UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

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BS
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@Steelheader I think you are dead on with your view here.

 

Let's go back in time a bit - Scientific Atlantic was the cable box systems we have known for decades - Motorola was the other, there were very few players, and they were only basic package distribution control, while live tv, you could get off your tv, or through a cable box.

 

Scientific american had SARA and was sold to Cisco who then took Sara to RTN.

 

RDK is a not so new feature for sitting as a middleware to integrate the application level to the box functions. But Espial's model sits on top of RDK, that sits on top of the various types of hardware and their related operating software to make the box do the basic job of input/output. And Cisco had not implemented RDK as of yet, so you can see there is a lot of change going on with the box and various stacks (that is a networking and programming/memory use term) - often called layers too. They were still dealing with RTN which had enough of its own issues too.

 

In the video he talks about the importance of the upfront coordination work between the cable provider, the user desires, the company box, putting in RDK, and designing Espial's model (it is not always called Navigtr), that is also restricted within licenced models of how they believe they will go forward, while using a large amount of open source hardware.

 

I see that the following fell apart in this implementation - first, the users have really not been involved - you listen to the language that Espial CEO uses, it sounds much like the words that Rogers uses - improving the experience, bringing new experiences, etc - so I get the feeling it was largely driven by Espial - then the next thing that happens is the setbox in place for Rogers (Cisco) takes a completely new direction, leaving Rogers with what is now a legacy product that is about to go out of support and already is out of production.

 

So, even though they have a new box from Cisco (I don't know the build it is on), none of us know what will happen once Cisco completely pulls out and technicolour takes over, or even if there may be some more shake ups along the way in the near future.

 

So the most important key for implementation which was communication and design involving all players was falling apart almost from the get go, although when you look at some of the historical documents around end of life, either a new Cisco box was coming out anyway (not the one we currently use), or as happened, Cisco pulled out of that side of things.  They are taking on the head end and media server side and routing side of the business which is really their strength in the first place.  They never were in the business of set top boxes historically, they tried it, and decided it wasn't their niche, so Rogers, which by extension means us were caught in the middle of an implementation and purchase for development by Espial that unfortunately was based upon Cisco stability and that is not in place.

 

I suspect the drive to 4K, the drive to IPTV, while still keeping legacy boxes in place as long as possible, drove them to just dump it out as is in the state it was in July, one year before Cisco was going to be dropping support for the current versions of Cisco software layers that we are currently still on, and probably the assumptions was that Espial would be implementing RDK with their software model, with the capability for 4k and IPTV and a whole lot of bells and whistles that some people expect now, not just the ability to watch TV - a grand vision, but Cisco put a big wrench in the works.

 

That is my theory of what happened, but I doubt we will ever know.  It would be a great case study for university professors to work with students to look at all that is known to the outside viewer based upon information available, to talk about what you don't want to happen.

 

Bruce

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

 Oops posted the same one twice - my connection dropped again - actually it is my router it has a parental control that shuts me out after an hour. To keep me calm and away from it.

 

Bruce

DrMike
I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 265

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


@Steelheader wrote:

As BS and others mentioned previously, Rogers is looking way forward with the Espial systems and Navigatr.

As I mentioned previously, the younger generations have left TV long ago and gone to cell phones and tablets and streaming. Granted Rogers still has their business in this way. Where the new systems probably come in is in the new formats to attract these customers. And that is 4K. Best Buy and many other retailers and manufacturers are putting there $$ in 4K. And 4K is not on tablets and cell phones. Buying big like 70" screen is where the WOW is.

This is what Rogers is working in a frenzy to achieve and the new formats like Navigatr and Espial probably have capabilities far beyond what we are dealing with including web interface and RDK. Here is their CEO talking about it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3C4D4SIJ3Wg

Jump in experts and BS if I am incorrect here 

 


You have just struck HUGE fear in my heart. Can you imagine the fiasco we are about to live through once the complexity goes up?  If this is what they are basing their 'interface of the future' on, we are all doomed.....  

