average airline ticket price has gone down since 1980. But since 2010 they've started to climb back up again. But the average overall cost of airline tickets isn't germaine to my point about extra bogus fees, since when it comes to telco's, Canada has one of the highest prices in the world.

2.  Yes, that's what I said. The fee people pay for air time goes into covering operating costs. It's true Rogers doesn't charge you extra for accessing your account info, (neither do banks) but they do charge for accessing voicemail. There is no extra cost for 'access', since 'access' is simply part of the overall operating cost. 'Access' is just a bogus magic word used to make you believe there is something extra or special about it. Do you really believe Rogers doesn't already account for things like talking to CSR's? Did they think, "Oops, we forgot about accessing the system, we'll have to tuck that cost separately into the air time rate". Not a chance. Besides, like I said, any extra 'system access' cost (if it exists) wouldn't be built into the air time rates, it would be part of the sim card price, since the sim card is the main way most people access the system.

Regardless of how you figure 'system access' is somehow an extra cost different from operating costs, there is no way anyone in their right mind should consider $100.00 per year a 'system access fee'. That's ridiculous. Now, if you've got that kind of money to throw away, how about sending some my way?

[Sarcee]

I talked to another CSR today. Still no luck getting them to cancel the expiry date if I transfer my balance to a new plan. However, they did extend my current expiry date for another month. So I'm not under pressure to decide right away, I've got some more time to think about what I want to do.

[57]

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@Sarcee wrote:

1. Regardless of how you figure 'system access' is somehow an extra cost different from operating costs, there is no way anyone in their right mind should consider $100.00 per year a 'system access fee'. That's ridiculous.

2. Now, if you've got that kind of money to throw away, how about sending some my way?

1. The reason we mentioned an access fee earlier in this thread, was that people like me, as well as many others, justify spending $100 to have an emergency phone for a year, even when we didn't use it much.  You obviously disagree with this concept and that's fine with us.

2. I don't consider the money "thrown away", especially when that money comes from a pool that I've already paid (like insurance).   In my case, by drawing from that pool, I've averaged about $75/year over 10 years, which I consider pretty frugal, so you won't be seeing any of that money.

Edit: If you're wondering how I got down to $75/year, here's a rough table of my cellphone usage  I'm on Auto-Top-Up at $10/month, but suspend the top ups for a year whenever my balance is high enough. This "costs" $100 from my balance:

Year     Paid     Used    Balance

2009    $120    $30     $90

2010    $120    $30     $180

2011    $120    $30     $270

2012    $120    $30     $360

2013    0          $30      $230 ($100 for “suspension”)

2014    0          $30      $100 ($100 for “suspension”)

2015    $120    $30     $190

2016    0          $30      $60 ($100 for “Suspension”)

2017    $120    $30     $150

2018    0          $30      $20 ($100 for “Suspension”

[barndoor]

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@Sarcee wrote:

I talked to another CSR today. Still no luck getting them to cancel the expiry date if I transfer my balance to a new plan. 

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What do you mean ...cancel the expiry date ? If you go  with say ... the ten dollar a month plan  won't they let you transfer the balance and use it  up  for that plan ?  How does the expiry  matter then ? 

[Sarcee]

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@barndoor wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

I talked to another CSR today. Still no luck getting them to cancel the expiry date if I transfer my balance to a new plan. 

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What do you mean ...cancel the expiry date ? If you go  with say ... the ten dollar a month plan  won't they let you transfer the balance and use it  up  for that plan ?  How does the expiry  matter then ? 

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No, remember I said they told me my balance would still expire in 5 months if I switched to the $10. / month plan. They'll transfer my balance, but the balance would still expire. I was hoping any expiration would be cancelled once on a different plan.

[barndoor]

Yes , I remember now .....I guess I  just couldn't believe that was the best they would do for you considering you  are moving to a more expensive plan and you are staying with them .  .

So because somebody was so stingy and accrued a big balance  they will give them a great deal but they penalize someone that spends a little more  and doesn't have a big balance to complain to the CCTC about ... 

That is why I don't like all the wheeling and dealing that goes on  . It just  shows  that the only loyalty  that Rogers has is to money.  Otherwise they would set their plan parameters  and stick to them   in a standardised format . I have no problem  with quantity discounts  ... but just because you take the same plan and use it differently  shouldn't entitle one person to be treated differently  IMO . That said  it is ROgers's business  and if that is the way they want to treat customers that is their right to do . 

On that note I'd use up as much of that balance as possible and then switch providers if they can't treat you the same as they have treated some others here . 

Good Luck .

[Sarcee]

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@barndoor wrote:

Yes , I remember now .....I guess I  just couldn't believe that was the best they would do for you considering you  are moving to a more expensive plan and you are staying with them .  .

So because somebody was so stingy and accrued a big balance  they will give them a great deal but they penalize someone that spends a little more  and doesn't have a big balance to complain to the CCTC about ... 

That is why I don't like all the wheeling and dealing that goes on  . It just  shows  that the only loyalty  that Rogers has is to money.  Otherwise they would set their plan parameters  and stick to them   in a standardised format . I have no problem  with quantity discounts  ... but just because you take the same plan and use it differently  shouldn't entitle one person to be treated differently  IMO . That said  it is ROgers's business  and if that is the way they want to treat customers that is their right to do . 

On that note I'd use up as much of that balance as possible and then switch providers if they can't treat you the same as they have treated some others here . 

Good Luck .

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Thanks! I'll keep trying until I hit the right CSR

[barndoor]

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@BS wrote:

I don't recall the exact wording, but there was a notice of change, which some received and others did not, and people were asked to contact pay as you go to discuss options to deal with any remaining balances, how they could be consumed by the end of the year, and what kinds of plans you wish to go forward with.

