UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

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I'm an Advisor
Posts: 764

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Hello @sepandee,

You have missed nothing, the 'delete multiple items' and 'pressing info stops content' are issues introduced with Navigatr. Many of us in the suburbs have been suffering with Navigatr software and severe feature regressions since July of 2015. 

 

I hope these things get fixed, soon. 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 2,746

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


@sepandee wrote:

The other thing is pressing the info button when watching previously recorded TV. It would continue playing, and I could still see and select the different options (such as CC), but now, not only does the recording stop as you navigate to the new information page, but I also can't find options such as turning CC on/off. Am I missing something?


 

Please see the following summary post:  Take the 5-10  minutes to read the various issues/tips.  It will save you hours of frustration

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes/message...

 

Also, see the following How To Thread:

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes/thread-...



I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016 I

@TomSullivan Very well put - I think the problem here is that Espial was hoping to implement their complete RDK solution, but Rogers decided not to go with the full solution, but agreed to go forward with the top layer put on top of whatever was currently sitting on the cisco boxes and what Cisco and now Technicolor was willing to support.  I think the Cisco sale put a whole wrench in the implenentation, so what came out was the top layer (which is the guide primarily), with poor implementation to the box, PVR and on demand which are closer to the hardware level and further from the user interface for live TV.

 

I think we have a basic idea what happened, it is just that we have had to fend for ourselves, as well as almost all of the support teams, and customer service levels, because there really weren't any clear answers, except that they were listening, and no we couldn't go back.

 

So I think good tech implemenation got bipassed due to the reality of supplier and contract required implemenations that resulted in an implentation that was not even under the original design model, with no time to even consider how to respond to the issues either completely, or in a timely way.  This doesn't absolve Rogers from responsibility, but money does make the world go round.

 

Bruce

I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

trying to find out if anyone has the same issues as I do. I have a taped episode that shows as "taping" and won't allow me to stop or delete. I have other episodes of taped items where when you hit delete after watching them it highlights "watch" and starts over. I can pick an episode of something I have taped, choose it and the one beside it pops up. Thinking it was me I wait for it to catch up (60 seconds), make my choice and it still occurs. Irritating. I agree with other folks that I was hoping to have the search allow for separation between TV and On Demand. Sorting by taped from items already taped (like the previous version) would have been nice to keep. Main frustration is the buggy nature of those items that are recorded.

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016 I

hi  @BS am back home tomorrow.

Hopefully there will be some visible changes over the past 3 weeks.

Of course, The new customer/ user guides and aides are amazing

 

 I do not share your view on RDK (which is one firms attempt at a middleware standard, I TIHNK) and/or

Cisco/TECHNICOLOR as causes of the problems.

 

The low level core functionality of a PVR is much more difficult to do than the PVR management and UI software.

It has to do multiple things in real time without losing frames OR overwrite stuff etc.  So why would anyone change it ?

 

From both our experiences since last JULY, it appears ESPIAL has never designed any PVR software before.

DO WE KNOW OF ANY ?  Any evidence  of ESPIAL ever doing a PVR ?

 

Maybe some day. RogerS will tell us, or have itr written up as a case study @ RYERSON.

I CHALK THIS DISASTER UP TO INEXPERIENCE IN BOTH PVR SOFTWARE DESIGN AND MORE IMPORTANTLY COMPLETE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF HOW/WHY PEOPLE USE PVRs.

 

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,144

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016 I

@parkI am ok with you disagreeing.  I am just making theories out of what I have found.  The RDK is Comcasts attempt to develop a standard middle ware and it appears that a lot of developers and box companies are beginning to license it.

 

Certainly, Espial has put a lot of push in their media documents and videos that their licensed open source applications on the RDK stack, which is very restricted on what they are allowed to do, suggests that they have a lot invested in that standard, and it looks like in the report to shareholders where they learned that the tier one carrier had decided not to go with the full RDK solution, but was going to use a partial layer of their software on the existing box and the 4k box.

