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RogersZia
Hello, I recently came across MoCA to use your house's existing coax cables as a pseudo ethernet port. I've been reading up on how exactly to get it all to work and I'm still lost on what I'll need and if it can even be done.
I'm looking at these MoCA adapters
Now, the part that is confusing me is all this talk about splitters and filters and what not. In my electrical box, I see a coax going into a weird looking splitter.
Do I have to remove those cables and buy a MoCA splitter? Do I have to add a MoCA filter to the black wire at the top? I also have a gray box on the outside of my house with wires. Should I check in there for anything?
Also, I'm pretty sure I have more than 3 rooms with working coax ports in them, why are there only 3 in the splitter?
If I get everything set up, should I run an adapter from my modem or should I enable MoCA on my modem (XB6) and use that as the "home base"?
One more thing. The adapters I linked comes with a splitter. I'm assuming that is so I can attach the adapter and modem to the same coax port that the modem is currently using, yes?
Sorry for all the questions, this is very intimidating and lots of information to sift through. I'm not comfortable just unhooking cables at the panel without worrying about messing anything up. Any advice would be appreciated!
P.S. Here is the splitter I'm looking at...https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07RB61LR9/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A2N4NEZPB53SEZ&psc=1
***Edited Labels***
@Leafs4ever this is actually pretty straight forward. Here’s what it would look like:
Incoming -> Cable -> MoCA -> MoCA -> cable --------------> splitter -> Modem
Cable Ground Point splitter -> cable -> adapter -> MoCA adapter
Block Of -> cable -> adapter
Entry
Filter
The question of whether or not to use the MoCA capabilities in the modem versus using a MoCA adapter is a good question. Unfortunately Comcast and Rogers hasn’t released any information regarding the MoCA capabilities of the modem, so no one knows if the data rates are capped or not. So, for example, if you were running gigabit service, would you actually see 900+ Mb/s via MoCA, or would it be reduced? I don’t think anyone can give you that answer, so, this is a trial and error answer. You could start by just using the modem’s MoCA capability. If it works as you expect, hurrah. If not, buy another adapter and high frequency splitter to install at the modems location.
Fwiw, the new 2.5 gigabit MoCA adapters use Maxlinear chipsets, same company that bought Intels modem division. I’ve seen posts for gocoax adapters which use the same chipset. In the presence of other MoCA controllers, the mixture of MoCA controller in an older Nextbox and the MoCA controller in the gocoax adapter, the two of them did not work together as the gocoax wanted to control the MoCa network and wouldn't take no for an answer. I don’t know if this same situation would exist today, if a mixture of the XB6 and the Actiontec ECB250K02 MoCA controllers would run into the same problems. Either it would work or it wouldn’t. You would probably know pretty quickly if it didn’t.
For the configuration as stated above, you already have the cable ground block, which is the ground block that holds the single incoming cable (black) and the three outgoing cables. That’s pretty unusual to see. Typically there is a single cable ground block installed, which has one cable coming in, and one going out. Grounding the three cables is overkill, but, you still need that ground block.
Leave the incoming black cable connected to that ground block. After the ground block, you would disconnect the three cables and connect an MoCA Point of Entry Filter to the center port. That would connect to a MoCA splitter of sufficient size for your intended number of MoCA adapters. If you intend to have three rooms with MoCA running, then you need a MoCA splitter with three output ports. If you need only two rooms, then the MoCA splitter only needs two output ports. So, very simply, you size the MoCA splitter to match the number of adapters you intend to use including the modems’ location. Note that the larger the splitter, the greater the signal drop thru the splitter, so, signal levels could become a problem at the modem depending on where their at presently.
From those output ports of the MoCA splitter, you would connect the cables that run to the intended rooms. In the case of the modem location, if you don’t intend to buy an adapter for that location, then you don’t need the secondary splitter. You would simply keep the current modem connection and turn on the modem’s MoCA functionality.
In the other rooms, if there is nothing else to connect to the cable system, then it’s a matter of connecting a short cable to the rooms wallplate port, which then connects to the adapter.
For the modem’s location, in the event that you find that mixture of modem MoCA controller and adapter MoCA controllers don’t play well together, you will probably have to buy another adapter and a high frequency splitter.