YtanyaY
I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 196

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016 [ New ]

Dear Rogers / The Rogers powers-to-be / Roger’s decision-makers / Superiors at Rogers / etc. (AKA The Roger’s elite)

 

I think this should remain as a separate thread with the aforementioned subject. (Or any title similar IMO)

 

If this is kept for ideas ONLY, maybe the Rogers elite (mentioned after the "Dear" (above)) can use all their <your> time analysing the comments that will <hopefully> appear ...

 

This would further <HOPEFULLY> allow our *superiors* to create solutions instead of having to plod through post after post after post and sometimes coming across (a) shocking insult(s)!!

 

I assume that you (the Rogers elite) being part of such a fine customer / client-oriented company will agree with the idea / suggestion thread?

It could very well illustrate Team effort!

 

Your job should become easier!

And maybe you will find compliment after compliment after compliment in the distant / far-off future!

 

Thank you

 

NB: I truly apologize to anyone who already suggested this but I cannot find ANYTHING I am looking for in the merged threads.

And if I offend anyone I am sorry!

BaseballMama
I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

Extremely frustrated.  We are a 2 PVR family and Navigatr rolled out last week.  The older PVR is slow, isn't grouping my kids shows, and shows ridiculous tiles (for which every Max and Ruby or Paw Patrol or whatever else) of identical pictures instead of a description of the show.  Ever have a child want that ONE specific episode, of the 30 you have recorded?  I have.  Repeatedly.   Upgrade has also slowed the box down considerably.

 

Then the NextBox 3.0.  It is the "adult" box.  Only our shows.  Only used by adults.  It has consistently lagged and been slow to respond since the update.  The Guide feature is essentially useless because it takes a good 30 seconds before any button press is recognized.  

 

Then today comes.  I decide to check the weather forecast.  Turn the TV and box on.  Box says it is downloading.  And then installing.  And then it just freezes there.  After an hour I reboot becuase it has sat at a black screen and the power button is not responding.  After turning back on, I have all the "features".  But nothing is on any channel... no picture or sound.  But the lagging guide is back.  I reboot again.  Again.  I debate calling Rogers but have to pick the kids up in an hour and I know that I will be on the phone longer than that.  As I leave the house, I notice it is back saying "downoading".  Checked periodically the next couple hours and still the full set of features with no picture or sound.  Spouse checks the tv after dinner, gets another "downloading".  And then there is a picture and sound.  But the Guide is still useless.  Slow, lagging.

 

Spouse reboots a few more times before calling Rogers.  And it stops lagging.  

 

So... I HATE Navigatr still, but at least it is sort of fucntioning.  I see most of the shows I record are now showing up in my list (where before they were not showing and the Guide was showing "no information" for anything beyond a few hours away from the time of accessing it).  I guess I am going to have to tell it again to record the shows becuase it isn't picking up the favourites (Walking Dead for one).  

 

I honestly wish we were given the option whether we wanted to upgrade to this newer programming.  I can only imagine the frustration of today if I had a sick child a home from school who was only up for laying on the couch watching tv.  

 

Hoping that MUCH more testing is done by real users before any further rollouts.

molly222
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 99

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

To: Baseball Mama...I feel your pain.  The first 10-14 days were the worst...constant downloads and wierd happenings and time spent deleting and re-sorting thru the world of tiles!   I don't think Rogers understands how time consuming it is to have to "deal with" this animal, nor the constant fear of what is next?

 

To:  Rocksandtrees:  Yes, I still am getting the occassional runaway recording that never ends until you pull the plug.  I also still get the occasional show that does not record and I can't set it to record because it says "duplicate recording"...both bugs left over and not fixed.

 

I would like to emphasive the importance of showing an actual CHANNEL NUMBER on scheduled/upcoming recordings.  The signal on my street is not the best...therefore many of the lower channels (global, CITY) I have to watch on the 500 channels because the picture freezes and pizelates on the lower ones.  There are others however that the reverse is true...i.e. can't watch on the higher one.  A very nice Rogers repairman who has been at my house many times due to signal problems, said that they "batch" channels together...so even though you think it's the same channel...because of the "batching" of channels, you can have this happen and he sees it often in areas where the Rogers lines are old and need replacing.  So for people like myself and my neighbours, until they actually put in new lines (been waiting over 5 years)...we need to watch and record on specific CHANNEL NUMBERS...this was a huge issue about a year ago when Rogers automatically would change the series recordings to the higher HD numbers...a lot of us screamed pretty loudly and they stopped it.  Of course this wouldn't be a problem if everyone had a REALLY GOOD SIGNAL...which I think is also a contributing factor to some of our Navigatr booting problems.  I am hoping that a ROGERS MODERATOR can pass this problem along...WE NEED TO SEE THE CHANNEL NUMBER BECAUSE SOME OF US HAVE TO LIVE WITH A WEAKER SIGNAL UNTIL YOU FIX THAT TOO!

