Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

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rgl168
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 93

Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

Hi,

 

My in-laws just migrated from traditional Scientific Atlanta cable to Ignite TV.  I'm looking at their cable modem and found the settings as follows:

 

- the Firewall Security Level is set to Low

- MoCA is turned off

 

Questions:

- Why is the default firewall security is set to "Low"?  (The setting options are "Low", "Medium", "High" and "Custom".)  Have anyone changed the firewall setting to "Medium" and TV still works?

- The cable modem is MoCA capable.  Why doesn't Rogers leverage MoCA?  I checked panel in the basement and the tech completely disconnected all the coax ports in the house except for the one coax port that goes up to the cable modem.  If MoCA function is there in the cable modem, why not leverage it?

 

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-G-
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Posts: 2,148

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings


@rgl168 wrote:

Questions:

- Why is the default firewall security is set to "Low"?  (The setting options are "Low", "Medium", "High" and "Custom".)  Have anyone changed the firewall setting to "Medium" and TV still works?

- The cable modem is MoCA capable.  Why doesn't Rogers leverage MoCA?  I checked panel in the basement and the tech completely disconnected all the coax ports in the house except for the one coax port that goes up to the cable modem.  If MoCA function is there in the cable modem, why not leverage it?


I don't know why the Firewall setting defaults to "Low".  I've also tried it with "Medium" and the Ignite TV service still works fine as far as I can tell.

 

I'm also not sure how/where Comcast uses MoCA in their Xfinity installations but it's not used or supported by Rogers for Ignite TV, so it's disabled in the XB6.



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-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,148

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings


@rgl168 wrote:

Questions:

- Why is the default firewall security is set to "Low"?  (The setting options are "Low", "Medium", "High" and "Custom".)  Have anyone changed the firewall setting to "Medium" and TV still works?

- The cable modem is MoCA capable.  Why doesn't Rogers leverage MoCA?  I checked panel in the basement and the tech completely disconnected all the coax ports in the house except for the one coax port that goes up to the cable modem.  If MoCA function is there in the cable modem, why not leverage it?


I don't know why the Firewall setting defaults to "Low".  I've also tried it with "Medium" and the Ignite TV service still works fine as far as I can tell.

 

I'm also not sure how/where Comcast uses MoCA in their Xfinity installations but it's not used or supported by Rogers for Ignite TV, so it's disabled in the XB6.



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DaveC
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Posts: 8

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

Hi folks. Just got Ignite, and I'm wondering if I can put the now-unused coax cabling in the house to use. 

 

Right now, the only coax in use is the one to the Technicolor Xi6-T gateway, and it is not shared with any other coax in the house. There is no MoCA PoE filters in use anymore on the incoming line, as the tech stated that they should not be used with Ignite, so it was bypassed. That said, I now have a bunch of coax that is essentially a separate loop, connected together via a splitter with no input. 

 

Since I have a working ethernet switch connected to the Xi6  near one of those cable outlets, I'm wondering if i could add MoCA adapters to convert the remaining lines to ethernet (one at the switch, and one adapter at each outlet where I want an ethernet connection). Pricey, but I already know that powerline doesn't work well in the house, and I'd prefer wired to wifi if I can do it. 

 

Questions:

1) Am I overlooking anything in that setup that would cause an issue?

2) Would I need to add a MoCA PoE filter to the line? If so, where should it be added and would that cause issues with the Ignite TV and Internet service? 

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

Datalink
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Posts: 7,335

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

@DaveC yes, you can do exactly as you have outlined.  Just to note, you own all of the cabling in your home, which includes the power cables, and telecommunication cables.  So, you can to whatever you need to do or want to do.  The only restriction is the requirement to have an electrician do any work on power cables.  

 

Ok, to the matter at hand, if you're not going to use the modem cable for MoCA purposes, then all you need to do is swap the current splitter for a MoCA 2.0/2.5 qualified splitter.  The current splitter doesn't have the port to port frequency response needed to correctly run MoCA adapters.  With the splitter disconnected from the incoming cable, you don't need a MoCA filter. 

 

There are three adapters of interest:

 

1.  the Actiontec ECB6200 MoCA 2.0 adapter.  This shouldn't be hard to buy

2.  the Actiontec ECB6250 MoCA 2.5 adapter.  This might be available but hard to buy.

3.  the gocoax WF-803M MoCA 2.5 adapter.  This shouldn't be hard to buy.

 

The Actiontec 6200 is a mature product and appears to be pretty stable from the comments that I've seen.  The 6250 should be a slight stretch, technically speaking from its predecessor, so, my thoughts are that it should be stable as well.  

 

The gocoax does work, but its a fairly new product and it doesn't work well with other MoCA systems already up and running on the same cable network.  That shouldn't be the case here, but, just pointing it out.   A Gocoax rep does answer questions in the following Small Net Builders forum:

 

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/gocoax-moca-2-5-adapter.59499/

 

Ideally, with their higher bandwidth due to MoCA 2.5, the Actiontec ECB6250 or gocoax adapter should be the adapter of choice, biggest question is whether or not you can find and buy the Actiontec ECB6250s.  