As for the splitter that you pointed out that looks like a satellite splitter. My only question is whether or not it has the necessary internal port to internal port frequency response to support MoCA 2.0/2.5. It certainly has input port to output port and reverse frequency response, just not sure of the internal port to internal port frequency response.
Personal opinion, I’d buy a Holland Electronics MoCA splitter. Here’s the main site:
Holland Electronics | Online Catalog | RF Products | CATV | Satellite | OEM
Here’s the MoCa splitter page:
Here’s the spec sheet that shows the various splitters:
http://hollandelectronics.com/catalog/upload_file/GHS-PRO-M.pdf
The splitter that you linked to is a 6 way splitter. Do you intend to run MoCA to 6 rooms? If not, then you should be looking to minimize the splitter size in order to keep the signal loss thru the modem to a minimum. Fwiw, Rogers might supply you with a MoCA splitter such as one of the splitter shown on the bottom of this page:
https://www.antronix.com/products/moca/
If you run across a Rogers tech on your travels, ask him or her if you can scrounge a MoCA filter of the size that you require to do the job. It never hurts to ask the question as they say.
If you’re looking to run MoCA to 6 rooms, then I’d suggest an MoCA qualified amplifier such as the following. It comes in 5 port and 9 port configurations:
https://www.amazon.com/Active-Return-5-Port-Amplifier-PPC-5M-U/dp/B086R3HCF2
https://www.amazon.ca/Entry-Active-Return-9-Port-Amplifier/dp/B076BK1F86
Those amplifiers have built in MoCA filters. Note that if you go this route, you might have to bring this in from the U.S. I wasn't able to find a Canadian source tonight.
Note that Rogers might supply you with a MoCA amplifier as seen on this page:
https://www.antronix.com/products/residential-amplifiers/moca
The techs should have the splitters in their van, the amplifier is a good question, don’t know, but, again, it never hurts to ask the question.
It might be worth a call to tech support to see if Rogers will supply you with the splitter or amp. Perhaps they will arrange for a tech visit at no cost??? I’d check on the no cost issue. It would make sense as signal levels come into play here.
Ok, that should do it. With all of the parts collected, it’s a matter of connecting one to another until its all set up and then firing it up. The only real question is whether or not the MoCa controllers in the adapters will play with the MoCA controller in the modem. This should work, but, be prepared to buy another adapter and a satellite splitter so that you have the required frequency response thru the splitter that you will require at the modem location. I’d also consider installing a MoCA Point of Entry filter on the modem to protect it from the MoCA network if you were going to use a separate adapter. You shouldn’t need it but, I’d consider adding it.
Alright, so I had a Rogers tech come in today to look at my set up. First thing, I sent a picture of the wrong hook up. Apparently that was an old hook up from Bell. Here is my current Rogers set up:
First picture is the cable from the outside and the second picture is the current Rogers set up. As you can see, it's just 1 cable to 1 cable.
Second, the tech did not know anything about MoCa so I didn't get any help from him in that regard. He brought a couple of splitters, but they were yellow labelled ones and he wasn't sure if they were even MoCa compatible. So, I need to find my own splitter I guess. He told me, I would just need to take those two cables apart and then attach the outside cable to the in port of the splitter and the other to the out port. He also said I could take the other 3 wires that are hooked up in the other splitter and move them to the new MoCa splitter. Is that all I would have to do for this than? Would I still need the POE filter? And if I do, the filter connects to the IN port and the outside cable goes into the filter right? Oh, and do I connect the splitter to that current silver splitter or remove that entirely? I do see that there is a copper wire attached to it. Also, when I unhook the cable wires and put them back together, does that mess up my internet settings or will it all boot up in the same way as if I just unplugged the modem and plugged it back in?
Here is a splitter I found and it says great for MoCa, but let me know if it'll work.
https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_3598_3600&item_id=059297
@Leafs4ever my apologies for not getting back to you sooner. Did the tech leave the splitters with you, and if so, do they happen to look like the Antronix splitters seen at the bottom of this Antronix product page:
https://www.antronix.com/products/moca/
If the splitters are the yellow faced Antronix splitters, then yes, they are MoCA II qualified.
From your picture, you have a single Rogers cable inbound into your home, connecting to a cable ground block. You still need that ground block so it should remain in place. Following that ground block, you would install a MoCA Point of Entry (POE) filter. Did the tech happen to leave on of those with you?
Following the ground block, you would connect the MoCA splitter.