 

p.s.  sorry for yelling...I feel better now Smiley Very Happy

Spoiler
 
teragram
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 50

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


@Steelheader wrote:
Here is the Espial video on their TV browser. You can see how it syncs with SMART TVs and the web.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vtE3gJtulkY

I could not help but have a look at this propaganda video and and could not help but notice that commenting has been disabled! I wonder why.Smiley LOL

Gdkitty
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,333

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


@molly222 wrote:

To: Baseball Mama...I feel your pain.  The first 10-14 days were the worst...constant downloads and wierd happenings and time spent deleting and re-sorting thru the world of tiles!   I don't think Rogers understands how time consuming it is to have to "deal with" this animal, nor the constant fear of what is next?

 

To:  Rocksandtrees:  Yes, I still am getting the occassional runaway recording that never ends until you pull the plug.  I also still get the occasional show that does not record and I can't set it to record because it says "duplicate recording"...both bugs left over and not fixed.

 

I would like to emphasive the importance of showing an actual CHANNEL NUMBER on scheduled/upcoming recordings.  The signal on my street is not the best...therefore many of the lower channels (global, CITY) I have to watch on the 500 channels because the picture freezes and pizelates on the lower ones.  There are others however that the reverse is true...i.e. can't watch on the higher one.  A very nice Rogers repairman who has been at my house many times due to signal problems, said that they "batch" channels together...so even though you think it's the same channel...because of the "batching" of channels, you can have this happen and he sees it often in areas where the Rogers lines are old and need replacing.  So for people like myself and my neighbours, until they actually put in new lines (been waiting over 5 years)...we need to watch and record on specific CHANNEL NUMBERS...this was a huge issue about a year ago when Rogers automatically would change the series recordings to the higher HD numbers...a lot of us screamed pretty loudly and they stopped it.  Of course this wouldn't be a problem if everyone had a REALLY GOOD SIGNAL...which I think is also a contributing factor to some of our Navigatr booting problems.  I am hoping that a ROGERS MODERATOR can pass this problem along...WE NEED TO SEE THE CHANNEL NUMBER BECAUSE SOME OF US HAVE TO LIVE WITH A WEAKER SIGNAL UNTIL YOU FIX THAT TOO!

 

p.s.  sorry for yelling...I feel better now Smiley Very Happy

Spoiler
 

If your getting weak signals.. its nothing rogers can do from the BACK end. 😞

You would need to get a tech out to fix it.... and if its beyond the house level (street, etc) the tech would then need to escalate to maintenance.

 



mfait
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 194

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016


@headhoncho wrote:

last night my Navigatr'd NB3 had the recording light on before I went to bed - I was too tired to go through each tile to see what was recording (I didn't think anything should have been) so I left it (the old list function would have told me what I wanted to know with 1 click) and the light was still on this morning.  So I rebooted and I see that the PVR usage went up by around 6% but obviously nothing recorded all night long

 

certainly another bug - curious that the usage increased but nothing was recorded


Happened to me last week.  You won't find any new shows recorded.  What you will most likely find is that one if the shows you were recording continued to record.

 

Mine had recorded about 26 hours of the Big Bank Theory.  We tried to watch the show but when it got about 10 min into the show it kicked us out of the show.  Tried to watch again, FF to part we were at, but got kicked out again.  So we were not able to see what it recorded for the rest of the 26 hours.

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: UPDATED NextBox Navigatr - December 2015/January 2016

@mfait Describes exactly our experience - off to Internet to find it on line or on demand.

 

Bruce