UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 39

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

'dayzed007', it would seem you are up the proverbial creek without a paddle!

 

I would unplug your PVR, disconnect coax cable into box, restart PVR - wait till clock appears on display then reconnect coax cable into box while PVR is 'ON'  This is akin to a 'hail Mary' pass in football but worth a shot.

 

If that doesn't work, call Rogers to reset your PVR to factory.  If even that doesn't work,  you will need to replace your PVR (losing all your recordings unfortunately)  You can't transfer your recordings to another PVR.

 

Good luck!

 

 

I'm a Regular
Posts: 55

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

I don't understand why is Rogers forcing a update that by all accounts makes every aspect of the next box WORSE and more complicated everything from the guide to pvr functions to cc etc etc is much much worse on this navigatr then on the current/old GUI

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Thanks websurferdude.

I've tried this but there doesn't seem to be any restarting of my PVR, since it instantly goes to the errors I mentioned.It doesn't even attempt to boot itself.

 

Worse, Rogers tech can't communicate with my box from their end.  I'll hold out to see if an onsite Rogers tech can breath some life into it.

 

However, I've already decided that if I loose my recordings as a result of this, I'll take advantage of the 'fresh start' to cut the cord and move on to a net related box.  Maybe navigatr will prove to be a good thing afterall ;-)..... So Rogers, if you're paying attention to this, you might want to send your best tech for my service call.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,981

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@dayzed007:

 

As mentioned earlier and also since Rogers can't see your box, it's very likely that you have a signal issue, either at your home, or in your neighbourhood.  Do not exchange the box.

 

The technician should be able to track down the signal problem. 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 39

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

When i read that someone in North York had received Navigatr software overnight, i decided to turn my TV & PVR to see if i had it and sure as the sun rose in the East this morning, i had it too.

 

First thing i noticed was how small the guide was.  The good news was that all my recordings and scheduled recordings were present.  I played around with the recorded/scheduled recording filter.  So far, it looks better than i imagined (the fact that my recordings/scheduled recordings were preserved is a blessing in itself!)  Tomorrow will be the day i'm either pleasantly suprised or reaching for my 8300HD box!

 

I have followed each and every post on this thread and would like to offer my profound thanks for those techies (and regular users) on here (esp. Bruce!) who have given us 2nd (3rd) rounders of the Navigatr software the wherewithal to move around the software due to their patience in figuring certain parts of it out.  I think i speak for all who received the Navigatr software that we thank those guinea pigs who paved the way to (hopefully!) maneuver the maze that is Navigatr.

 

What they should have done after the July fiasco is hire the techies (Bruce, et al.)  to come down to Roger's HQs and create a workable PVR software.  Your pay could have been a year's worth of free cable TV or something along those lines.  Heaven knows, you guys probably could have done a much better job in a more speedier fashion!

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

thanks @57,

 

I don't plan to swap it out at least until the technician comes. To many recordings not to at least hold out for hope.

 

Unfortunately Rogers tech can communicate with the other boxes in my house, which are all down stream from this main PVR :-(.... So altho there is a chance there's a comm problem, it's rather small.

 

I suspect the update to Navigatr died part way through, leaving me with nothing but a paperweight.

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@websurferdude  Thank you for the compliments on the work that so many of us "guinea pigs" - voluntold (an army term) alpha testers and beta testers.  I think we together did a few things - we brought to the attention of the readers, as well as fighting hard up the line and some of us to higher levels and Ellen Roseman, just how we were being treated as consumers of a poorly implemented product.

 

We also provided people with workarounds to be able to survive through the mess at a basic level and to let people know what didn't work at all.

 

I am sure much of our writings served to guide the programmers and designers to at least get the box to where it is now.

 

 

We have also debunked the advertising hype of improved viewing experience, more efficient, faster, etc, by clearly demonstrating where it just was not true.

