UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,139

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@JKnott  The time indicator is something that many have had issue with.

 

It and a number of items on the original list that @Gdkitty posted, have not been addressed,

but do keep raising them if they are important to you.  You are the consumer and if you feel you wish to suggest a change, go for it.

 

The issue of reminders and not changing the channel was listed in the Broken Need to be fixed.

Issue with indicating scheduling conflicts has not been addressed as far as I know, but I haven't tested for it either.

All others in that list have been dealt with already, or are in the new update coming in October - Happy Halloween, I want treats, not tricks please - Smiley Happy

 

The list was a concern/issue - not flagged as high priority because basically we never thought we would get it, but we are open for surprises for sure.

  • When you click on LIST while watching a recorded program, then press exit.. the progress bar will remain until exit is pressed (vs disapearing automatically)  This still happens, solution, hit escape.

Other than those few, and note somehow we missed the issue raised about the progress bar (oops), it seems that all issues have been ultimately dealt with.

 

The first edition of that list was created by (sorry, I can't even remember who did the original work way back when - a few did), within a few weeks of the July 2015, yes I said, 2015 - all in the other navigator thread now closed, but still there I believe if you feel like shaking your head a lot for those who did not experience it.

 

Many variations were put forward until, @Gdkitty published his list, with the assistance of @57 who also published at Digital Home forums, and pulled together all of the issues that were floating around in the lists, first posted by many, and confirmed by many, with agreement on proposed solutions by many.  It was a team effort to get us here for sure - and yes, Rogers did listen and respond, but we can't deny there was considerable silence along the way, and huge frustration that grew on all sides.

 

I do hope that the project team does the last step of any major project implementation (people get certification to learn how to run projects start to finish, mine is lapsed), but the last step is lessons learned.

 

They seem to be working on the communication side of things, a bit, thanks @RogersMargaret for passing on what you heard, and looping back to the team with our issues.  I had confirmation from the president's office that they now have dedicated staff in that department to read all social media and forwarding it to the relevant teams.

 

The only item I see is that I was also told that all testing is done internally, and that misses the whole important stage of beta testing.  Margaret has passed on our desire to involve this group, because we have a high degree of technilogical and theoretical knowledge in this group for sure.  It would avoid so much pain and suffering to the whole customer base, and the customer support and technical support team if true beta testing was done.

 

I won't deny that testing is done extensively, but until you involve the user, the job is only half done.

 

Finally, the how to's and FAQ's have been great, usually reactive, not proactive - mostly because it is hard to do proactive documentation and support when you haven't run it past users before you do the production rollout.

 

There is still much lacking on a  user manual for these devices, but that seems to be something that has been left by the way side, by some companies.  A reference to the Cisco original manuals and specs is useful, but does not include support for customations by Rogers.

 

Rogers does seem to have learned from this one, along with some other major IT and technical issues that impacted the user directly over the last couple of years, but most are fixed now, in some manner, or at least workarounds for those that are somewhat out of their control due to lack of consistency in things like browsers and security.

 

It is good to see that we haven't been in a position to create another thread that has run so long like this one.

 

I am happy to put it behind me and move on - hear is to the future,

 

But do please put forward remaining issues and concerns that impact your ability to have viewing enjoyment, and to suggest enhancements - and here's to seeing the IPTV change over and option rolling out with relatively few glitches.  All new technology will have glitches, but this one is a giant lesson learned for the company, and for us too.

 

Thanks everybody for your persistence, what ever level of patience you were able to hold, validation for any emotion you may have had along the way, they were legitimate, and we the consumer, if we are loud enough can result in change by speaking up persistently, and for some, they just walked away, probably just not worth their time.

 

I am still here, 24 years and counting, so I have been very persistant, taking breaks when necessary for my own health, but all of our work has paid off.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 264

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

"You are the consumer and if you feel you wish to suggest a change, go for it."

