NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

@yyz64
Just to add, that is the first time in several months that I had to manually re-boot the box.
My box is owned not rented and for the most part works well enough for my needs.

Everyone has different needs and expectations so if speed is important to you @57's suggestion might be worth a try.

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Sure I could manually reboot a box if I want. Sure they could also add it as a feature where I could say Reboot nightly at maintenance?  Y   N

Once you start accepting bad software where does it end?They know they screwed the pooch on the Nextbox2  PVR's shouldn'tbe my problem to work around

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

@yyz64  I have no disagreements with all the people including yourself who just got the software interface "dumped" on them in the last couple of months.

 

Many of those responding to you at the moment like @57, @jays77, myself and others have been living with this since July 2015.

 

There are some definitives that can be said.  Was the software design and implementation for below the Nextbox 3 a disaster - yes from day one.

 

Has there been huge numbers of people who like some things, but absolutely detested things from day one, and put up with poor reengineering of the software to attempt to respond to the major concerns (34 listed - you can see them in the pegged notes in the TV section at the top) - the first time they fixed 4, they were forced to deal with poor cc implementation by CRTC and concerns around AODA for people who are print or visually disabled, a font size that was impossible to read, the list goes on and on.  A failed attempt to implement power saving that they took out as it kept crashing the box.

 

And finally, even on Nextbox 3 (can't speak for 4 - it is not an original Cisco box or the original implementation it is run by Technicolor who bought out Cisco setbox development and customers, and the poor Espial implementation that was going to be the foundation of IPTV was dumped and we got left with an inside modified and Cisco/Technicolor supported and modified firmware and guide software and interface with the PVR functions, which were also a disaster at times).

 

So yes, it is deplorable what we all go, and now you have got - are they going to give you the old one back - if history is consistent on this one - no, they can't go back for whatever reasons.

 

Everything you have said and your feelings have all been said thousands of times over in three major threads, and many related ones.

 

So, you like the rest of us are in a position of learn to live with it and all it's workarounds and insanities, reboots when necessary, and a box that won't function if there is any drop in signal strength, on all the original Nextbox 2's and 3's.  That is why reboot, prevent the download at 2-3 am strategies, and check signal strength.

 

Using the Remote Control (NextBox 3!!!)
---------------------------------------
1 Press and hold the EXIT key for about two seconds until the POWER LED on the front panel of the set-top blinks.
2 In a rapid succession, press the DOWN button twice, then press the number 2.
The diagnostic screens appear on the screen.
3 To navigate to the next diagnostic screen, press the RIGHT ARROW button on the remote control.
To navigate to the previous screen, press the LEFT ARROW button on the remote control.
4 To change menu categories, press the DOWN ARROW button (next) or the UP ARROW button (previous) on the remote control.
5 To return to the previous menu, press the BACK/LAST button on the remote control.
6 Press the Exit key to exit.

 

There are also posted tips on how to work best with the box and the many workarounds, plus any feature that you can't figure out, someone can answer.

 

But in response to 

"

Sure I could manually reboot a box if I want. Sure they could also add it as a feature where I could say Reboot nightly at maintenance?  Y   N

Once you start accepting bad software where does it end?They know they screwed the pooch on the Nextbox2  PVR's shouldn'tbe my problem to work around"

 

There has never been a workaround provided in over 2 years, so if it was an easy one, either they chose not too, but we have watched many a firmware update come down over that two years, they did respond to the majority of the 34 original concerns, and like others, I just rebooted my box for the first time a week ago (maybe something going on) in probably at least 6 months, and I use the recording or watching a recording routine to delay the reboots to a convenient time - I am a night hawk.

 

So, the new poor souls like yourself who just got the "pleasure" of getting this software change on what were reliable boxes, have joined the rest of us poor souls, and as with us, the choice is move to another provider, consider alternatives to cable like OTT, or OTA (Internet or Antenna options), wait for the Comcast implementation, which remains unknown how it will work on the Rogers infrastructure, which they are working furiously on (see the Hitron beta test threads - it is all part of the same picture as IPTV along with Gigabit),

 

or I hate to say this one - we were told this in the early days "we had to learn to live with it", which for me, I did.

 

Hearing that all of you are going through it too is like a return of a bad nightmare, one I had set aside and moved on, but I don't get angry anymore, just live with it.

 

The rants are legitimate, but the suggestions that others are giving of how to deal with your journey into the world of Navigatr are the best solutions we are aware of, and as you may notice, little time is spent with the discussion of how bad it is.

 

I am just acknowledging that you are going through what we went through for over 18 months before we saw a certain level of stability, they then tried to move to IPTV on the model and it failed to function on the live network after being successful internally.

 

We have been told that when IPTV comes we have a choice of staying with the current boxes we have on broadband cable model when IPTV comes out.