You would then connect the house RG-6 cables to that splitter. With a MoCA qualified splitter, all that should remain is to connect the adapters to the coax cables and fire them up.
The splitter that you indicated might do, but, the question is, will that splitter support port to port communications, up to 1675 Mhz. MoCA qualified splitters allow port to port communications so that the MoCA adapters can communicate with each other. Other non-MoCA splitters might have a suitable frequency range from input to output and reverse, but, might isolate each port from one another. Due to the lack of specs for that splitter, its a guess as to whether it will support MoCA ops. You could buy one and try it out to see if it works. If you're able to drill down in to the adapters and see the signal levels, that would tell you if the splitter is suitable for MoCA ops.
Depending on what MoCA adapter you buy, its worth digging into the instructions so that you can log into the adapters, set them to run Delta band - Extended, which is the entire MoCA D Band, and also check the signal levels.
For a little reading on the subject, have a look at the following post from last week:
@RobertH1 that depends on what you're trying to do, point to point MoCA, or a MoCA network with more than two MoCA adapters.
There is also the question of the modem's MoCA capability. If you're running an XB6/XB7/XB8 modem, I'm not running any of those. So, if the modem has a MoCA capability, then the question is, "does the modem run D-Low, D-High or Extended D band (D-Low and D-Hi combined). I've never seen any description of the XB6/XB7/XB8 modem's MoCA capability, this becomes a question for @RogersMoin or @RogersTony. And if they can't answer the question, then it should be kicked up to the product manager.
The use of D-Low will overlap the DOCSIS extension which will run up to 1218 Mhz. So, the logical step is to restrict the use of the MoCA bands to D-Hi. Does Rogers already to that? Once again, that's a question for Moin or Tony.
Have a look at the following MoCA 2.5 spec document, specifically page 9 and 13, which show the frequencies in use by MoCA 2.5:
https://mocalliance.org/MoCA2/specification/MoCA_2.0_and_2.5_Device_RF_Characteristics-160808d.pdf
At the present time Rogers uses a frequency spectrum running from 5 to 1002 Mhz. The next DOCSIS extension up to 1218 Mhz will conflict with D-Low. Thats a known fact and is going to happen all over North America. The question is, for your location, is Rogers using the frequency extension up to 1218 Mhz, or not. If not, then you would be able to run the Extended D band, which would give you the maximum bandwidth allowed by any adapters you might choose to buy. Any limitation to either D-Low or D-High will result in a reduced bandwidth over the MoCA network. That may or may not be a concern, depending on what your internet plan runs for its top speed.
@RHstats are you using the same wifi network names and passphrases for the modem and routers? If so, I can see the possibility of the wifi devices migrating to the pods at some point in time.
It looks like you're running a network within a network, which is ok, and can be done, but the MoCA system provides a cross-over path which is probably unpredictable.
Do you happen to have another RG6 cable run going to the modem's location?
I am thinking about this and at a glance, the first thing I would do is ensure that the modem and router don't run the same wifi network names and passphrases. Thats an attempt to ensure that the two networks stay separate.
@RHstats as I read your posts, it seems that the goal here is to run the two networks, XB6 and Asus routers, but ensure that they remain as separate networks. Here's what I believe your network looks like at the present time:
Inbound -> MoCA -> MoCA 2.0 -> house -> MoCA 2.0 -> XB6 Modem -> RT-AC68U router --ethernet |
Rogers POE splitter RG6 splitter -> MoCA adapter <-- ethernet ---------------------|
cable filter cable
PPC
-> house -> MoCA adapter -> 8 port ethernet switch -> Asus router-> devices via ethernet
RG6
-> house -> MoCA Adapter-> RT-AC66U -> devices via ethernet
RG6
I'm not entirely sure if you have two or three Screenbeam adapters. I suspect that its a single adapter. Please let me know how many you have on hand.
What I imagine you're trying to do is to use the top RT-AC68U router as the main router for your Asus network, and use the other two routers in an ethernet connected AiMesh mode. At this point, if you only have a single adapter, I'd say that you need two adapters. One for upstairs where the modem is located and one in the basement where the 8 port switch is located. Turn off the modem's MoCA at this point as its not allowing you to run the Asus network on its own. That will leave the upstairs RT-AC68U in charge of the Asus network which is connected via MoCA. The Asus routers shouldn't care that there's a MoCA network sitting behind the ethernet cables.