 

The splitter will require replacing.  Holland Electronics manufactures MoCA 2.0/2.5 splitters:

 

http://www.hollandelectronics.com/catalog/catalog.php?product_id=catv-moca-splitter

 

Note that Antronix, who manufactures the spliiters used by Rogers, also manufactures MoCA splitters, so if you happen to see a Rogers tech one day in your travels, ask him or her for the appropriate sized MoCA 2.0/2.5 splitter.  

 

https://www.antronix.com/products/moca/

 

https://www.antronix.com/products/moca/moca-passive.aspx

 

The MMC2004 series splitters are the device that you are looking for, for an Antronix MoCA 2.0/2.5 qualified splitter:

 

https://www.antronix.com/pdf/DS-1197-SS-A02_MMC2000-Splitters.pdf

 

Just to note, there are a couple of other MoCA threads in the forum, just a matter of finding them. 



DaveC
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 8

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

Excellent. Thank you @Datalink for the detailed response. It's greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Dave

ikarib
I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

StarLink has just released two types of MoCA 2.5 Ethernet Adapters in packs of 2 and 3:

MN2525 - with one ethernet port

MN2550 - with two ethernet ports

Amazon.ca : starlink moca adapter

 

79mic79
I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

Just set up my ignite today and so far everything is working great (fingers crossed).
Ignite hub set to default router mode.
Home phone connected to phone1 jack, Ethernet 1 - output to my existing asus 86u aimesh that continues to a 68u upstairs , and the Ethernet 2 - output to a Actiontec 6250 Moca 2.5 adapter, to a 4 way splitter 5-2400ghz that runs to existing coax outlets in the house. Each outlet has its own Actiontec 6250. I turned on each box with ethernet plugged in and boxes automatically used ethernet mode and set up by themselves in 2 minutes. After everything was working I logged into the gateway settings on the wifi router and disabled wifi....so far so good! I did install a moca filter at incoming cable connection to the ignite router, no issues. Thanks to this forum I planned ahead and full install was just about 2 hours.
jevey1
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Posts: 1

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

@Datalinkforgive me I'm new to MoCA and I have only one connection which I would like to extend ethernet to over Coax. I am a Rogers Ignite customer, and have the Tecnicolor DOCSIS Cable Gateway, CGM4141ROG Modem/ router. In the reply below you state "if you're not going to use the modem cable for MoCA purposes". Does this mean I can use the incoming coax to the modem as part of my MoCA communications over Coax? Would I then install a MoCA qualified splitter onto this same cable going to the coax connections which I want to use? (My exisiting set up is the same a previously mentioned, the Coax enters the house, all splitter etc are left and the cable now only goes straight to my modem/router.

Would I then also need to install a point of entry filter at the connection where the Coax first enters my house? And of course I would have to enable MoCA in my router settings? Then at the end of the connection where I want to have ethernet access install a MoCA adapter? 

 

Note: I do not have structured wiring in my home, the Coax cable to my modem is RG-6. The cable going to my desired location is RG-59 and is about a 200' run. 

I've read in an older post, and is this still relevant info on the ignite system? "There is a good reason why you don't want to use the modem's MoCA output anyway.  From previous discussions, Rogers has been locking modems into the D-High band only, reserving the D-low band for the Nextbox Home PVR MoCA system.  You will get better performance from a pair of MoCA 2.0 adapters where you can use the entire D band."

Am I missing anything?

Datalink
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Posts: 7,335

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

@jevey1 welcome to the forum.  Absolutely no need to apologize 🙂

 

Ok, so no structured wiring.  Any sign of a dual RG-6 cable run to the modem's location?  If so, you could use the second cable run for MoCA purposes instead of using the modem's cable run.  

 

Since you have the Tecnicolor CGM4141ROG Modem the question of the day is whether or not it will play with any recent MoCA adapter.  One problem that came up not so long ago is the gocoax adapter which insists on being the MoCA network controller.  I don't know if that's due to the the gocoax's implementation of the chipset or if its how that particular chipset is designed to operate.  The chipset for the 2.5 Gb/s MoCA adapters is manufactured by MaxLinear, who also make the cable tuner for the Intel Puma 6 and 7 modems.  Anyways, because the gocoax adapter insists on being the network controller, there did not appear to be any way to get it to ignore any existing MoCA as used by the Rogers Nextbox, despite the fact that the gocoax adapter was set to operate above the existing Nextbox MoCA network.  So, this begs the question, is this a gocoax design error, or is this a chipset design error (I'd call it arrogance if that was the case).  

 

So, if you bought a single MoCA adapter and turned on the modem's MoCA network, I'm don't know what the end result will be.  With the older MoCa adapters that run 1 Gb/s, maybe they will let the modem be the MoCA network controller and you will end up with a functioning MoCA network?  With the newer 2.5 Gb/s MoCa adapter, I wouldn't guarantee the end result. 

