NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

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kso
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 69

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

I've noticed the poster art is there on shows, then after a reboot it would disappear on some and doesn't come back.

Rebooted again and those same shows, still not back. Everything looks fine in Cache.

But the poster art is very unpredictable.
kso
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 69

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

7 hours later update.

After rebooting when I posted the message above, now 7 hours later I checked and poster art for everything is back.

So some art needs time (like hours) after a reboot? I suppose.
robindp
I'm an Advisor
Posts: 764

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

Hello @kso,

I have the same issue - takes 4-7 hours before almost all art is back (still some missing).

 

I hope things get better/faster soon - Rogers: could poster art be cached on the PVR? (rather than needing to be downloaded after a reboot).

kvkvkv
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

why didn't rogers give people the option to keep the original software the 8642 came with. it was excellent especially compared with this major downgrade as of january 2017. channels with small pictures such as ami-tv channel 888  ( the fact that rogers doesn't carry the channel for people with vision impairment in hd or the highest picture quality to begin with is a separate matter in and of itself ) could be zoomed using the button under the 9 on the remote and this would bring the image to a proper 4:3 format. this is no longer possible. now there are 3 options, 1 is stretch which makes people look fat  ( remember the old rogers commercials about people having the right cable box for their hdtv? ), 2 is 25% zoom and 3 is 50% zoom, both of which cut off the picture. the stingray music channels no longer display in 480p, they have shrunk to 1080i. the radio stations permanently show station id burning in the image whereas with the old software they would go blank after 5 minutes or you could toggle the image on and off with the ok button. pressing info while watching a tv show no longer shows the date and time. the response time has mushroomed from instant to between 5 and 7 seconds for every action on an 8642. my choice of background colour / theme  is no longer available. it is no longer possible to see wether a channel is in 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i on the cable box itself. it is no longer possible to edit recording time by a specific number of minutes of my choosing. it is no longer possible to scan through only the channels i am receiving  ( it stops on each and every channel ). in the guide, using the page up / down or line up / down produces the same result, that being page up / down. single line scrolling through the guide is yet another feature that has been removed. this is a major major downgrade in almost every if not every way.

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

@robindp

 

 

 

I am not sure how the box goes about requesting updates to art occur, but what I do know is that our current available poster art is in a cache on the box.  I have checked this by looking at the diagnostic information on the poster art cache.

 

You will see a list on the left of things to see - the one you want is +Services  - at the bottom of the list (just arrow up to scroll to the bottom in one click) and you will see the Poster Art.

 

There is a range of information in there on size of cache, number of art files, number of times you have opened up recorded list, or future recordings lists.  In my case, if I open the list of recorded shows, I will see 51 recordings, but there will be 41 hits on the cache which is how many actually have poster art.

 

One thing I do wonder is if there is a limit on the cache size, or maybe, the process of downloading art to the cache and synching it to the lists is somewhat odd.  Obviously, there are either art (not talking about those shows that may not have art, but new shows I know have art because they had it last week) files that are not being downloaded (there is a recorded of how much art was downloaded and how many failed (mine shows 0 at the moment, although my wife got two shows with art from three hours ago, so maybe they downloaded before the nights update - that one I don't understand).

 

So in answer, the issue of displayed art may have something to do with when downloads occur of the art files, do they synch to the lists and when, does the box do an occasional download from the server of this artwork, and that is why it suddenly shows up hours later, got me.

 

But there is no question, the downloading and loading of files to all the compents of the box such as the removal of the day before grid information, the addition of the next day, the loading of future recording information to the future recording list, the population of the red single recording or series recording red dots to the grid, the download of On Demand catalogues, and art.  It would appear that there is not enough power or speed to handle this quickly, although most of it is done say within 30 minutes.

 

As for the download of the cache poster art, this apears to be independent of the nightly download.

 

As to will Rogers do anything - they know about the issue, but personally I don't think that either that they will tell us anything (they have said nothing since the last major upgrade back in October - when I say Rogers, I am saying the company communicating something to the mods to say to us - they don't communicate directly to us on this board, only through the mods posts.

 

I kind of doubt that Rogers is going to do anything further with this box - they have announced that the IPTV will not come until 2018 and will be Comcast, and they have killed the in house development of a new model for IPTV as it would not scale across the network.  So my guess would be that they have no development or fixes going on with this box at all anymore since this is now a dead model.  In Atlantic Canada, they pushed out their new guide to SD only, and the HD boxes have never come and no word to them from Rogers as to if or when it will come.  So if they are doing work, they still have their guides to take care of finishing, and we are left with a number of nuicance bugs to the box.