Now, the one consideration here is that depending on what functions you're running on the 68U, you might see a marked speed drop compared to the current situation where the basement switch is seeing 880 to 900 Mb/s.
Thinking about that, when you have time, take a tour thru the router's tabs and sub tabs. Look at each function and for those functions that your not using and perhaps will never use, disable them. I'm thinking of items like Samba, Traffic Analyzer, QOS of any type, Media Server, UPNP, Port Triggering, Port Forwarding, NAT Passthrough, etc, etc. Only leave those items enabled that you know you're using. When that's all done, reboot the router and save a backup of the settings in case you ever need to reload the router again.
Some of the functions listed above will kill the routers Hardware Acceleration without warning. The end result is that your throughput speeds will drop. Asus has been accused of a hack job, well, ok, maybe. I'm not an expert, but, in essence the Hardware Acceleration basically routes traffic from the WAN port to the LAN PORT without processing by the routers processor. So, if you enable some of those above features, or perhaps run the Firewall Keyword Filter, then the data is routed thru the processor for some type of processing, dropping your throughput speeds. The Hardware Acceleration as shown in Tools.... Network will not show Runner: Enabled - Flow Cache: Enabled. One or both of those will be disabled. So, if you enable a function for any reason, reboot the router and then check the Hardware Acceleration to determine if there's been a negative impact on Runner or Flow Cache. I run Merlin's Asuswrt so I don't remember if the stock Asus firmware also has a Tools .... Network tab that shows Runner and Flow Cache.
Ok, other food for thought, you indicated that you were only seeing 100 to 120 Mb/s in the basement and 380 Mb/s on the main floor. I'm wondering why you're seeing such low speeds. The RT-AC68U is located on the main floor close to the modem correct? If so, then you should easily be able to achieve 500 Mb/s + considering the overprovisioning that Rogers provides for plans under 1 Gb/s. The AC68U is capable of running 900 Mb/s + on a speedtest without any router functions running. QOS will kill that data rate in a heart beat, as will other functions. When I was using my AC68U, I found that AiProtection would kill the IPV6 speedtests. It appears that AiProtection uses site reputation for IPV4 sites, so an IPV4 speedtest will run at normal speeds. An IPV6 speedtest would suffer as AiProtection appears to scan IPV6 packets, which slows down the data rates. At one point in time the speedtest.net servers that used IPV6 site addresses would switch to an IPV4 address to run the actual speedtest. If speedtest, especially Rogers speedtest servers, if that is what you use, has switched to full IPV6 addressing for the site address and the actual embedded speedtest, then you would see slower results due to AiProtections packet scans. So, if you use IPV6, temporarily disable IPV6, reboot the modem, the Mesh node and pc's and run a speedtest using the nearest Rogers speedtest. When the speedtest site is displayed, select Change Site. Type in Rogers, at which point the Rogers Speedtest servers will be displayed. Select the server that is closest to your home to see what comes up.
Is your wired for Cat-5e throughout the home? Is that thru structured wiring which is a wire bundle that runs from the structured wiring cabinet in the basement up to each room that requires multi-media services. That bundle is comprised of two RG6 cables, one Cat-5e cable for ethernet and one Cat-3, possibly Cat-5e for telephone purposes. There are variations on a theme these days with Cat-6 instead, and possibly fibre cables as well. So, the question is, is there only a single Cat-5e run from the main floor to the basement, or is that Cat-5e cable part of a structured wiring bundle, where you could run Cat-5e supported internet throughout the house. The fact that you're only seeing 100 to 120 Mb/s suggests that the cable only has two of the four internal wire pairs connected. Typically you would see something over 90 Mb/s, but, maybe its possible to see something above 100 Mb/s.
Ok, so, there's some items to consider. When you have time, can you try disabling IPV6 on the 68U, reboot the works and run a speedtest.
And can you let me know more about the Cat-5e run to the basement. Have you ever tested that cable with a LAN network tester which does nothing more than run a pin to pin continuity test from one end of the cable to the other. The LAN tester has two parts, a transmitter and receiver to allow the user to run an end to end test, looking for open connections, shorts between two wires, miswires, reversals and shield continuity.