 

The other issue is the D-Low, D-High situation.  I don't know how the XB6 modems are set to run in terms of the MoCA bands, same now for the Hitron CODA-4582 using firmware version 7.x    I'll have to ask how these are all set these days. 

 

So, if you bought one, and couldn't get it to work, that leaves you with little choice but to buy another adapter and chalk this up to experience.  At the present time, there isn't enough info around that I've seen which will let me make an accurate prediction.  Buying two adapters of the same model will work.  

 

The RG-59 run will be a problem, but, it is what it is.  Can you have a look at the cable jacket and see if its RG59B or RG59/U which has 75 ohm impedance?  RG59A has 73 ohm impedance.  Ideally you would have 75 ohm impedance throughout the cable system so you don't end up with impedance mismatches and signal reflection issues.  

 

For such a long cable run, you might want to consider using a MoCA amplifier such as the following, which has a MoCA Point of Entry filter built in.  

 

https://www.ppc-online.com/5-and-9-port-active-return-moca-enabled-coax-amplifier-splitter

 

One more point is the single cable port on the adapter versus the dual port adapters.  The newest Actiontec 6250 adapter has gone to a single port, which means that you need a high frequency splitter to run the modem and adapter off of the same cable run.  There are adapters around that have dual ports so, in theory, you plug the inbound cable into the input port and connect the modem to the output port.  The output port should run from 5 to 1002 Mhz, the question being, is this amplified or just an internal splitter.  The splitter would be the preferred choice as there is always the possibility of packet loss due to any amplification.  

 

So, in theory, the network looks like this:

 

 

Inbound -> MoCa -> MoCA -> port 1 -> RG-6  -> modem

 Cable          Point          2.0                                            

                        of          splitter                                                                  

                      Entry                    -> port 2 -> RG69 -> MoCA adapter 

                    Splitter                                                     (single port version)

 

 

 

Alternatively if you used a MoCA amplifier:

 

Inbound -> MoCa -> port 1 -> RG-6  -> modem

 Cable           2.0            

                      amp                                                                        

                                  -> port 2 -> RG59 -> MoCA adapter 

                                                                     (single port version)

 

All of the unused ports on the MoCA 2.0 amp should have 75 ohm terminators installed

 

 

If you used an amp and two single port MoCA adapters, it would look like this:

 

 

Inbound -> MoCA -> port 1 -> RG-6  -> High  -> port 1 modem

 Cable           2.0                                            Freq  -> port 2 -> MoCA adapter 

                      amp                                         splitter                 (single port version)

 

                                  -> port 2 -> RG59 -> MoCA adapter 

                                                                     (single port version)

 

The high frequency splitter would be something like a satellite splitter as you need to transit 5 to 1675 Mhz as a minimum thru the splitter, where the normal splitter only passes 5 to 1002 Mhz thru the splitter.  

 

Fwiw, the latest Actiontec 6250 adapters leave a lot to be desired in terms of the technical support.  Looks like Actiontec has sluffed off their tech support to Screenbeam with disastrous results.  If you decide to buy a MoCA adapter which runs 2.5 Gb/s, have a look at the following Starlink7 site which shows their MoCA adapters.  Take a read thru the MN25xx Start Guide and Configuration Guide.  They will answer a lot of questions.  Too bad Actiontec didn't publish the same guides as they appear to be a common document for 2.5 Gb/s MoCA adapters.  

 

https://starlink7.com/MoCA.html

 

Here's a link for Kiwee Broadband where the guide link is near the bottom of the page:

 

https://kiwee-broadband.com/moca-2-5-network-adapter-2-5gbps-ethernet-port/

 

Take a look at the the following MoCA 2.0/2.5 document, specifically page 9 figure 2-1 MoCA 2.0 Extended Band D Frequency Plan 

 

http://www.mocalliance.org/MoCA2/specification/MoCA_2.0_and_2.5_Device_RF_Characteristics-160808d.pd...

 

That shows sub-band D-Low and D-High.  Take note of the presence of D-Low and D-High and the overall D-Extended band which covers D-Low and D-High.

 

Also fwiw, here' s a link to the gocoax thread in the Small Net Builders site:

 

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/gocoax-moca-2-5-adapter.59499/

 

gocoax is yet another 2.5 Gb/s MoCA adapter.  These all use the same MaxLinear chipset, same company that builds the cable tuner for the 4582 modem.  MaxLinear bought Intel's Home Connected Division so they now own the Puma 7 modem line, which the 4582 belongs to.  

 

That thread is from a larger group of MoCA threads on that site:

 

https://www.snbforums.com/forums/moca-homeplug-hpna.34/

 

Ok, that should do it for now.  Let me know how you're progressing with this.  I'm interested in finding out how this turns out, and, I'll bug the engineers for some answers on the modem's MoCA settings. 



Cricketej
I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Ignite cable modem - MoCA, Firewall settings

Connecting Ignite Gateway to MOCA Actiontec 2.5:

Just got Rogers Ignite Gateway installed. Technician could not install modem on main floor so had to install in basement. Looking to use Actiontec 2.5 adapter. To hard wire to upper level room. How to connect? Thanks in advance.