 

Not an easy pill to swallow for sure - the cable implementation of new models of software, hardware, IPTV has struggled from day one.

 

I will give acknowledgement that they were backed into a corner in that Cisco pulled out, Espial did a great sales job on what they could accomplished and it failed miserably on rollout, and as to why they wrote over the SARA implementations recently, can only guess - probably support or licensing, and they have acknowledged having to support to many different models at the same time.

 

So I suspect nothing I have said here lessons the pain of this whole thing, it didn't me in the beginning either, and I still have a very sour taste in my mouth when ever I hear Navigatr or say it.  B ut at least they don't advertise the thing anymore.

 

Bruce

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

First the new software messed up all my scheduled recordings. Then, as everyone else reports, it proved to be ridiculously user-hostile--slow, clumsy, counter-intuitive, unresponsive. I have not been able to watch the last two Game of Thrones eps I recorded--because it won't scroll.  Yesterday, the box stopped working altogether. I've started looking into getting Bell Fibe. I hate Bell, but not as much as I hate Rogers right now. Seriously, how'd they THINK this was going to play out?

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

.Bruce,

You don't have to defend them or propose workarounds.I know they exist and I to have lived with it on a Nextbox 2 for years. This is not new to me but in the last couple of weeks the 8642 may as well be a paper weight instead of a PVR.It does work as a digital box but that's it.Proof is the Nextbox 3  for me I'm quite happy with.It works.I have the odd problem but when something runs 24/7/365 it is going to get glitches.That is what an idle time reset can do  it can cure some of these little things.

But when you almost brick  a different model box with software it really can't run then they are responsible.Excuses are just that.If I did that to my customers I know how many I would have left. It amazes me that people on here think Rogers has people writing the software.They don't, it's farmed out.And they probably have to pay to get changes/updates done.I've seen that before. Cisco sold the set top box division.I don't think Rogers got sold out.I'm sure the new company would have kept a customer.Sorry don't buy it. 

 

I proposed an option to let people choose to reboot nightly.That's not rocket science.

A while back I asked why you push the Green button to bring the local weather up on the screen.But you can't push it again to toggle it off.Nope you have to push the exit button. If Rogers wants to pay   . programmers for . software so be it.But don't raise my cable rates every year for all the "improvements" they seem to think they are delivering.

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Before I respond a full disclosure:  I have never agreed with Rogers on the implementation of what we got, and I am not in anyway associated with Rogers, just a overpaying customer with things I like and things I don't and I am here just to support, help, listen, validate and be a fellow member of the forum and Rogers customer with all its good, the bad and the ugly (Navigatr fits into the latter section).

 

Sorry if I may have miscommunicated my position.  I don't defend them on this whole issue, I have been incessant in my disdain of Rogers on this rollout from day one, but I also did not want to change services, so I worked with many others to keep all the issues high profile (we did accomplish to get them to respond to most of them).

 

I mention the list of workarounds that are posted, as there are a range of them available, and they all get us through the mess and at the end of the day, I just live with it.  What other choice do I have - I have ranted, I have gone the media route, I have worked with others here, I have looked at other services, but at the end of the day, I chose to stay, and then worked with others to find workarounds, for those we could develop, it gave me and others a range of ways to work with things that bugged us from day one.

 

I think that I joined on with others that decided that we weren't going anywhere, we pushed hard to high levels, to CRTC for accessibility issues, to the Annual general meeting by one person and made it public to the shareholders and media reps that were there (that got the first full acknowledgement and commitment to deal with most of the issues, but we knew there was never going to be any going back whether we liked it or not).

 

I used the reboot nightly for quite a stretch during the early days until they finally got the Nextbox 3 PVR version stable. I didn't have the slower Nextbox 2, so for me I didn't have that to deal with, but was more than aware from all the others involved that it was not fun for them, ever - many of those did leave, and others pushed until they got replacement boxes, or decided to bite the bullet and just rent a newer box, relegating their older box as a door stop, boat anchor, a backup box, a second slow box in another place in the house, or sold it to some poor soul over the Internet.  And I also became more familiar with OTT solutions on the Internet for those times when the box drove me crazy.

 

So defend them, absolutely not, the whole trip down this road has been indefensible, but it is what we got handed, and each of us made our own decisions of how to go forward.

 

And yes, we listened to excuses and most often no communication at all as to how we got here or where they were taking us.

 

No we all agree we would not treat our customers this way (I like many others have worked in this business or are actively working in it and do know what we were talking about).

 

We have made proposals of changing what buttons on our remotes did, and to make toggle switching consistent, rather than go to esc key for some, and toggle for others.

