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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Definition of unabated:

 

un·a·bat·ed
ˌənəˈbādəd/
adjective
 
  1. without any reduction in intensity or strength.
    "the storm was raging unabated"

 Probably not the best choice of words - but would appear to be the truth of how they are approaching this issue.  So as I read it, the rollout  will go forward withouth any reduction in intensity or strength, and like a storm, if we have concerns, or resistance, it will blow us over.

 

Rogers choice of words, my interpretation, but I didn't pick the words.  This choice of words reflects exactly what we have experienced.  We have talked, there has been little feedback, and total silence at times, no matter who we speak to.  The occasional honesty sneaks out from probably a frustrated rep, as frustrated as us, but the message has been clear from the beginning, they are listening, but appear from their messages that they have no intention of turning back, no matter what we have to say.

 

Just the humble opinion of a customer of 23 years, who has always been satisfied, almost never spoke out on this forum, and has become highly vocal for myself and all the other souls on this page, and all the people who don't know where to go to say what is on their mind.  Although note that the Facebook page has blown up.

 

Don't know what else to say, don't feel like I am being listened to anyway.  All my years of experience, knowledge, preferences, years of being a dedicated customer, none of that seems to matter.

 

So I thought I was done talking, but just when I think I am done, another phrase, like unabated comes out.  I hope the message was stated poorly, and the words were chosen poorly without understanding exactly what those words mean.

 

"I can confirm that is not the case. Once we are ready to begin the Navigatr rollout to the remaining cities, Navigatr will be uploaded to all eligible equipment unabated."  I do hope that when you are ready to rollout to the remaining cities, you have responded to all of the issues on this never ending thread, which will not end until we are satisfied, and will grow if you try to upload to all eligible equipment unabated.

 

Bruce

 

So to refresh you on the definition and that our concerns back to this will also be unabated.

un·a·bat·ed
ˌənəˈbādəd/
adjective
 
  1. without any reduction in intensity or strength.
    "the storm was raging unabated"
I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator


@krap wrote:

Guess whose NB3 machine got zapped ?

All programs wiped out.  PVR at 0% full this afternoon.

 

Must have wiped the HD sometime earlier today or in the wee hours.

Angry spouse called Rogers, asking what happened and when can we get the old guide back.

The nice CSR authorized a swap out.

We noted that it records OK now.  She said swap it, likely to lose its recordings in future !

We sais OK and asked to note it on our file.

 

Got the replacement at the nearby Rogers store, fortunately less than a km away.

Rogers employee said he had many people come in to get a replacement machine, today.

Dug a bit deeper, apparently there was an "update" to Navigatr last nite and some machines did not take.

 

Came home, booted my machine.

Was not authorized to view any

 

Called and nice CSR authorized it and we were up and running.

I thanked her and mentioned that there were some benefits due ?

She quickly authorized the usual bill credit and on-demand credits.

We commiserated about Navigatr.  She was very good and could recite the FAQ perfectly.  

 

 


@ @krap 

 

Just so I'm clear:

1. The NB3 that was "wiped" yesterday had had Navigatr on since Tuesday July 28th?

2. Prior to Friday's "wipe", your NB3 was not displaying blank Settings screen or PIN lockout issues.

3. You weren't at any time made aware that an update/facotry reset was to happen to your PVR on Friday Aug 21st?

 

Also, can you tell us what town this, please?

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: New Nextbox Navigator



 

Dunno what the new download fixed yet, if anything. Would be nice if Rogers told us.

It must also do something deep inside the Firmware's inner-workings (getting ready for IPTV stuff ?? )

else Rogers would NOT be so quick to say swap it out after the download blew my recordings away.

 

So why is this internal change tied to a untested PVR UI?  Rogers, please let us know why?
Anyway found another Navigatr problem.
Could not record a program which I was watching a few minutes delayed.
When I clicked to "live",then "record" it recorded from where I first started watching that program, as it should.