 

We were not able to provide the impetus to the companies involved that tiles just are not a good idea, and that in their programming and implementation, that tiles are not intuitive, lead to many more clicks.  If the purpose of tiles is to take us into another relm of how TV viewing is going to look, then just tell us so we can understand that this may be an interum step to something better, but in absence of that knowledge, we just suffer.  I will acknowledge it is far improved from the July version, but it still has work to be done - what is happening with the power saver, the discrepencies and poor interaction of functionality between the guide and PVR, in particular CC, and the info button, and moving the choice of CC to a logically, easily accessed place - anywhere you want, I don't care, but if you are going to keep it under more, make it accessible to all functions and playbacks, not just live tv.

 

Active communication around the early issues by all of us shut down the rollout in July, restricting the implementation of what was clearly a poorly thought out and implemented product change.  We see it again with the power saving function

An admirable idea, but they forgot the US version that by the way, the Canadian version is an advocated model, not mandated in any way, as at every CRTC hearing, the group involved actively asks every company present whether their setbox integrates these designs for power saving.  And keep in mind, that in the U.S. version, they emphasize that its implementation must not interfere with the functional design for best use of the product.  Rogers just focussed on the first statement that relates to powering down after 4 hours, and on top of that, never told us of its implementation until days into dealing with it.  In addition, they never even told us they implemented this, nor asked us - I suspect that being asked at every CRTC hearing has led to them implementing it (it is not CRTC mandated at this time), but they forgot to consider how it impacts the operations of the box.

 

We also learned that unlike most software and hardware companies, that provide us details on issues with products, software and firmware updates, and what fixes, or changes came from it, we are left to be surprised by the changes, figure them out on our own most of the time, and often are left to live with problems until we find the solutions and they finally respond to them.

 

But I so appreciate the acknowledgement, as I am sure do all of us of the unpaid work that we have done to extensively debug this both from a programming, design, and testing point of view, education to users, and also provide information on things like small fonts (defined by AODA - I know it is not mandated to be fully in place until January 2016, but we are told they are leaders - although I had to deal with a font issue with a major bank and its change in its interface to its online banking products.  It is more efficient, but they completely forgot to test what happens when a user sets font on their browser to large - they are responding immediately to my request to make a change).

 

It has been a huge frustration for all of us, but we kept at it - we are persistent and knowledgeable for sure.  We did get out of line of the terms now and then, but it resulted due to the reality that there is only so much frustration any human being can take before they step out of line in some manner.  The sarcasm and discourteous comments snuck in, and for that I do apologize, but I am only human, and for a long stretch we were completely ignored, so in a way, it became accepted.

 

There is nothing that annoys me more than poor IT implementation, that is not only poorly implemented, but also does not consider the user base and their preferences - this is true listening, running ideas off users before you go forward as others have said. And even more so is when users identify serious problems, and we here almost nothing back for months on end.

 

For me personally, it has been an education of Rogers in terms of their committment to customer relations, which they so strongly said they were going to improve a couple of years back.  The way that most staff interact with me on issues has improved, but on this one, it was clear that not only were we frustrated, but so was all the Rogers reps too.  We were all powerless, except to keep speaking up on the issue, and trying to be as productive as possible.  I have seen a significant deteriation in the implementation of many initiatives, many of them still not resolved after months of communication.  It has caused me to seriously consider whether I will stay once my contracts run out.  At times, I was even willing to pay the cost of cancellation and fight on that one due to unresponsive service support on many issues, but I have waited it out.  22 years is hard to let go of, but there is only so much that many of us can put up with.

 

 

I was just about to provide some feedback on some issues when I read your post, I sincerly thank you.  I am not posting very much at this moment because the frustration for me became just too great and unfortunately, it had a very detrimental on an existing mental health disorder that I have been working hard to deal with, so I have been told to balance my interaction with Rogers and its issues with focusing on the rest of life.

 

Thank you again, Bruce

 

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@websurferdude  By the way, we did offer to beta test and work with them to improve the box.  We never heard a peep back.  In addition, many of the representatives on the board offered to do the beta testing - also not a peep that we are aware of.

 

That was one of the other areas of frustration which was that our skills and knowledge and sincere attempts to make the product better and more user friendly remained unacknowledged, but we do see that much of what we said was considered in the redesign.  How about a little respect and consideration, acknowledgement to all of us for guiding you.  And please don't tell us you listened - we said it over and over again, and never heard a word.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

I just wanted to formally thank the teams for considering all the feedback on how to deal with making the product more user friendly and to remove the many bugs that existed due to what appears to be incomplete programming, or testing of all design components.