 

From what I could find, I see spec documents on how their package can work with existing PVR's, parental controls, settings, catch up TV, and PPV and Vod, all things that didn't seem to integrate very well and where a lot of the problems have occurred.  I could not find any applications to existing PVR's and boxes, it appears largely theoretical and was first introduced about 3 years ago, and now they are pushing fast beyond that to the full IPTV model.  Their model in their newest version 10 is IPTV with network PVR (i.e., cloud storage) named NPVR on their own media base servers and platforms.

 

So your guess is as good as mine - I don't have access to the spec docs, just announcements, so we are left to guess, but whatever happened between the many suppliers and standards, it resulted in a mess that appears to be very difficult to deal with and make a truely improved and efficient user experience.  Not even close at this point, although they keep trying to tell us that it is, I think anybody who reads what is on these boards, or tryies to use the boxes will conclude that it is a mess and very difficult to work with.

 

I can actually live with the mess for now - my box is reasonably stable - I do reboot it once a week - and although I hate all the clicks and hunting and pecking for information in the tiles, at least I know how to work my way around most of the box.

 

And your point on inexperience and definitely not understanding the PVR user experience.

 

So for me, I will wait and see, keep looking at alternatives, and depending upon what comes next, I may finally bite the bullet and move on, or maybe I will stay.  I can't predict the future, I can only deal with what we have right now, and although a pain in the fingers and brain, we at least have just about every workaround that is known taken care of in the wonderful work that @57 and @Gdkitty have created along with the support of so may others.

 

And with many of our theoretical disccusions, and research, we do know that the supplier side of things and implementation side was definitely not ready for prime time on a Rogers Cisco box and firmware, and clearly was no where near ready, no matter what happened.

 

Yes, it would definitely make a great Waterloo or Ryerson case study, and maybe over time the whole truth will come to light.

 

Take care and good night, Bruce  Happy family day to everyone in Ontario.

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 193

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016 I

I would agree that the development team was not ready for prime time for this initiative but it indicates that they are not ready for prime time in terms of UI design and development of any type of UI, PVR or otherwise until the understanding that it is a USER interface is realized. The only case study value this experience has is to show what can go wrong in the SDLC and that the later in the cycle one finds a mistake the more it costs to fix it

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 193

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Never seen anything like that. Other than usability issues my 9865HD box has been fine. There have been many posts about other boxes that have had issues and that sounds very much like hardware, namely underpowered cpu in the box.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 40

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

There are many acronyms and terms being discussed here. Just a refresher, here are some of those with company or term links. There are many who are newbies and technically less informed.

1. RDK. The RDK is a standardized software stack with localization plugins created to accelerate the deployment of next-gen video products and services by multichannel video providers (MVPDs)
Link >>> http://rdkcentral.com/about-rdk/

2. IPTV. (From Wikipedia) IPTV, Internet Protocol television, is a system through which television services are delivered using the Internet protocol suite over a packet-switched network such as a LAN or the Internet, instead of being delivered through traditional terrestrial, satellite signal, and cable television formats. Unlike downloaded media, IPTV offers the ability to stream the media in smaller batches, directly from the source. As a result, a client media player can begin playing the data (such as a movie) before the entire file has been transmitted. This is known as streaming media.

3. PPV. Pay-per-view (PPV) is a type of pay television service by which a subscriber of a television service provider can purchase events to view via private telecast.