 

My suggestion has always been get rid of that Navigatr and go back to what we had before.  Navigatr is so bad it should never have been inflicted on customers.  I suspect it would be easier to start from scratch than fix all the problems with it.  I made this quite clear with my complaints to the Office of the President.  It is *REALLY* that bad,  compared to what we had before.

 

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,139

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@JKnott  The time indicator is something that many have had issue with.

 

It and a number of items on the original list that @Gdkitty posted, have not been addressed,

but do keep raising them if they are important to you.  You are the consumer and if you feel you wish to suggest a change, go for it.

 

The issue of reminders and not changing the channel was listed in the Broken Need to be fixed.

Issue with indicating scheduling conflicts has not been addressed as far as I know, but I haven't tested for it either.

All others in that list have been dealt with already, or are in the new update coming in October - Happy Halloween, I want treats, not tricks please - Smiley Happy

 

The list was a concern/issue - not flagged as high priority because basically we never thought we would get it, but we are open for surprises for sure.

  • When you click on LIST while watching a recorded program, then press exit.. the progress bar will remain until exit is pressed (vs disapearing automatically)  This still happens, solution, hit escape.

Other than those few, and note somehow we missed the issue raised about the progress bar (oops), it seems that all issues have been ultimately dealt with.

 

A  history and Kudos:

 

The first edition of that list was created by (sorry, I can't even remember who did the original work way back when - a few did), within a few weeks of the July 2015, yes I said, 2015 - all in the other navigator thread now closed, but still there I believe if you feel like shaking your head a lot for those who did not experience it.

 

Many variations were put forward until, @Gdkitty published his list, with the assistance of @57 who also published at Digital Home forums, and pulled together all of the issues that were floating around in the lists, first posted by many, and confirmed by many, with agreement on proposed solutions by many.  It was a team effort to get us here for sure - and yes, Rogers did listen and respond, but we can't deny there was considerable silence along the way, and huge frustration that grew on all sides.

 

I do hope that the project team does the last step of any major project implementation (people get certification to learn how to run projects start to finish, mine is lapsed), but the last step is lessons learned.

 

They seem to be working on the communication side of things, and being more careful on testing and rollout to pruduction - I guess in a way, the first rollout area is the beta - not a voluntary group, with no list of changes or feedback mechanism to developers.  They fortunately did stop it fully last August when it was clear that many of the concerns were mission critical items.

 

Thanks @RogersMargaret for passing on what you heard, and looping back to the team with our issues.  I had confirmation from the president's office that they now have dedicated staff in that department to read all social media and forwarding it to the relevant teams.

 

The only item I see is that I was also told that all testing is done internally, and that misses the whole important stage of beta testing.  Margaret has passed on our desire to involve this group, because we have a high degree of technilogical and theoretical knowledge in this group for sure.  It would avoid so much pain and suffering to the whole customer base, and the customer support and technical support team if true beta testing was done.

 

I won't deny that testing is done extensively, but until you involve the user, the job is only half done.

 

Finally, the how to's and FAQ's have been great, usually reactive, not proactive - mostly because it is hard to do proactive documentation and support when you haven't run it past users before you do the production rollout.

 

There is still much lacking on a  user manual for these devices, but that seems to be something that has been left by the way side, by some companies.  A reference to the Cisco original manuals and specs is useful, but does not include support for customations by Rogers. The How to's and FAQ's serve as a helpful tool.

 

Rogers does seem to have learned from this one, along with some other major IT and technical issues that impacted the user directly over the last couple of years, but most are fixed now, in some manner, or at least workarounds for those that are somewhat out of their control due to lack of consistency in things like browsers and security.

 

It is good to see that we haven't been in a position to create another thread that has run so long like this one.

 

I am happy to put it behind me and move on - hear is to the future,

 

But do please put forward remaining issues and concerns that impact your ability to have viewing enjoyment, and to suggest enhancements - and here's to seeing the IPTV change over and option rolling out with relatively few glitches.  All new technology will have glitches, but this one is a giant lesson learned for the company, and for us too.