 

Just my opinion.  but in summary, there is definitely a cache, but how that cache is updated and loaded to the list is foreign to me.  Obviously the files come down, some are removed over time, and some shows don't have art ever, and some get it some time.

 

So great thoughts, but currently this is the way it is, and maybe Rogers will listen and do something as part of the broader list of issues.

 

Bruce

 

BS
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

@kvkvkv 

 

Background to Changes in the box:

 

To understand this fully, search for the three major Navigtr threads for the first upgrade in July of 2015, then the next major upgrade in January 2016, and the final upgrade which was in October/November (this thread).

 

There is no going back to the old guide.  That has been very clearly told to us since 2015.

 

From day one, we were firmly and clearly told, there was no going back to pre 2015 and that going forward we were on the new guide and PVR model.  In spite of many requests, there was no going back, at to make it worse, they killed the rollout after a couple of weeks because the first rollout wiped some Nextbox 2 recordings, and the whole programming was a mess - if you think the current one has issues, you should see what we have been through over the last 15 months.  It took until January 2016 before they even got it stable enough to start the rollout again, and even then, they had to freeze it a couple of times do to a failed attempt at power savings.

 

You can see a review of all the issues and changes at this link http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes/message...

 

AT this link, you will find a few posts highlighting the changes and how to use each of the features.

 

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumpage/board-id/PVR_settop_boxes_remotes

 

SD channel feeds

 

I am not sure what you mean by that you can't go to 4:3 for the SD picture.  On that channel, on my HD 1080p TV, I see the 4:3 ratio showing as a small box in my large TV screen.  And yes, you can change the aspect, but his issue is true with any SD feed. 

 

The reality is that some channels are still broadcasting in SD and that is not a Roger's issue, that is the broadcaster.  In some cases, channels are available on other channels on HD.  See my comment later about default choice of output to your TV screen type and resolution to match the output to your TV.

 

Radio Channels

 

I don't know about the radio stations, I do use them, much, so don't know if they disappear, but you are right, they did used to.  We just turn the TV off.

 

Stingray pictures are provided by Stringray and Rogers has no control over that one either.

 

 

Colour Theme choices

 

You are correct, there is only one theme available now, but that is a result of a lot of requests by users, on this board and other places to bring the viewing to a contrast, font, colour that in their view was asthetically pleasing, as well as providing a font/texture/contrast that met OADA recommendations for accommodations for the visually impaired.  The first iteration in 2015 was almost impossible to read the text at all, and some text was the same colour as the backgrounds, so you couldn't read it ever.

 

 

Filtering the guide to show only subscribed channels

 

To go to subscribed shows only, go into guide, select c for filter, and select subscribed.  

 

They will be gone, but be aware that if the box is rebooted during a nightly update of guide and art information, you will need to reset it.

 

The behaviour of the guide button differs a bit depending upon whether you have a filter, and/or favourites set - if you have a filter or favourites set, the guide toggles between the different views.

 

If the first time you go into the guide, you see "GUIDE" at the top left beside the Navigatr logo, you have no filters, and you just toggle guide to close it.  When a filter is in place, you need to Exit to leave the guide.

Again, if others can comment, please help @kvkvkv know how to work with the box as is.

 

Default settings of resolution for the box

 

In settings, Appearance, you will find settings for output choice of 4:3 SDTV, 16:9 SDTV, 720p HDTV, 1080i HDTV, and 1080p HDTV to match your TV type.

 

Final comments

 

None of us that have been at this for way too long will dispute that compared to the old box, the changes were primarily cosmetic, and in many ways were a step back, but it appears that what we have now is what we have right now, and we have heard nothing new, except that publically, Rogers announced that they had killed the IPTV project as it would not scale, and they are going with Comcast to come out in 2018.

 

I am merely a user, just like you, and I am the one who originated the first thread on font sizes, way back in 2015 - it has been a long run, and I never thought that I would become an expert on Navigatr and the new PVR model, but myself and a group of others have pushed hard along with others and we have managed to get major improvements in the box with each major upgrade.  There are still outstanding issues, but to date, Rogers has never communicated if there are any next steps to the mods to let us know if this is as far as we are going, or if the remaining issues will be dealt with.  Because of the decision recently on the move to the Comcast IPTV model and that TV ultimately will be IPTV based, that we will probably see no further changes, but that is just my best guess and that what issues are left can be worked around, and we have found work arounds for them, but they continue to support replacing bad boxes, tech support still will check signal levels and deal with area and cabling issues.  The box is actually not in production anymore, so what you will get is refurbished ones.