 

You should have seen how long it took for them to get a functional and consistent model for accessing closed captioning from anywhere on the device whether it be on demand, live tv, or PVR recordings, or asking for the ability to know what network, and full date and time information so we can know what we are about to watch on our recordings (all things that are still clunky, and @57 is the strongest advocate of just use Anyplace TV for the greatest ease and most detail, along with an online guide provider to get the most complete details possible.  Yes a work around, but we asked, we screamed, we yelled, some got edited, deleted on their posts, some just left, but what you see is what we have had since early last year, and there has been no further changes of the nature you mention like the weather one.

 

So do keep screaming, you are new to this mess, I am only trying to let people know that as much as they make themselves heard, I am not expectant of any other minor or major changes to this programming model and that the bugs and odditites that are left, it appears to me that they have taken it as far as they are going to.

 

The fact that they dumped it out onto the users who had perfectly working boxes that they had not rolled it out to, knowing that they were in for issues that we had all seen before boggles the mind.

 

I can see that there are some periods inserted in some spots on your post - these represent automatic censorship by the forum software that have been coded in over time.  Be careful to keep within the terms around keeping the environment friendly, (we have all been caught once or twice in our frustration), but do keep speaking your mind.

 

All I am saying is from experience in this whole issue, I am not expecting that we will see any other changes, the programming was poorly engineered, designed, and written, and didn't reflect how most of us used the box for our viewing, in particular how we used PVR's.  The terminals without PVR's were more well accepted by most of those users, the biggest mess was in the PVR side of things.

 

So I am not making excuses for them, I am not accepting the excuses for them, Rogers made a decision that is wel documented here, and all social media forums, theirs and others, in the media as the the frustration and anger that it all created for us the consumer.

 

So again, I hear exactly where you are coming from, agree totally, and please don't take my statements as defending them, it is acceptance of the reality of the situation, that we did our best to get as many changes as we could get, and now for us the long term people involved in this mess, the best we can offer is to agree with your emotional responses and disbelief, and to provide the known workarounds and the history of what changed by referencing the documents available and how to do the proverbial move on and live with it.  

 

And yes, it would be great to have a one step simple reboot option. - you are right it is not rocket science - it is exists in the same place it has always existed going all the way back to SARA - in the settings (if it is not frozen), and the standard that has existed for all electronics - unplug it, wait and plug it back in again, and when that doesn't help, contact support.

 

I won't be responding further on this topic, as it has all been said before and I really have moved on, and I do like to validate that concerns like being put forward are as valid today as they were 2 years ago.  I have done that, and I had my turn at ranting, and I turn it over to others - maybe you will have some success in getting changes we couldn't get, I do hope so.

 

So do keep communicating, concerns, requests for guidance in how to work with the mess, and complaints. One of us will pop in and do our best to help.

 

Here's to all the unfortunate new users of Navigatr finding some peace with the mess we all have in front of us.

 

Sincerely, Bruce

 

 

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Nextbox 3 died, replaced with 4K - Zoom problem back.

 

My Nextbox 3 died a few days ago and was replaced by a Nextbox 4K.  One thing I noticed is that the zooming problem, which was finally fixed in the NB3 is back with the 4K.  Why is something so simple as this so hard to to with these PVRs?  It's just a simple 4:3 ratio, so that a letterbox & pillar image fills the screen.  Also, even with the NB3, they cheated a bit, in that there's still a small black border around the image, but that was far better than the previous expand well beyond the screen, so that part of the image was lost.

 

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment


@JKnott wrote:

Nextbox 3 died, replaced with 4K - Zoom problem back.

 

My Nextbox 3 died a few days ago and was replaced by a Nextbox 4K.  One thing I noticed is that the zooming problem, which was finally fixed in the NB3 is back with the 4K.  Why is something so simple as this so hard to to with these PVRs?  It's just a simple 4:3 ratio, so that a letterbox & pillar image fills the screen.  Also, even with the NB3, they cheated a bit, in that there's still a small black border around the image, but that was far better than the previous expand well beyond the screen, so that part of the image was lost.

 


I didn't have that experience. On my NB3 the zoom function is still inferior to the SARA version. You either stretch the shrunken "16:9" 4:3 image surrounded by back borders or zoom in until the edges are cut off.

With the old version you could make it fill 16:9 exactly without distortion or cutting off parts of the image. The only time "stretch" would come in handy is if there's a 16:9 picture squished into 4:3 horizontally. And this issue isn't even from Navigatr, it's from the previous "Enhanced Guide."

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Completed series/shows still show on recoded list

 

How do I remove series/shows from the recorded list that have no recordings left to watch and no new episodes left to record? For example a mini-series that isn't returning and that I've finished watching and deleted all recordings, still shows in the list on the recorded side. How do I clear them off?

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Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment