UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 73

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@Gerim wrote:

That was in reference to the On Demand issue only.  That is currently my biggest issue, although I agree with all of the other issues and I know others have the same problem. I have also mentioned the phantom recordings and the "fluttering " I get on every playback but no specific response on those.


Good that you actually got some information. It's the first time I have seen that somebody actually got a tangible response. Not great news, but at least you know.

I wrote to the Ombudsman, and was passed to the Office of the President, just today.  So I am waiting to see what that response is.  I just want to know what is being done, and what can be expected.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,435

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@bert123 take a look at my post (msg # 760) on this page:





and at BS's post (msg # 821) on the following page:





Hopefully that will shed some light on the current situation and how Rogers ended up where it is now with Navigatr.


Here are links to Stockhouse news regarding Espial, which is the other partner in this whole affair:











And from the Globe and Mail's top picks for 2015.  Have a look at page 28 - Appendix 2.  It contains some interesting numbers such as an upfront payment of $10 /  subscriber and and an ongoing revenue rate of $1.50 / subscriber per year.  Reading thru the various Stockhouse posts, it looks as if Rogers and Espial had signed a contract in 2013, so, this has been in development for at least two years.  And, in summer 2015, out comes the alpha version.  




And from 2013, probably when this all started, Espial's announcement of a contract:




Last but not least, Cisco sells its set-top box division this year to Technicolor:










I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 50

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@bert123 wrote:



Not clear if Rogers or Cisco designed Navigatr - whoever it was really screwed up.  

The company that designed Navigatr is Espial. You can leave a review on their Facebook page telling them exactly what you think of this abomination.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 50

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@Gdkitty wrote:

You cant 😞
(its been a thing that many people have been asking for back... weither thats possible or not.. time will tell)


I have made a how to guide on how to get around the guide (since it can be quite confusing), if that helps at all.



Apparently, commenting is disabled on the page where your guide has been published @Gdkitty. So I just want to say that you are to be commended for how much work you put into producing your guide. It is obvious you have worked far harder in producing your guide than was ever put into Navigatr. When an unpaid volunteer puts Rogers to shame, there is something wrong in the state of Rogers! Rogers cannot even admit that there is anything wrong with Navigatr, let alone put in the kind of effort that you have done. Thank you!

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,121

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Thanks for the kind words


the mods have asked to keep it locked, just to keep it clean and free of things like complaints in it. To just have help into there. (Need to edit it as people can't add to it on their own)


if anyone does have anything that I missed, they would like added, etc, please feel free to reach out to me.  

I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Are there any plans to improve the horrible filtering in the recorded / scheduled recordings menu?

Why the heck would I want the same show not recorded as a series all listed separately!!!😤
And everytime I delete something I get sent back to the top of my list - really - it's not like the old way was great but it's like anything that was decent they decided to get rid of. I have to click on each recording to see a description. I'm wasting so much time now.

I hope someone is working on fixing this.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 50

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


If you go back a bit in this thread, you will see a post by @BS. He has produced an analysis which shows that when Navigatr was introduced last July, there were 38 issues reported. In the second release over the past couple of months, only 8 of those issues have been fixed. So if you are looking to see something fixed, the chances are not very high! 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

If one listens to the interviews posted earlier of various interviews, or PR information by the president of Espial, they have done considerable development in Europe and Africa - I am not sure they have done extensive customer research in Canada, and I get the gut feeling that they feel they know what consumers want because they have had great success accross the big pond.


For some of these countries, this is the first and only experience they have had with a complex set top box, with IPTV and many other features, that have not even come to us yet.


Plus, they had the opportunity of working and implementing closely with RDK, and the hardware stacks and OS stacks (as they call them, and the Espial version on top, which there are quite a number of iterations - this one that goes on legacy boxes and requires close discussion and coordination with the cable provider, the setbox developer (Cisco), their next layer of software (Videoscape, now Technicolour), understanding what customers do not and how or if they can transfer current functionality to this complete differently designed model of RDK rather than RTN. Note that they say they have little control of RDK as it is a open source software and they define how it can be used in order to keep standardization of their middle ware on any box in the world. And Espial bought out ANT which was one of the other layers in the old system.


And it appears, that due to market changes, company changes, and other unpredictable factors, such as end of product support and distribution, it basically got dumped on us and I suspect the company decided to just take the risk of not losing too many people, get the feedback retroactively rather than proactively, and then work through the unknowns of how to make it all work as they go along.  And some things, since Espial has licensed certain models of the use of the open source tools and API's, means they may be reluctant to change some things (like the Tile model), since this is kind of their trademark.