4. VOD. Video on demand provided by your service provider (Rogers) usually paid for.

5. PVR. Personal Video Recorder is essentially the box provided by service provider (Rogers) that also has recording ability. Recording storage is on your box and is limited to the size of your PVR box (e.g. 500 GB's)

6. NPVR. Network Personal Video Recorder. A PVR box that has storage of recordings not on the box but in storage at the provider (Rogers) usually on a "cloud"

7. THE "CLOUD". Cloud computing, also known as 'on-demand computing', is a kind of Internet-based computing, where shared resources, data and information are provided to computers and other devices on-demand.
Cloud computing and storage solutions provide users and enterprises with various capabilities to store and process their data in third-party data centers.It relies on sharing of resources to achieve coherence and economies of scale, similar to a utility (like the electricity grid) over a network. At the foundation of cloud computing is the broader concept of converged infrastructure and shared services

8. ESPIAL The software company that Rogers is now using to take viewing into the next generation. The Espial TV Browser (based on WebKit and HTML5) accelerates the deployment of TV web browsing, interactive TV content and over-the-top web video to your customers. Espial TV Browser is an embedded web browser that is designed to support the challenging browsing requirements of Smart TV’s & set-top boxes. Consumers will enjoy a compelling internet web browsing experience with Espial TV Browser, while manufacturers and developers can simply and quickly build customized user interfaces that deliver exciting, interactive applications and compelling content to consumers. As well, it is easily ported and offers the latest and most advanced standards support including HTML5, HbbTV, BML, AcTVila and many others. It supports a range of end-user applications including web browsing, product menus, interactive advertising, email, chat, games and portal. The Espial TV Browser is a proven browsing platform and has been commercially deployed across a wide range of set-top boxes and Smart TVs.

LINK>>> http://www.espial.com/products/tv-browser/

9. LAYERS (of software) A multilayered software architecture is a software architecture that uses many layers for allocating the different responsibilities of a software product. As discussed in the forum examples Comcast and Espial and how they interface.

I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

We've been working through the new Navigatr upgrade to our Nextbox and have encountered a few issues.  Below are some observations or suggestions but others are issues and I wonder if anyone else is experiencing or has a suggestion:

 

1. Suggestion:  I record daily TV series so I like to know what day of the week the show was on, i.e. Mon, Tues, Wed...etc.  Please add the day of the week back into the recording description.  It makes it much easier to watch a specific episode.

 

2. Issue: If we have 2 shows recording at the same time and then try to watch a recorded show, it seems to cause some sort of error.  Even if we cancel one of the shows, the TV screen goes dark and we can't get to the other recording that is in progress.  

 

3. Issue:  The PVR indicates its recroding something even though we cancelled the recording.  We couldn't get back to live TV at all and had to reboot the unit to get it to work.

 

4. Suggestion:  From the guide it would be great to have the option not only to record a single program but the series while watching the show.  I often find a show I like and mid-way through decide to record the series.  It would be great to have the same functionality to record a series while actually watching the show.

 

5.  Observation: I don't need to see the images of my shows, this takes up too much real estate.  I much prefer the list view. I recognize that Rogers is trying to recreate the experience of some of the streaming services but I know what show's I've recorded so I don't need an image to remind me.  The streaming services show the 'cover image' just as with books, i.e., you see an intriguing image on the cover and you might be tempted to watch a show that you haven't watched before.  This isn't necessary with a PVR.

 

6. Issue:  The show images are too large and the bottom row is getting cut off. 

 

7. Observation:  I'd give the Navigatr upgrade a failing grade.  The changes aren't of any value to me, i.e. haven't made my viewing experience more pleasurable.  I would go back to the old version in a heart beat. My suspicious nature makes me wonder if this is a purposeful ploy to make me consider updgrading to the next version of Nextbox?  I'm certainly finding this new version very frustrating.

 

8.Issue:  There is a noticeable lag time between when I make any sort of selection on my remote and the Navigtr responds.  This wasn't an issue with the previous version.  This has lead to sometimes clicking too many times and moving into a screen that I didn't want.  I've almost erased a show accidentally this way.  We have to do a 1-2 count after each selection just to see if it is going to react.  Very annoying.

 

9. Question:  How do I do time shifting recording?  I searched for the show in the guide, selected it but then it didn't show me all of the alternate times that the show was playing.  I used this feature extensively to ensure that I was never recording 2 shows at the same time.  Can anyone tell me how to do this with the new guide?