 

Thanks everybody for your persistence, what ever level of patience you were able to hold, validation for any emotion you may have had along the way, they were legitimate, and we the consumer, if we are loud enough can result in change by speaking up persistently, and for some, they just walked away, probably just not worth their time.

 

I am still here, 24 years and counting, so I have been very persistant, taking breaks when necessary for my own health, but all of our work has paid off. But I can't deny, I have almost walked numerous times, just couldn't figure out where I wanted to go.  But I am still here and thank everyone for getting us to this point - technology is extremely complicated as we ask of it to do everything but fix the kitchen sink. More complexity, greater probability of failure with very difficult fixes.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,139

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Well I haven't been on here in a while to report a new experience for me. Over the last three days, I wanted to watch a show that we had set to recording as we popped into the end of th movie - So we watched a bit of the end, recorded the balance, then did a search using the search - yeh I know, why would I do that we all know it doesn't well.

 

But I got a list of St Vincent 2 on demand pay per view first - HD and SD, a tmn version hd and sd, and another 2 from the live showing.

 

Well, I attempted to select one - the box completely froze - so after 5 minutes, rebooted it.

 

Tried to find it on demand in the TMN HD movies list - pushed the list A-Z, said loading for about 30 seconds, got a timed out message and a phone number to call and error.

 

Tried again, it worked - went on with life just fine.

 

Happened the same day again with a different show - having catalogue no available, then box froze - went through reboot, and then I got an error again, one more reboot.

 

Happened all again tonight - decided to call in for support - listened to the usual automated processes about rebooting and how to reathorize the box (can't I have a prompt that says: I did all these, need a human being), rather than three layers first and reference to web site on how to do it all.

 

Explained it all to the woman - fast response - repeated it for her, got same issues once, not the second time - she suggested staying away from search for on demand, they know about it, in particular if the show is playing at same time, and please be patient with the menu population that they know it is slow, and she has heard it is coming in a new upgrade (I asked her if it was the October upgraded reported on Community Forum). She asked if I knew of the information, I laughed and said, I along with many others contributed to writing that information for the teams to work with and I was actually the first poster on the box July 2015 - She thanked us all for our input and said she hopes this is in next build and that everything is fixed - I said, I do too. I took her through standard trouble shooting - signals all fine, box shows that it was just rebooted, told her yes, 5 times in last 3 days, all cables are tight, and we did troubleshoting trying to access on demand shows in different ways - replicated the erros some times, not others, and tried the other scenarios, some with errors, some with not.

 

So no furhter ahead - but   why or why did I use search - anyplace tv on my computer makes more sense.

 

So thanked her and we said goodbye.

 

Don't know what has caused this new problem - reminds me of the on demand server issues from last years - long delays, freezing, and I think may also have to do with watching a PVR show, and deciding to search on demand for a future show, or guide to locate and set up an new show for the future - guess I am just pushing it too hard - I have the PVR Nextbox 3, no home TV.

 

So I will keep you up to date and next time write down each step, and times to populate, errors, what is running, etc and then see if I can replicate it, but I have to wait until I am alone - not as convient now as my wife is now home unemployed, so I can't test at wil anymore.

 

Anyone else seeing this.

 

And to @JKnott, this box is really an aboniation, has been from day one, poorly designed, jury rigged together with a mish mash of many companies - ANT to ESPIAL, Cisco to technical, then seems to be back to Cisco with still Vantage application, Espial RDK gone, no PVR on 4K, 4K boxes that don't work with Samsung well, wiped recordings, and one of the worst implentation examples in my whole industry in the field, theoretically and practically.  I don't know what is worse - Samsung phones blowing up - well that one is obvious, lives and property are at risk.  Only risk of the box is loss of lots of customers, lots of returned boxes, lots of frustration for everyone, but it certainly ranks up there with most disastorous implementations - we can compare it to Vista, or Windows 8 (not 8.1), Windows 3.0 before 3.1 came along and the workgroups version came along, Mitel telephones, and some others and we could cover the car industry too - Pintos, transmissions slipping into drive or reverse and so on.

