TCM HD aspect ratio problem

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem

Thanks RogersHassam,

 

I m going to wait and see what the tech coming to my home tomorrow to check our PVR, says about the TCM problem.

 

I think the TV make does have something to do with the problem. I looked at TCM HD on a neighbour's Samsung and that TV seems to automatically switch to the proper 16-9 display, though it did seem to still be in SD. As well, the TV at the Rogers Champlain Mall outlet, which had the aspect ratio problem, was also a Sony TV (like mine).

 

I really think the reason you haven't had calls on this problem is because of the much older age group who tend to be TCM viewers. As well, those with TV's that automatically correct the display problem, would not realize it was in SD rather than HD. Especially since, until recently, almost all content on TCM HD were very old movies being broadcast in SD.

 

I think the important point to keep in mind, as emphasized by BFlow, was that until about a year ago TCM HD (563) was fine and if a movie was broadcast in HD, it showed on my SONY as HD.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 40

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem



I think the TV make does have something to do with the problem. I looked at TCM HD on a neighbour's Samsung and that TV seems to automatically switch to the proper 16-9 display, though it did seem to still be in SD. As well, the TV at the Rogers Champlain Mall outlet, which had the aspect ratio problem, was also a Sony TV (like mine).

 

(...)

 

As well, those with TV's that automatically correct the display problem, would not realize it was in SD rather than HD. Especially since, until recently, almost all content on TCM HD were very old movies being broadcast in SD.


 

While a given make/model of TV may do weird things which appear to correct the issue (or create others) this is NOT a display device related issue.

 

With the Motorola's low level output setting on "Native" (this is not in the usual AV menu but I wont go into the details here), and a display device capable of raw unaltered signal presentation, we get the honest truth:   It becomes painfully obvious the problem is a mis-flagging of the channel somewhere further up the chain.  I'll try and distill this down to simple terms.

 

The Motorola is being told that the channel is 4:3 when it is in fact 16:9 (regardless of the aspect of the movie itself).  TCM delivers a 16:9 raster which includes side black bars if necessary.   Because the Motorola is being given the wrong metadata, it treats the channel as if it were 4:3 when it is not.  This is why IF the av setting is "1080i 4:3 stretch" it appears there is nothing wrong...until you tune in a real 4:3 channel and find it incorrectly stretched.  If you change the av setting to "1080i preserve 4:3", the Motorola adds side bars and the true 4:3 channel displays correctly.... but now our poor TCM HD does not.  In this setting the Motorola treats it as 4:3:  If the movie is scope, it gets sidebars which don’t belong (looks horizontally squished).  If an Academy aspect, it gets DOUBLE the side bars, those added by the Motorola AND those already provided by TCM within the 16:9 raster (also looks horizontally squished).

 

I'm starting to feel like an (unpaid) video technology consultant here (which I have the credentials for by the way).  I've provided more than enough concise and competently presented data here for someone at Rogers to carry the ball up field and get this corrected.

 

Given how long this issue has been in place though....I remain sceptical.

 

_________

 

postscript: As to why complaints havent been pouring in, and this is purely anecdotal on my part, I submit that it is a combination of A) low viewship of TCM HD, B) general viewer ignorance about aspect ratios (sorry, but its true), and C) very few people regularly watch true 4:3 channels these days (ie, many TCM HD viewers likely have thier Motorola's av setting incorrectly set to "1080i 4:3 stretch".  If they never surf to a true 4:3 channel, they'd never see anything wrong).

 

post-postscript:  If there are any techies creeping who are interested in the nitty gritty.... using the low level "Naitive" output settings, all channels are output at their naitive resolution and scan rate (of course) which is a good thing because as a videophile I do not want the Motorola's cheap scaller mucking with the signal. But the Motorola still performs 4:3 compensation (side bar addition) on 1080i material flagged as 4:3.  This is how I first encountred the issue a year ago.  Changing the AV setting in the redily accesible user menu kills the Naitive output setting, but in this case has been usefull in documenting/proving what the fault actually is.

 

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem

Well, now we are three !

 

I just spoke with a fellow at the Rogers Dispatch centre here in Moncton. He was calling to confirm my PVR service call for tomorrow. I mentioned that I would also like the fellow to look at the TCM problem and he then checked his own TV and low and behold he was having the exact same aspect ratio problem and it was also showing the display as 480i SD. He was using a Toshiba HD TV. So, I'm not sure what the story was with the person at the Moncton Call centre saying everything was fine with TCM, but it's nice to now have an actual Rogers employee recognizing this as a legitimate issue.

