Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

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I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

@RogersHassam

 

This may be a stupid question, but is it possible that the CCI flag is being set to "copy never" rather than "copy once"?

 

Copy never is defined as:

 

0x03 - Copy Never - the content can be recorded and viewed for 90 minutes after transmission, and is not transferable.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 42

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

What does "copy once" imply? If Rogers is restricting the ability to record programs without making it clear that they are doing so, that is a very serious issue, likely with legal implications. They make it clear that ppv is limited, but these are not ppv channels we are talking about - they are premium, yes, but not ppv.
I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

@malcolmd

 

I'm not saying that is the case, but just wanted to rule it out as a possibility. If it were happening, I think there would probably be more people complaining.

 

CCI is Copy Control Information and is used by the broadcaster to control how the broadcast is used.  Back when I had an 8300HD with a firewire port, I used to copy off recordings that I wanted to back up.  I found that some recordings were flagged as "copy once", which meant that the PVR could make a recording, but I was not allowed to make a backup.  Only "copy freely" allowed me to make a backup.

 

Here are the details on CCI from Wikipedia:

 

The following flags exist:

  • 0x00 - Copy freely - Content is not copy protected.
  • 0x01 - Copy No More - A copy of the content has already occurred and no more copies are permitted.
  • 0x02 - Copy Once - A recording can be made, but that is it.
  • 0x03 - Copy Never - the content can be recorded and viewed for 90 minutes after transmission, and is not transferable.
  • 0x04 - Content is Copy Once for digital output, but would have Macrovision 7 Day Unlimited restriction applied on the analog outputs. This affects content viewed either on an HDTV with component cabling or on a standard definition TV. It also affects content saved to VCR or DVD when the recorder is connected to an analog output on the DVR.
  • 0x07 - Content is Copy Never for digital content (deleted after 90 minutes) and Macrovision 7 day/24 hour for content recorded from analog channels. Content cannot be transferred via TiVoToGo transfers or MRV, and cannot be saved to VCR or DVD.
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 45

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

I have had recordings disappear for the last several weeks.  Also, scheduled recordings do NOT record even if the  red dot is showing that they are or they are in the scheduled box.

Checking to be sure that our programs are scheduled to record before we go out is becoming absurd!!  How crazy has this become? Then you get home to find that nothing has recorded.

Rebooting is of no help.

Why would anyone call techinical support - what are they supposed to do - the techs come out and all they can say is change the box and lose all recordings when they know full well that that is not the answer?

Fed up to the max with this absolute junk that I AM PAYING FOR!!!!

Retired Moderator RogersHassam
Retired Moderator
Posts: 571

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

HI @roxandtreez,

 

To be honest I do not have information regarding your question. I'll see if there is anything I can find.

 

Thanks, 

RogersHassam 

I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

@RogersHassam, @malcolmd

 

I did some more digging and figured out how to rule out the CCI as an issue.  It requires bringing up the diagnostics on the Nextbox, which is not really a big deal but requires certain button presses on the remote.  You need to do this while your problem shows are recording.

 

Hold down the Exit button on the remote until the blue power light on the Nextbox flashes (around 2 seconds or so).  Release the Exit button and quickly press down arrow, down arrow, 2 and this should bring up the diagnostics.  Use the down arrow to move the cursor down to +Services and press Select.

 

Use the down arrow to move the cursor to Copy Protection.  Under CCI events, you will see 8 rows of information, one for each tuner on the Nextbox 3.  You want to look at the column EMI.  For my test I had 4 tuners active and under EMI is says "once", "freely", "freely", "freely".  These correspond to the descriptions I posted earlier from Wikipedia.  "once" means you can make a recording, but you cannot copy that recording off to another device.

 

I assume your shows should appear as "once", but if you see something else, it might need further investigation.

 

Hitting Exit will then take you out of diagnostics and back to normal operation.

Retired Moderator RogersHassam
Retired Moderator
Posts: 571

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

Hi @roxandtreez,

 

Thanks for that info. From what I understand, The correct path should be "once", "freely", "freely", "freely"?

 

Again, are you suggesting this as a test for some of those shows that don't record? 

 

RogersHassam 

I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

@RogersHassam

 

From what I understand , the whole CCI function was set up by the US Federal Communications Commission to enforce copy protection on broadcast signals.  The CCI signal is inserted by the broadcaster and since the problem is with NFL games, also a US franchise, I was wondering what CCI code the NFL is inserting in their signal.

 

What I am looking for is a CCI code of "never" on the tuner that is recording the NFL game, which puts additional restrictions on recording.

 

It is kind of a long shot, but since the problem is only with recording the NFL and not other channels, I can't think of anything else that would cause recordings to start, but not be saved unless it is a really weird signal problem

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 34

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

Only with recording NFL....

 

Read back thru this thread. This was happening to NHL games on NHL Centre Ice starting in February. The problem never went away. I watched it happen live as a game that was being recorded ended and the recording immediately disappeared.

 

Your guess on the CCI signal very well may be correct. Something occurs at the end of the broadcast that terminates the recording. The recording doesn't disappear at the end of the recording window, it's the end of the game/signal. I believe the same thing was happening on all of the PPV channels, i.e. - Basketball.

 

Here's the sad thing: This has been going on since February. Rogers knew about it. The first tech I spoke to actually was very up front that they knew. He claimed a patch would be pushed out to my box to fix it. Later calls with technical support claimed otherwise. They started to feign ignorance of the issue.

 

Rogers ended up refunding me half of my NHL Centre Ice package because it rendered the service useless. A live-only feed is not what I paid for.

 

Rogers knew about this. Rogers know about this. Rogers has done nothing over the past 6 months to rectify the situation.

 

1 week from the start of the NHL season and Rogers DVRs won't be able to record NHL games from NHL Centre Ice. So I will not be paying for NHL Centre Ice.

 

Nice stewardship of the NHL, Rogers.

 

btw - I would have posted this last night but the login page to this forum wasn't working. More technical brilliance.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 42

Re: Recordings dissapeared Nextbox 3.0

@trentbaur @RogersHassan - I tried an experiment - set a soccer game to record on a Sportsnet World Plus channel according to the schedule window then, 10 mins later, hit play and watched through to the end. At the end the recording was still there but it had terminated 7 mins before the end of the recording window. Clearly something happens when the feed terminates. I think the recording would have disappeared had I not been watching via "tape delay". That's what normally happens.

My theory is that there is a software or hardware error that causes the recording to be deleted if there is a loss of signal such as feed being terminated. @RogersHassan, it is not just NFL games. I gey this happening with UEFA soccer gsmes on Sportsnet World Plus channels.

If there is indeed a code in the signal to prevent recordings being kept then Rogers needs to stop fraudulently charging for something they can't deliver, but I still go with my theory.