 

The 4K boxes are using the same design model, but the boxes are newer.

 

Feel free to go through the escalation process to voice your concerns. Expressing your concerns here, we as members can help you to use the box, provide history of how we got here and the current status of things based upon what we have been told or not told directly by Rogers, but it is unlikely that Rogers will speak directly to what is written here on the box.  If they do, you will here it through a moderator, and at this point, what you read is what they know and they will let us know if they here anything else.

 

 

I hope this is helpful for you to at least figure out how to use the box, warts and all, as it currently sits.  There are still things that drive many of nuts, and we continue to voice them here in this last thread, so feel free to read the whole thread and see the progression of this last update and we will help as we can, but we are not reiterating anything that is not in this last thread, and the earlier ones already.

 

One last tip, if you want some ease in searching, it can be awkward and is a remaining concern/issue, but we have found as a group that using the online Anyplace TV site an effective way to manage your recordings and future recordings, although greatly improved on the box from where it was, but in particular, the search options are much greater on the online site.

 

All the best, Bruce

 

 

 

park
I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

HI @BS

 

Can you tell us more about the future of the NB3?

 

e.g As I own 2 of them, should I resell them B4 2018 ?

e.g. Can they support IPTV ?

 

@BS wrote:

"kind of doubt that Rogers is going to do anything further with this box - they have announced that the IPTV will not come until 2018 and will be Comcast, and they have killed the in house development of a new model for IPTV as it would not scale across the network.  So my guess would be that they have no development or fixes going on with this box at all anymore since this is now a dead model.  In Atlantic Canada, they pushed out their new guide to SD only, and the HD boxes have never come and no word to them from Rogers as to if or when it will come.  So if they are doing work, they still have their guides to take care of finishing, and we are left with a number of nuicance bugs to the box."

kvkvkv
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

what i mean about the sd feed is that in the past ( i had the original software that came with the box ) when i was watching a channel with not just a 4:3 image but a channel with a small picture like ami tv channel 888, i would press zoom ( under the 9 ) and the picture would increase in size from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen with black bars on the left and right. ( the small picture was small because the bars were on both the top, bottom, left and right ).it would zoom to the top and bottom without looking stretched. now it no longer does that. now it stretches left to right and makes people look fat. stingray images used to cover the entire screen by being in 480p. now they are a small image. both the zoom issue and the stingray music channel image size issue still work correctly on my 4250hd boxes. ( non - pvr's ) i'm glad i kept those old boxes. i switched back to them after they ruined the newer 4642hd boxes with this kind of software.

i'm not talking about filtering the guide to show only subscribed channels, i'm talking about watching a channel and pressing the channel up or down button. it used to go to the next subscribed channel. now it goes to the next channel wether or not you subscribe to it. i know how to set the output type for my tv. i'm just saying it was a nice feature to be able to see it on the actual cable box as it changed for different channels. this feature has been removed. i know how to use the box. i'm saying it's not as useful a box as it once was and rogers should have allowed users who were happy with the original software to keep it if they so wished. 

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 3,948

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

@kvkvkv

 

1. Most HDTVs have a stretch/zoom mode that may do what you want instead of using the STB for that functionality.  If you have an HDTV, check the TV's operating manual for a stretch/zoom/aspect mode button.

 

2.  The SARA firmware that you're discussing has hundreds of differences when comparted to the Navigatr firmware.  Most of the new STBs/PVRs will not run SARA and run Navigatr only, unfortunately.

 

3. As mentioned in the posts above, there are a huge number of differences between SARA and Navigatr, some of which people like, some not.  Some of the items simply take getting used to, others can be a pain.  Not that many people "surf" channels any more. It's much quicker to bring up the guide and see what's on the channels there. Surfing the guide is recommended rather than surfing the channels.  A far better option is to get a PVR and stop wasting your time surfing and instead spend it watching recorded programming, skipping commercials, etc.



abc101
I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 7

Re: NextBox Navigatr - October/November 2016 Deployment

I have not been here in quite a while, but I have experienced the frustrations of Navigatr.  Until last week, I had never viewed any program via On Demand, channel 100.  I assumed it would be like watching a program that I recorded.  Well, it wasn't.  The only playback functions available while watching an On Demand show are Pause, Stop and Play.  There is no FF or Rew so if you miss a couple seconds/minutes due to a distraction you've had it.  There's no going back, as it were.

 

Has this always been the case?