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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

There is a new pinned post putting all tutorials in one place. That is great - notice that it doesn't show the difficulty of finding your recorded or scheduled recordings, or any way to see scheduled cards without playing concentration solitare.


Hopefully fixes will come soon to clean up these issues. For now I wait.


I spoke with Office of President today and suggested that before rolling out an upgrade like this again that there are many people on this forum topic who have a very indepth knowlege of testing and documenting issues. I suggested they set us up with an pre upgrade box with screen and a new box with screen (why these items loaned to us - so our families aren't interupted from life while us retired, highly skilled people test the boxes to death, do side by side comparisons, ease of use comparisons etc.  Our backgrounds mean we know how to do this well and most of us our very strong documentors, and can even generally identify were in the psudeo programming models based upon use, we could probably identify exactly where in the coding modules where to bugs may lie and by referencing back and forth, we can identify clearly where the difficulties lie for a skilled user, and we will provide documentation on how to do it both ways. Then you can take it out to naive, non program oriented users and see how well they can pick up, what level of support and the learning curve, and listen closely to their feedback.


She was in agreement that this was a very good idea and she and other staff have been thinking the same. So they are listening, and I hope they seriously consider the offer. I have personally talked to at least three people who have expresed an interest and have time. This makes the user part of the development, testing, and redesign team, making things more efficiently done. This is the models that are out there. Not new, but also not commonly done. 


As a last note and I will be generally staying away from the board. I not sure there is anymore constructive criticism and recommendation that can be presented and that almost all that is left is complaints, which I think are good to be heard, but as I learned today, getting to the office of the president, getting a knowledgeable support person to understand where we are coming from and so forth proved to be very beneficial for me to summarize all the issues from my perspective. She had read the forums too which is good. 


One piece of constructive criticism to close off:


In this post from 2014, it talks about how great it is to be able to save almost 200 shows with the compressed video file system.  Great, but not if you can't ensure stability of the box. If it fails you lose everything, or the upgrade kills it, you lose everything. If you want to use this as a great thing of the box, you have to ensure as best as you can that nothing will be lost due to actions of your own programming implementations.  It also contradicts and even comments on the topic of hoarding and encourages us to do so.


All the best to everyone and hears to hoping this gets cleared up soon.


Thanks for the hard work by all of us and hopefully the rogers team can get it right in the next pass. Even windows 10 has just release 10.1 1 month after they rolled out 10 officially, so we can always expect things to go wrong in a big fix.



I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

2 weeks later  still no change

i got off luckier as i have a netbox 3


same old rogers


if it aint broke don't fix it 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 55

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread reaching out to Ron Perrotta, Senior Vice President Marketing, Residential Services. I just called the main Rogers number and asked for him. Was transferred to the voicemail of his assistant Nikki. Left my name, phone number, said that I saw his name was associated with the Navigatr marketing materials, and then gave a brief explanation of my concerns - in particular that Navigatr is a complete disaster and that we want the old guide back. Will update this forum if/when I get a response.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,345

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@BS great post.  The same situation applies to the new Hitron internet modems, which have been problematic to say the least.  And.....there are also people who are also willing to help out and test firmware updates.  They just need to be asked........

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@shan-man wrote:

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread reaching out to Ron Perrotta, Senior Vice President Marketing, Residential Services. I just called the main Rogers number and asked for him. Was transferred to the voicemail of his assistant Nikki. Left my name, phone number, said that I saw his name was associated with the Navigatr marketing materials, and then gave a brief explanation of my concerns - in particular that Navigatr is a complete disaster and that we want the old guide back. Will update this forum if/when I get a response.


I called too. I'm well aware Ron Perrotta is in marketing, but the fact of the matter is that HE contacted us (via the letter which bore his name) and as no other names are forthcoming from Rogers, I have a couple of questions for HIM, that I know he will be able to answer. So when a receptionist intercepted and asked "The reason for your call?", I said "Ron contacted me".


She said "Is that about Navigatr?" and I said "Yes". I know I could have lied, but why should I have to stoop to such tactics? She then transferred me to the Office of the President instead. Having already spoken to them last week and not been provided with the answers I was looking for then (which was by then a full week after I first pleaded for answers and got none), I was understandably even more displeased than before.


The person at the O of the P claimed that Mr. Perrotta is unable to take or respond to customer comments, and that if I had a problem with that the next step would be TO GO THROUGH THE OFFICE OF THE OMBUDSMAN.


UN-believable! All I want to do is contact someone at Rogers who contacted me and I have to go through an ombudsperson?


I told her: "If Mr. Perrotta does not personally call me back this afternoon, then I will have no choice but to take this to the next stage, and believe me, that will NOT be dealing with your ombudsperson". I left my name & # and .. time is ticking.


Incidentally, last night I tried to find the name of any person with authority within Roger's "Cable" aka "Television" division. Literally everyone I've identified via Google either:

  • no longer works for Rogers or has moved on to other areas of responsibilty at Rogers
  • was or is really in the Marketing Dept, just like Mr. Perrotta. 2 years ago, it was "Phil Hartling, senior vice-president, consumer segment, Rogers Communications" who was bragging in a Rogers press release how great Nextbox 3.0 was going to be [link]. Mr. Hartling's LinkedIn profile shows that he was and is presently "Senior VP, Consumer Marketing".

Perhaps I've inadvertently uncovered the reason for this whole mess: apparently, nobody is in charge.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 55

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Has anybody contacted the Rogers Ombudsman yet? Perhaps that is the next logical step in trying to resolve this fiasco.