 

A couple of issues that remain for me

 

Since it appears that there is no going back from the tile design, which would be great on a touch screen, or touch remote but remains easier to work with software and apps such as the anywhere tv and home versions which take us back to standard and known way of working with what is basically an analogue, key driven interface (and since it is a key driven interface, tiles which are designed for touch just make no sense at all -  if this is an intermediary step to something new, big and better, just tell us where you are taking us.)

 

Easy navigation through the tiles - not intuitive - scroll up at top should take us to bottom, arrow right at the end of a row should take us to the first tile in the next row.

 

Consistent access to the tools on the info button across various functionality of the box, in particular on demand, and PVR, allowing us to access the more items, in particular CC.

 

More timely communication - it appears that looking at diagnostics that the last build was dated January 16, although many staff didn't know that before that the power saving function even existed, nor would appear that it was well tested.  It was a number of days, after the production of the new build before we got a formal notice to the effect that power saving was turned off for now.  Why would customers not be notified as soon as the change was rolled out. It would have removed the guessing, and strange behaviours we all developed to avoid the box going into corpse mode (well said whoever created that one, because it didn't go to sleep anywhere but live tv, and our boxes froze, so not just an issue of giving users more choice around use of the power saver to match our viewing habits, (that is why it is labelled voluntary by the way - reading the US standards, it is voluntary to the consumer how it functions so that it doesn't interfere with the core designed function of the set top box, but not voluntary to the producers to provide the options).  Here in Canada, the companies just get asked if they have done it at every hearing by the energy organization, and the CRTC to do date has ruled the question as not part of that hearing, so the CRTC has never dealt with it from my reading of hearings.  But they let them be on the hearing schedule, just won't rule on it, leaving them to keep the pressure on companies)

 

Please find a way to put the channel on the tile - reason, so that when we see a future recording, we can easily look at the guide and see what precedes and follows the scheduled times to avoid issues with shows that go past posted broadcast times.  If you can't do that, then at least put a list of the network names sorted by names, not channels, either online in a sortable format or with a search format, or in paper format with network first, followed by channell as the sort order.

 

See if there is anyway to pull up the full date, time, channell information for the future recorded shows so we can adapt if the network changes it up - if we have it programmed as same day, same time, we need to change things up.  It currently creates a lot of frustration monitoring our future shows, but I do appreciate that they are now there.

 

So on a basic level, I am not looking for much, I don't like tiles, never will, just not intuitive or efficient and it is not that I haven't tried to figure out how it could be; And the remaining issues are livable for now, but still need to be dealt with, or if not, just tell us.

 

We are the consumer - keep us in the loop. We pay for the equipment outright, or through renting.

 

May we continue to move foward and see both reliable products, timely fixes, solid testing with consumers in live beta situations before rolling out, and increased customer satisfication.  I really don't like to complain, but I do constructive criticism and recommendations, but when I get no feedback on the recommendations, I begin to not believe that I am being listened to, and frustration arises.

 

I just want to enjoy the services that I chose to pay for and be told what changes are being made, explaining how it will change my experience (not a general, we are working to improve your experience) - tell me exactly what you are changing.  I don't like surprises, nor having to figure out through trial and error on my own and with support staff.  I am sure the staff don't appreciate it either - they just want to support us with solutions, to guide us to desired services and go home knowing that most of their customers were served well.

 

Sincerely, Bruce

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 13,990

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


@dayzed007 wrote:

thanks @57,

 

I don't plan to swap it out at least until the technician comes. To many recordings not to at least hold out for hope.

 

Unfortunately Rogers tech can communicate with the other boxes in my house, which are all down stream from this main PVR :-(.... So altho there is a chance there's a comm problem, it's rather small.

 

I suspect the update to Navigatr died part way through, leaving me with nothing but a paperweight.

 


One thing you may want to consider..
As i had mentioned in my previous reply (you may have missed it), as 57 said, it may be signal, just to that one box.

You could try unpluging the cable from one of the good boxes.. then bring the problem one to that spot and try pugging it into that cable there and see if it boots/loads ok.