 

I wasn't please to be fighting with the box again, I told her to document it as unpredictable failure of search, failure of listing of available shows (text view of TMN, on demand - she had me try channel 309 - didn't make any difference), could be conflicts of different actions while working with the box, but I haven't started doing full testing, and wil wait for the October tests, and for now, I will reboot, don't use search, make sure that I am not using PVR when finding an on demand item - that was all we could come up as possibilities.

 

And the saga continues.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 99

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

"Issue with indicating scheduling conflicts has not been addressed as far as I know, but I haven't tested for it either."

 

To answer your question...No, this has not been addressed.  Is really a big issue with the 2.0 that has only 2 tuners.  If you go to program a show and there is a conflict it will tell you when you are setting it up (as before).  Where the problem arises is when you have already scheduled series recordings and the times change later on...could go over by a minute, or be a special extended version of the show.  Example:  A few weeks ago Survivor ran from 8 to 9:30 instead of it's regular 8 to 9 timeslot.  I had 2 programs prescheduled for the 9 to 10 timeslot.  Pre-navigator, the system would have shown me a symbol (looked almost like a hazardous waste symbol) in the scheduled listings beside the conflicts, letting you know there was a conflict you had to address.  In Navigatr, it just arbitrairly chooses which one not to tape.  Although Rogers Margaret claimed in a post that this was checked and there is no problem, I know that Rogers does in fact know they took this feature away because they gave me a free 3.0 in the spring to compensate me for this problem.  I usually always now use the 3.0 for programming to avoid the conflicts.

 

The bigger problem is that most Rogers employees that I have spoken to, do not actually own/use the NB3 and the testing done is very limited...you can tell from their how to demos...only a few recordings and limited disk space used.  If they actually used the PVR's the way we all do, they would soon discover the NUMEROUS bugs and how aggravating the whole abomination really is.

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Hi @BS and @BS and @Molly22 As I understand it, Search is a centralized function not tightly coupled to the new, slowly being fixed, PVR software disaster. So all types of boxes see the same search results and the same problems. I also understand that search and the guide data can be and often are different, causing confusion on occasion. Perhaps @57 can confirm
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,631

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

"Search" on a STB/PVR certainly seems to be centralized and sometimes "biased" towards increasing Rogers profits.  I'm not sure if SARA firmware boxes "see" exactly the same search results.

 

I always use the search function on AnyPlace and therefore don't get inundated with results for VOD, or single channels, etc.

 

I believe I mentioned in one of the AnyPlace threads that the "database" for the STB/PVR IPG and the "database" for AnyPlace are actually different separate databases, so the results of one are not the same as the results of the other.

 

The main takeaway is that Navigatr itself is not to blame for search issues, rather the database and the "slant" that Rogers puts on those search results for STBs/PVRs.



I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,139

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@57  Thanks for the confirmation.  I will stick to Anyplace TV and hope for the best.

 

Bruce

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@robindpsaid: Suggestions regarding Closed Captioning (CC): - The "C" button on the remote should be mapped to enable/disable CC with a single button press. This would be the fastest and most convenient way to enable/disable CC. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________'_________________ Agree it's a great solution. Would win lots of CRTC points. When I complained to them back back in July 2015 about the Navi disaster, their main concern was poor accessibility features. BTW was in PEI recently, the way to get cc on/off there is truly bizzare. Turn box off, leave TV on. Get a 1980s text style menu screen and click a few times to change the cc to on or off. Then turn the box back on !!
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 54

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

 BTW was in PEI recently, the way to get cc on/off there is truly bizzare. Turn box off, leave TV on. Get a 1980s text style menu screen and click a few times to change the cc to on or off. Then turn the box back on !!

I wouldn't give the navigator software team any ideas Smiley Happy

 

Would still like the D button that brings up the weather on screen to be an on/off as well and I REALLY  wish they would stop  changing the guide back to all channels from subscribed.Seriously how hard can some of this really be