Or maybe the next logical step is to just bide our time and let Rogers roll this junk out across all of their markets. If there's this much noise about it already, imagine when everyone else gets it...
I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 519

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

It does appear that Rogers is not reversing its decision on Navigatr despite 33 pages of discussion on this thread as well as other related threads on these forums; despite numerous comments on various 3rd party forums such as The Digital Home Page; despite numerous complaints via the social media such as Facebook and Twitter. 


Yesterday, Rogers posted the following on FacebookLove TV? So do we. That’s why we’re proud to bring you the new Navigatr™ for NextBox. You'll get a new viewing experience which means less time searching for what you want, and more time enjoying your entertainment!


The one word that gets me is "proud". How can Rogers be proud to bring us something as bad as Navigatr? How can they be proud to bring us something that so many people are complaining about and that everyone who has received it wants gone? I am trying my hardest to stay with Rogers, but they are making it harder and harder to stay with them.


@BS I agree with @Datalink - Great post. I also agree with @Datalink about the Hitron Modems! 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 26

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Well, if Rogers is going to be pig-headed about this and just fixes the NB2 file loss issue and continues the rollout, I am just going to sit back and watch the fireworks on this forum - and perhaps some media (owned by a competitor) will pick up the story as well. <g>

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

Who is the Rogers ombudsman and how does one contact him?
I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: New Nextbox Navigator

@shan-man  To the ombudsman you go (off to see the wizard, the not so wonderful wizard of oz).  And next is Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (CCTS). If I recall, you can actually skip the ombudsman as no other company uses the model of the ombudsman.


The only challenge to this whole process, is it is so complex. My experience is that notes on file are often incomplete unclear and missing important elements you have discussed and agreed.  Write down every discussion and decision made, and then have them read their notes to you. Correct them if needed, ask them to add "the customer requests the following additions - and tell them exactly what to right).


But you then go to Loyalty or customer relations, and do they read the notes - in my experience, not if you don't ask them to.  They say, what can I do for you, I say, open my file on screen and please read the following notes.  If you have dealt with multiple issues, even if they are resoloved, have them read those too in order that they have a perspective of what you have been going through as of late.  Then if not satisfied, you go to a manager. Again, make them read the notes and by the way before you leave the first rep, don't accept "I will get a manager and explain to them the details". I make them document what we discussed and why I have declined any resolution and why I escalating.  Again, have them read it back.  If they do talk to the manager, on transfer to you, ask them what they have been told from the last person, and to read the notes.  I refuse to repeat what I said ever again.  I just correct them if they misunderstand what they have read, and sometimes, I even have them read it back to me and ask what it is that they do not understand or how they interpret it that way.  Then if not satisfied, on to the Office of the President.  I have used the online concern once, but the problem is that if you get moving between reps on phone, to chat, to higher levels, and throw in written concerns too, you start to get lost. In addition, if you decide to send the note (be sure to cut and paste your text to a file you can retrieve, because once you click send, you can no longer read it.  Remember to do the same with chats online - make your own copy of it all.


Have never been to Ombudsman or the CRTC level, but I have been very close over the last month.


Best of luck in using the escalation process - it is a very draining process, very confusing, and many mixed messages are created and you are at risk of accepting something you are not happy with because you just can't take it anymore.


And this new process of discontinuing old services and when they offer something new that we don't fully understand, then their response is "Oh we can't turn that back on" is unacceptable.  Even windows has "roll back" built in because they know errors occur, and their software sometimes create unexpected things that you need to roll back in order to retain or get functionality back.  Why not build a 7 day grace period to allow us to see what we are into and allow us to roll back. And more importantly, why not allow rollback to occur until the end of the 30 days we have to notify of errors on the bill, or miscommunicated items that we were convinced was better and cheaper than what we had before, only to learn, nope, it is not cheaper, nor better, we have lost services we use and not have to pay more to get it back, lost discounts on the package or you just have second thoughts when you realize that you were sold something you really didn't want and the marketing pitch was so good that we got confused.  That is why governments built in grace periods to back out of big sales like cars, things sold at the door, etc.  Maybe the CRTC needs to force grace periods to back out of changes.  Only seems fair and would be good customer service (the customer is right sometimes and the seller is wrong sometimes, and in those cases, you should be able to back out without just walking away).


Just writing this process is tiring. going through it is exhausting. And why do I stay, I am beginning to question that in the last month.  I have been given a token compensation for the inconvience, but boy did I have to work for it. I won't say what it was, but for now it is acceptable, but I also warned them that they could close the other issues I was dealing with, but the issues related to whether one number works after September 15,2015, and whether this navigatr issue will be resolved in a way that is satisfactory to the customer, these items are not closed until I see what comes. At that time I may be back - I certainly hope not, but time will tell.


And as for being proud about their navigatr in what was written earlier, I have pointed out to each rep I spoke to, how does a company of rep be proud of their company when the box now has a nickname of garberator and other similiar description terms. I know I certainly could not say I was proud. I can't even say that I am proud to be a customer, and isn't that what is actually more important, not that the company is proud, but that we are proud and satisfied.  Just the opinion of a person, now retired, who has rolled out many a large system in my career and understands what customer satisfaction really means.  And most importantly, I was in health care. I mess up of this level of the new billing, and navigatr (those are the biggest issues that have impacted large number of us), in my business, you would be talking about compromising the health as my customers were patients, and the clinicians.


So I am going to be patient see what happens, and if I have to escalate again on this one, my next step is the Ombudsman and CRTC,  not looking for any compensation, just to make it clear what the issues are from this one customer, and the many others I speak for from this board, red board, and many other sources, that this is an unexceptable way to provide services.


Have a great day everybody.  I keep saying I am gone, but things come up that keep bringing me back.  I think I need to quit looking at the forums for a while.



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