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Actually Bruce ... I believe(referencing the initial post in this thread) ROGERS said  THEY would be contacting customers  with possible solutions for this issue .....   I'm curious if anyone has heard a peep from them yet ? 

[barndoor]

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@57 wrote:

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If you're wondering how I got down to $75/year, here's a rough table of my cellphone usage  I'm on Auto-Top-Up at $10/month, but suspend the top ups for a year whenever my balance is high enough. This "costs" $100 from my balance:

Year     Paid     Used    Balance

2009    $120    $30     $90

2010    $120    $30     $180

2011    $120    $30     $270

2012    $120    $30     $360

2013    0          $30      $230 ($100 for “suspension”)

2014    0          $30      $100 ($100 for “suspension”)

2015    $120    $30     $190

2016    0          $30      $60 ($100 for “Suspension”)

2017    $120    $30     $150

2018    0          $30      $20 ($100 for “Suspension”

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I found it interesting that if you change the amount paid down to the $100 that some of us paid it only drops the average cost down to  about $72 a year .  

Now we must consider that  this calculation does not take the balance into account ... but unless you want to argue with Rogers about  how you can get full value from a big balance  this certainly looks like it has been the cheapest route to follow . 

[Sarcee]

True, it's only $72.00 per year. But 57 is paying $72.00 per year for $30.00 worth of air time (odd that it's exactly $30. per month). He's losing $42.00 per year of air time. He's buying 144 minutes (@.50 cents per minute) but only being able to use 60 minutes. So at the prorated rate, he's paying $1.20 per minute to use his phone.

In the very long run, this may work out to be worth it, if (and only if) the phone has a known steady low use rate.  But if the usage fluctuates it throws off the long term value.  For instance, a few years ago, I had about $260. in my balance. That same year I moved, and was without a landline or computer for two months, so I had to rely entirely on my cell phone (it's not even a smart phone, it's a Doro flip phone). Thank God I had that balance, because I spent around $225. worth of phone calls and texts during those two months that year.  That's why I like to keep a relatively high balance on my emergency phone -- for, you know -- emergencies. I also use my phone for when I'm running around town and need to contact people, telling them I'm going to be late,  asking directions, calling the city transit info line, etc. In a normal year, my average usage is around $10.00 per month, but this can fluctuate, depending if I'm out of town, looking for a job, looking for an apartment, etc.

[57]

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@Sarcee wrote:

1. ...57 is paying $72.00 per year for $30.00 worth of air time (odd that it's exactly $30. per month).

2. He's losing $42.00 per year of air time.

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1. As I mentioned, the table is simply a rough illustration (obviously, simplified).  With my $10/mo plan, I can add more $ whenever I want, so if I ran into a situation like yours where I needed more airtime, it would be easy for me to use MyRogers to add as much as I want. In addition, there is an option in my plan to automatically add more $ if my balance reaches a certain point.  I could also switch plans if I believed my situation changed long term requiring more minutes.  There is no need for me to add more money before I need it.

2. Also as previously mentioned, I consider my cell phone insurance and I'm not "losing" anything.  Would you prefer I continued to pay $100-$120 per year and lose more?  Would you prefer if I made useless calls to use up my time, thereby spending less per minute but more per year?  I prefer to spend $70-$75/year for insurance and some use of my cell phone when needed.  I realize exactly how much I'm paying "per minute", but I prefer to look at my overall yearly and decade costs.  If you have an option that would cost me less long term, while keeping my cell phone, I'm all ears. 😉

[barndoor]

Yes @Sarcee  ...but there is no cheaper plan that I can find for those  that use a phone for emergency  reasons ( actually it is the cheapest way I can access 200 texts a month which is all I need ...we never make calls on that phone ) . I don't care about the cost per minute   because there is no cheaper way to access a phone than this plan  and as has been shown  using balance only makes that cheaper  even than paying the hundred dollars a year every year  ... I have no use for a big balance.

In your case though , the new ten dollar flat rate plan   sounds perfect.  It'll  cost a tad more but you get more. 

[Sarcee]

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@57 wrote:

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@Sarcee wrote:

1. ...57 is paying $72.00 per year for $30.00 worth of air time (odd that it's exactly $30. per month).

2. He's losing $42.00 per year of air time.

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1. As I mentioned, the table is simply a rough illustration (obviously, simplified).  With my $10/mo plan, I can add more $ whenever I want, so if I ran into a situation like yours where I needed more airtime, it would be easy for me to use MyRogers to add as much as I want. In addition, there is an option in my plan to automatically add more $ if my balance reaches a certain point.  I could also switch plans if I believed my situation changed long term requiring more minutes.  There is no need for me to add more money before I need it.

2. Also as previously mentioned, I consider my cell phone insurance and I'm not "losing" anything.  Would you prefer I continued to pay $100-$120 per year and lose more?  Would you prefer if I made useless calls to use up my time, thereby spending less per minute but more per year?  I prefer to spend $70-$75/year for insurance and some use of my cell phone when needed.  I realize exactly how much I'm paying "per minute", but I prefer to look at my overall yearly and decade costs.  If you have an option that would cost me less long term, while keeping my cell phone, I'm all ears. 😉

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For your specific needs, which as I said, are low, regular, non-fluctuating usage costs, the plan seems to work for you, even though you're paying a higher per minute rate. If you needed to add more money, you would be paying an even higher per minute rate. And you already ARE paying $100. per year, sometimes through adding more air time, sometimes by giving Rogers $100. from your existing balance simply to extend for another year. You are losing money in terms of what you pay for vs what you get, but that merely results in a higher per minute cost, which over the course of a year, is worth it to you.

So for you, the Talk All Day Plan seems to work.  My usage is slightly higher, and can fluctuate, so I need to either be able to use the full economic value of any air time I buy, or switch to a different plan.