Hi @RHstats. I dusted off my AC68U today, loaded the latest Asus firmware which is version 3.0.0.4.386.51255 released on the 2nd of Mar 2023, and ran a series of speedtests with AiProtection Off or ON. I was a little surprised in that the scan rules appear to have changed and there is a speed drop for IPV4 data when AiProtection is enabled. Its been a while since I tested this, but previously, AiProtection did not affect the IPV4 data rates. It does now.
So, a question comes to mind, are you running IPV4 only thru the router or running IPV6 which will be the default path the router as the connected devices will use IPV6 first, IPV4 second? If you're running IPV6 thru the router, that will be complicated by the IPV6 path thru the modem. Typically the modem runs in Bridge mode with the router behind it and the router negotiates the IPV6 prefix with the Cable Modem Termination System (CMTS) or the CMTS assigns the IPV6 prefix to the router. Not entirely sure which case it happens to be.
Ok, so, here are the results that I saw this afternoon thru my AC68U. I'm in the very west end of Ottawa, so the Rogers Kanata Speedtest server is the closest server to my location:
IPV4 speedtests: AiProtection Disabled AiProtection Enabled
all in Mb/s
Down Up Down Up
Speedtest Kanata 944.7 54.2 666.5 54.0
Rogers Server 945.6 54.3 602.3 54.2
945.6 53.8 657.5 54.3
Xfinity Detroit 560.8 42.2 716.6 39.0
717.1 35,0 622.0 36.1
775.8 40.1 653.5 34.8
Google Fibre 944.4 54.6 610.0 54.5
Speedtest 946.4 54.5 549.9 54.6
945.6 54.6 554,8 54.2
IPV6 speedtests: AiProtection Disabled AiProtection Enabled
all in Mb/s
Down Up Down Up
Speedtest Kanata 860.9 56.4 851.8 53.6
Rogers Server 749.6 55.2 865.6 53.5
450.0 53.4 803.3 53.7
685.9 63.1
Xfinity Detroit 695.5 35.4 478.9 37.9
548.0 40.9 728.8 38,3
530.7 40.1 612.9 37.2
Google Fibre 729.8 53.5 568.9 43.2 Peaked at 53 up
Speedtest 461.9 53.8 848.5 53.7
437.6 53.8 437.1 53.2
751.6 53.8 442.9 53.8
445.1 53.7
So, general observations:
1. Yes, the AC68U can run 940 Mb/s + on a speedtest using IPV4 only.
2. AiProtection does drop the IPV4 throughput which I did not expect to see
3. IPV6 appears to be slower than IPV4 with AiProtection disabled
4. The Kanata Rogers server IPV6 results indicate that IPV6 is faster with AiProtection enabled, which I didn't expect to see.
5. The Google Fibre speedtest results show that IPV4 is faster than IPV6 with AiProtection disabled.
6. The IPV6 Google Fibre speedtest results with AiProtection enabled are a toss-up, given how much of a drop there is when AiProtection is not enabled, but, it appears that IPV6 is faster with AiProtection enabled, which doesn't make sense. But, it is what it is.....
7. AiProtection does not appear to have any impact on the upload speeds.
With AiProtection enabled, the Cut Through Forwarding remains enabled. That is located under Switch Control. So, even though the Cut Through Forwarding is enabled, the download speeds thru the router drops.
Ok, so, thinking aloud her, I'm wondering why your speeds through the router are so low. I would think that you should still be able to hit 500 Mb/s+ if you have AiProtection enabled. What else is enabled on the router? And ... is the Cut Through Forwarding in Switch Control enabled, or possibly disabled due to some other function that is running?
I'm also wondering about the speed drop thru the Cat-5e cable that runs downstairs? I'm wondering specifically if there's an issue with the connectors which is causing a speed drop? If you were to connect that cable to the downstairs pc and then right click on the monitor symbol (internet) in the lower right hand task bar ..... select Open Network & Internet Settings. Select Properties on the next popup page. Scroll down so that you can see the Link speed (Receive / Transmit): It should indicate 1000/1000 (Mbps) as the AC68U upstairs has gigabit ports on it. If it indicates anything lower than 1000/1000 (Mbps), then there is a problem with the cable. I'm assuming that the cable is connected directly to one of the LAN ports on the AC68U.
I think at the present time I would concentrate on the speeds thru the AC68U and on the cable that runs downstairs to determine what the problems are with both.
Fwiw .... hope this helps.
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