 

 

 

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Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
Posts: 571

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem

Hello @whatnext and @BFlow,

 

Can you please provide the model of your digital boxes that this issue is happening on and also the model of your televisions? Can you also please reply back to my PM that I sent yesterday via @CommunityHelps? I sent you a Safesend link yesterday requesting your account information in order for us to investigate this issue further and track it appropriately. Let me know if the Safesend link I provided via PM is still active. If not, I'll create a new token and send you a new link. 

 

Thanks 🙂

RogersHassam  

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 40

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem


@whatnext wrote:
I mentioned that I would also like the fellow to look at the TCM problem and he then checked his own TV and low and behold he was having the exact same aspect ratio problem and it was also showing the display as 480i SD

 


The 480i issue is arrived at via a different setting, but the root cause is the same.   If TCM HD is being output at 480i then you have the user av setting on "1080i Preserve 4:3 480i" (which may well be your choice of setting for sake of SD channels).

 

This doesnt change anything I have said:  TCM HD is being incorrectly flagged as 4:3 and thus any and all settings related to 4:3 are manifest on the channel when they should not be.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem

I just made the change suggested by BFlow (I hadn't used those settings before) and TCM HD is now fine. I'll just use the aspect button when I need to watch SD channels. It appears this change has for some strange reason also rectifed my sound problem.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 40

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem


@whatnext wrote:

I just made the change suggested by BFlow (I hadn't used those settings before) and TCM HD is now fine. I'll just use the aspect button when I need to watch SD channels.


I'm glad the "workaround" will let you enjoy some TCM, but I personally do not consider this issue closed in any way, shape, or fashion.  If the stereo audio of a channel were reverse, we could workaround that too by mis-wiring an analogue connection, but that wouldn’t be acceptable and neither is this.



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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 40

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem


@RogersHassam wrote:

Hello @whatnext and @BFlow,

 

Can you please provide the model of your digital boxes that this issue is happening on and also the model of your televisions? (...) I sent you a Safesend link yesterday requesting your account information in order for us to investigate this issue further and track it appropriately.


 

Hassam,

 

I really do appreciate the attention you are trying to give this, but I am reticent to open a ticket as that implies there is something wrong at my end. There simply isn’t.   The make/model of my (several) display devices is irrelevant.  I did in fact reach out to support almost a year ago and wasted a lot of both my and their time (after which I started this thread). I honestly don’t blame them as I realise they have a script and troubleshooting flowchart they have to follow, one which unfortunately is built on the premise that the customer or their non-Rogers equipment must be ruled out before any other possibility is considered.

 

Among other things I am in fact a professional Audio/Video Consultant and Technical Writer. I have, now repeatedly, in this thread given you or anyone else at Rogers more than enough data and information to action this at your end. If you can’t or won’t carry this forward I understand it is not actually your responsibility as a community mod, but it would bode very well for Rogers if you took the initiative anyway and followed through as you certainly have access to people and departments which we mere mortals dont.

________________________________

 

Postscript: A year ago I reached out to TCM US (they don’t have an actual Canadian contact) and at that time was brushed off with the notion that it’s the cable provider’s problem, not theirs. I recently reached out to them again asking if they could address it from their side as Rogers may be more inclined to listen to them as oppose to a customer but was not given the courtesy of a response, not even a dismissive one.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem

Hi BFlow,

 

That was certainly a very thoughtful and well expressed message. I agree with all your comments. The tech who fixed my PVR problem today said this all started after a change made by Rogers relating to HD channels. Even though TCM is now OK, I will still have to use the aspect button every time I access SD channels, which is a pain. And, as you have said repeatedly, this all started a year ago, before which everything was fine. As well, he said he has encountered many customers here in Moncton who have this aspect ratio problem.

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Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
Posts: 571

Re: TCM HD aspect ratio problem

Hello @BFlow and @whatnext,

 

I have escalated the issue and have the appropriate contacts involved. I am trying to help with this issue and in order to proceed further, I kindly request your cooperation in providing the information they have requested:

 

  • What type of set top box are you using? Pease provide the model of all your boxes if you have more than one and which one this is happening on. Is it happening on all boxes? 
  • Where are you located in Atlantic Canada.
  • A screenshot of what you are seeing.

 

Thank you, 

RogersHassam