 

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: New Nextbox Navigator



 


 @krap 

 

Just so I'm clear:

1. The NB3 that was "wiped" yesterday had had Navigatr on since Tuesday July 28th?

YES could you not tell from my constant whining ?

2. Prior to Friday's "wipe", your NB3 was not displaying blank Settings screen or PIN lockout issues.

NOPe. What are those ?

3. You weren't at any time made aware that an update/facotry reset was to happen to your PVR on Friday Aug 21st?  NOPE  Ist CSR was nice but seemed to be coached to say nothing about Rogers tinkering. She was very curious as to when we last viewed a recorded program. It was Thursday eve.

Also, can you tell us what town this, please? Mississauga.

 

PS: We have 2 NB3s, the other one came through the Navigatr attack unscathed.


I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@krap  - Thanks for the replies. I see you PM'd me to ask why I asked the questions, and here's why:

 

re #1: I know I wrote "Just so I'm clear" but I was really asking for the purpose of getting you to clarify things for all readers as you did not specify. Not everyone will have read through every page, and some readers may even be new to the forums today (Friday) as a result of having an experience similar to yours. Also, a few posters posting in these Navigatr threads have said that they do NOT yet have Navigatr.. they've been vocal because based on what they've read, they do not want it!

re #2: see thread "Navigatr keeps asking for Parental Control PIN". The blank Settings screen seems to only affect those with the PIN issue (I could be wrong). See #3 below for relevance.

 

re #3: Last week it was said that a 'factory reset' would be forced on "a small number" of customers to permanently resolve the isuses some had been experiencing, and that the procedure would wipe the drives. Rogers didn't specify which issues that was. At least one Member here posted that they received advance warning via a "robocall". It was confirmed afterwards that the reset did indeed resolve the PIN lock-out issue and its apparently associated blank Settings screen issue and the locked-on Descriptive Video on some channels issue that some had also been having. On that basis, I was asking the question of you as perhaps instead of an "update" (as you put it) it was just this forced reset, a few days later than originally announced - perhaps as you were in a different town to the town that was "fixed" Monday.

 

re: "where do you live?" - when something significant happens it's helpful for us readers to know where it happened so we can see how widespread the issue might be (because Rogers isn't likely to tell us). For example, here in Aurora, we got Navigatr the same day you did in Mississauga, but I can tell you that we did not receive an updated revision of Navigatr on Friday (I've been checking version #s every day!). If as you believe you really did receive a new version, and that it prompted so many people in your area to head to their local Rogers store on Friday to exchange their PVRs, then that tells us Rogers is doing the "smart thing" in narrowing their release rollout to fewer communities at a time that originally scheduled. Only problem with that: Mississauga is the 6th most populous city in Canada!

 

Conclusion: a Navigatr update being rolled out to your entire town seems unlikely.

 

Now, as your reply added the addtional detail that you have 2x NB3s and the one you didn't return was "unscathed", that creates the opportunity for 2 new questions: What software version # is on the unscathed box, and is it the same as on the new box?

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 480

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

 With pleasure @theClubHopper  (Sherlock).

 

 

Unscathered NB3 box :

This one shows Your PVR is XX.X% full after hitting [list]. 

 

DSCF4447.JPG

 

 

 

The fresh NB3 from Rogers (the one that does not show % saved)

 

DSCF4446.JPG

 

 

and for completeness the pic showing no % save info on this fresh box:

 