So we wait and see, but at least @Gdkitty with the input from a very large group of true testers, designers, and system analysts, has created a fabulous how to tricks and tips as the box currently sits as of 11/02/2016.


I guess there are few options for us, except,


Like Gdkitty myself and others, we try to understand it and pass on what we know to others so they don't have to suffer as much as we did (although we suffered, I think we all like a good challenge of problem solving, in particular those of us who are retired to prove that we still can do it, and can call Rogers on the marketing pitches that just don't hold up to testing and analysis).


So that is one options - keep providing feedback on what we find and how to work with it.

The next one is just as valid, complain and ask for the old one back, but it appears that is not going to happen, period.

Commiserate amongst each other, but be careful about going too off line, or off topic, and remember to keep it clean.

Express your emotions, they are valid, but respect the people who have to read it - keep it clearn.

Cut the cord totally and find alternatives, and then you have new options if these things happen again.

Or go to another company, either teir one, or teir two, knowing that there are pros and cons to leaving or staying.


Or also, you can escalate as far as you can take it to try to get your point to someone who has the power to influence things.


Remember to respectful and polite in your discussions as you move up - they are more likely to be sympathetic and listen, and maybe, just maybe, something surprising may happen - at least some form of compensation at the least.


For now, I just remain patient, keep communicating, although I apologize, I have been getting frustrated and angry and it has been  showing in my writing.  I ask my question, would I want people to talk to me that way, and lately the answer is no, but it is tough to edit unless you catch it quick, and it is not possible to delete it - although if you do get to edit and want to get rid of it totally - just type in sorry, didn't want this out there - moderators may leave it or remove it, or you can ask moderators to edit or remove something.


And the moderators catch me at times when I slip out of line (I am only human and have a servere disability too) and I always thank them via PM for keeping my posts clean.


I have said this a number of times in the last two weeks that I am going to stay away, but things like GDKitty's how to tips and tricks and I just had to comment, as well, as since I post often, and I must be contributing in a useful way for people, which is my number one goal in all my posts, I get kudos, or feedback, and I like to return the feedback to those people.


Good night, Bruce


I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@teragram And as @roxandtreez, who created the original list has said, it was done within a few days of the original release which was stopped around the same time, there are many others on the old version that were brought up, as well as new ones on the 4 versions that have followed (for people who are confused by that - there was a build around December 15, that came out, then was stopped shortly afterwards, then another build in January, that again was paused, then another build, and now a recent build and recompiling of all modules (so that is where we get four what I still call beta builds, as we continue to work on a test box, which many things to be resolved.


It took five months to do the first 8, a couple of weeks to handle the power off feature, not sure what the last one just did, but some issues were reported after it came out, so I am hoping since they have most of the information in their hands now, they can sit down, decide how to prioritize the bug fixes and decide on how to deal with usability functions, or decide that is how it will stay is a possibility, but I hope that it is taking time because they are designing and testing actively with hopefully customer feeedback along the way and that they take their time to get it as right as they can.  I don't expect perfection or for everyone to be pleased - that is not usually possible, but at least take on some of the major stuff (if it is even possible on the new platforms, and if not, just let us know, then we can make our educated deicsions on what we are willing to live with, or do we move on) - this is the respect as a customer that I do seriously expect, and no matter how polite and friendly and supportive your reps may be in trying to help us, when you blow it big on the use of the product, none of that good customer support and service means nothing. If a customer feels that they got junk and they are not being listened to and communicated to openly, with transparency, and honesty and fully, customers become frustrated and respond as best as they can in order to move on and enjoy life and their viewing experience of their payed for content.  In my mind it is not too much to ask for.


And another hope that it may be moving faster is that Espial has been posting for positions in Toronto and Ottawa (which means our stuff in general) for developers, designers, testers, engineers, and documentors - they will need a bit of a learning curve, but they are sure going to have to hit the ground running, and hopefully they take all the feedback and suggestions very seriously in order to move faster and get the product as close as possible to a product most of us can live with.


I can dream still.  Cyncism and anger, and frustration is not good for me, and I am sure it is not necessarily pleasant for others to experience, when they just want to move forward.


Take care everyone, and for the new users - I hope it is soon that we will see dramatic change.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 46

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

I couldn't agree more. 


I sent an email to Rogers this evening telling them why I have been actively cancelling my services and sited having my perfectly on topic, and 'clean' responses either edited, or deleted completely from this list as one of the reasons, along with the deafening silence from anyone at Rogers. This is of course on top of the wonderful experience we've all enjoyed since Navigatr entered our lives.


And to think I have been foolish enough to actually pay Rogers for this level of mistreatment. 


Thank you Rogers. It was a wonderful 25+ years while it lasted. I will keep the cars, the house and the cat as part of our divorce settlement.