DSCF4444.JPG

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Very interesting find - two boxes with same build numbers on everything (at least as appears to these failing eyes) and mine shows exactly the same on a NB3, but clearly you are getting different behaviour on the two identical builds.  Now either the software is corrupted on one, or something weird in the settings is changing the behaviour in boxes (they did identify in an earlier post that some of the conflicts had to do with pre rollout settings (I refuse to call it an upgrade), of the new interface, and functioning of various settings in the box. I will continue to emphasize that in testing standards, you test every variation of what the box is capable of a user doing, and work your way through every feature set and see how it is working. I know it is a lot of work, but this is also why you beta test, and rollout to limited groups.  It appears that Rogers did rollout to limited groups, but didn't actually tell us that we were actually going to be serving as unaware testers.  I know most other companies do this (phone manufacturers, cable/tv boxes, operating systems, etc), and I could even live with being a beta tester as I have been for other technology, but only when I have a full backup and can rollback when things go wrong (not available in this rollout we have been clearly told), or the alternative, is rollout to a large number, provide them a second box, leave their existing one alone, and the user sets it up as closely to the other box as possible (maybe there is a way to pull the configuration information from the backend, I know Microsoft and other companies can certainly do that).

 

But I have said this many times before, as have many others.  I don't feel like Rogers is listening to our advices, theories, recommendations, and user preferences, but I keep putting it out there.

 

To close off, this implementation has become an impetus to users of this board to become a sounding board for everything that is going wrong whether it be billing, changes in phone plans, and every other concern that anyone has, both current and historical. Users on Facebook, and Twitter, and with no doubt hearing the sigh from CSR's on the phone, that it is flowing through the CSR's, chat, and upwards frequently are doing the same to.

 

Rogers has a lot of work to do to get back to demonstrating their publicized committment to improving customer services, and being a leader in innovation, listening to the users, and improving the experience for the customer.

 

This experience along with the new billing structure, the constant changes in terminology and plans, and the incessant marketing and scripted phrases have turned this customer off. I want to help you move forward, for the benefit of all of us, but if I don't feel heard, as many say they don't, why should I bother.

 

Time will tell how they handle this future rollout.  I do hope that they do build some focus groups (they said they won't), that they will consider the user experience and what worked well in the past models (they have said that they won't), and that they will roll out carefully, and not unabated.  Get it fixed properly, consider the feedback that we all have given, assure the customers who have not got it yet that they won't experience the same mess and when I say, assure, I mean make sure it does not happen, and listen to the fact that we want choice as much as possible.  Text interface lists can run concurrently with choice for the consumer alongside new user interfaces.  It is not impossible.  It does take time, true, and money, but do you want to live up to those earlier stated goals and mission statements to the customer or not.

 

We will have to see.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

By the way, that strange behaviour I mentioned last week about pushing the record button and no recording starts, is still there and intermittent.  I just had it happen for the third time since I posted it.  I ended up being able to record by bringing up the banner, leaving the banner and low and behold the recording button now worked. When I turn the box off, and back on, it is still working on the record button.  Maybe it is tied to the biweekly updates on the menu content. Only a guess, haven't got a clue, but the problem continues to be intermittent.  I will watch it and see what happens.

 

And second, the feature savings for series recording on same day, or any day, keeps switching back to same day, no matter whether I set it by savings, or save it when setting up a recording.

 

So look closely when recording series that you get all the settings that you want, and check occassionaly that they are still on the future recordings.

 

Bruce

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 64

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@BS

I'm not sure if you read a message I posted previously regarding my experience with saving settings for recording series; it was likely 4 or 5 pages ago by now!

In any event, this is what I discovered: I had a similar problem at first but then I found a way to make the setting "stick". Go into settings and change your selection to This Day Only and then exit settings. Now go back into settings and switch it back to Any Day, then exit again. For some reason, this "switch" maintains the new setting and I haven't had a problem since.....and it's been a few weeks.

It is possible if I reboot the box, the settings will reset but it hasn't happened yet.
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@KWoo  Thanks for bring it up.  It is a good find, but I think I answered your question about does it hold with a reboot.  I accidently rebooted my box the other day when I unplugged it by accident looking for the plug for another device.

 

Don't want to reboot it again just to check.

 

We continue to work together to debug this crazy box with mixed success.  Ahh the workarounds we are currently living with. I wonder if they have taken the code down to the base and have started all over again?  Some of these bugs, this would be the only way to get at them.

 

Thanks, Bruce