IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES


@BorisYYZ wrote:
Just finished Bell installation 1/2 hour ago.
Picture quality compared to Ignite is amazing, and to be honest with you, even if it's not that great, I'd love with it FOR $200+/MONTH CHEAPER!!!!! You pay $350 to Rogers and you expect quality, stability, and respect for you as a customer, and you get none of that - quite contrary... But now, even if the signal drops every now and then, if the modem acts up and churns like a locomotive, even if the customer service calls you names, I don't care for $125/ month (and that's WITH the movie package).
Goodbye Rogers.

Hmmm... Maybe I should stick with Rogers Digital TV then. I just switched from Bell Fibe TV mainly because my 2 year promotion is coming to an end, but also because of image quality. On my 65" 4K OLED TV, a lot of content looks very mediocre from Bell Fibe TV.

 

Rogers Digital Cable is definitely better image quality on some channels than Bell Fibe TV. I guess it should not come as a big surprise, since Bell limits all content to 720p but in addition to that. Everything lacks detail on Bell Fibe TV (at least when viewed on my 4K TV), and on some channels the image clarity is much better on Rogers. The colour balance of the boxes might be slightly different between Rogers Digital TV boxes and Bell Fibe TV boxes, I'm not sure, but the colour balance already varies from show to show and commercial to commercial, so no one colour setting is going to be perfect for everything anyway.

 

If Rogers Ignite TV is the same quality as Bell Fibe TV or worse, then there is not much point for me to switch away from Rogers Digital TV. I really appreciate the cloud features that Ignite and Fibe offer, but image quality is also very important.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES


@Gdkitty wrote:

Just double checking.. but have people checked the output settings? Make sure its as high as it can go?

Comparing it from the cable, I had the 9865 box, the quality is the same if not better. 
This is on a 1080 Samsung smart TV.
Havent recently, but when we first got it, did a netflix comparison as well, and looks identical to the built in app on my smart TV.

 


How big is your 1080p TV and what seating distance? I am using a 4K LG 65" C8 OLED TV from 7.5 feet away.

 

As for Netflix, my TV's built-in app is amazing. Totally different league from most cable. However, that's because the Netflix app supports 4K and HDR. Netflix 4K is truly glorious and there is a moderate amount of 4K content on Netflix these days. I wish more TV content on cable were 4K. I'm not a big sports watcher.

Resident Expert
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Posts: 13,822

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

Well yeah, the netflix on rogers box doesnt support 4k/hdr, so some of that content might be better on one than another.

Mines a higher end 60" Samsung 1080, about 4  years old?  And view it from about 10ft
Blurays look glorious, so I dont think the TV is the issue.  (blurays are definitely better than the TV or netflix period)




I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 3,428

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES


@Gdkitty wrote:

Well yeah, the netflix on rogers box doesnt support 4k/hdr, so some of that content might be better on one than another.

Mines a higher end 60" Samsung 1080, about 4  years old?  And view it from about 10ft
Blurays look glorious, so I dont think the TV is the issue.  (blurays are definitely better than the TV or netflix period)



Is it a smart TV? Because Samsung smart TVs have a Netflix app. For those who have smart TVs and Ignite, how do the Ignite and Samsung apps compare for definition?

 

I saw mentioned that Ignite TV won't do 4K UHD for Nexflix movies in that format.  But Netflix adapts the quality to whatever speed is available.  When I had 10/1 ADSL Internet I could still watch the 4K movies, but I never checked what resolution they were actually displaying because I sit too far from my 55" to see the difference, about 12 feet. I now have 50/10 VDSL and the download speed varies from 20 to 50 Mbps, depending on how many people are on the WiFi.  Checking just now I'm getting about 30 Mbps and when I check on Netflix, it's also the same speed. But when I watch a series I'm following, it's only using around 4 Mbps.  Then I watch a random 4K movie and it starts out about the same at 1080, then ramps up to 15 Mbps at 2160 resolution.  So with Rogers Ignite TV it won't do 2160 for 4K movies, even with the high download speeds available?


SA8300HD, SA8300SD, DTA50, LG-E410B PayGo. Location: S-W Ontario
I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

Im pretty much convinced its the boxes. It even looks bad on our sons lower end tv. And our dowload speed is averaging 100 - 107 mbps with a family of four streaming at the sametime. I think I will be getting a specialist in this field independent from rogers "technicians" . Cause anytime I have talked to them I get the deer in the headlights look...

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 144

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

Just noticed your analysis.

I am truly impressed with how you articulated the specific deficiencies you encountered. 

I agree with every point (maybe not so much the 'picture quality' point) but, as with any new approach there are things that need to be (and hopefully will be) addressed. 

 

Have you changed your opinion on any item?

Have you done speedtest.net analysis on all x16-a router?

What ignite service are you now using? 

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

I'm currently a Fibe TV subscriber and am considering returning to Rogers. I have family members who are Digital Cable subscribers, and I've also been seriously looking into Ignite TV and have tried it out it in multiple Rogers stores.  In my opinion, Digital Cable usually offers the clearest and sharpest picture, by far.

 

My biggest complaint about Fibe TV is that the picture lacks sharpness and suffers from poor colour fidelity.  With Fibe TV, the original signal undergoes a lot of processing before you see it on your HD or UHD TV. A 1080i signal from the source gets deinterlaced, rescaled, compressed, encoded as a 720p MPEG-4 stream and transmitted. (Bell actually has excellent encoders but they have to limit the bitrate so that they can still deliver multiple HD streams over (relatively) slow VDSL lines to the home.) Once received and decoded, the stream is then up-converted to a 1080p (or 4k) format by the set-top box and displayed. However, after being compressed and undergoing multiple conversions, the resulting picture appears soft/fuzzy, especially when compared to Digital Cable. To me, a 480p DVD looks better than a (720p) Crave/TMN movie on Fibe TV... and I swear that their picture quality has been getting worse and worse (more compressed) over the years.  If the Fibe Internet (VDSL) lines become problematic (either due to line quality issues or dropped packets) the picture quality suffers even more.

 

Digital TV is also compressed but at least it's transmitted in its native format to the set top box.  I have my parents' 8300HD configured in pass-through mode so that their TV receives content as it was transmitted. Their picture quality is excellent.  (I'm considering going back to Digital TV... but I've had too problems with the newer set-top boxes, and I'm NOT a fan of Navigatr.  So, perhaps Ignite TV??)

 

To my surprise, I was very disappointed with the Ignite TV picture quality.  I was expecting it to be stunningly clear.  However, when watching a basketball game, there were halos around each player on the court. The picture quality on Crave/TMN was exceptionally poor -- if you look at an actor holding a tablet or smartphone, it's hard to read text on the screen that you were meant to read.  Scrolling text and rapidly changing content on news channels (e.g. CP24) did not render well.  Neither did live content, like their own Shopping Channel.  The problem doesn't seem to be with the Ignite receiver but rather with how the source signal is de-interaced and encoded. Unlike Bell, Rogers doesn't have to squeeze 3 HD streams into a 15Mb/s VDSL pipe, so the Ignite TV picture quality should be exceptional.  I think much of the problem is due to the encoders that they have chosen.  (...and I think I know the brand that they are using.)  Hopefully, the picture quality will improve.

 

Sadly, I don't know what option to go with (or stay with) now.

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Posts: 2,629

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES


@-G- wrote:

....when watching a basketball game, there were halos around each player on the court. The picture quality on Crave/TMN was exceptionally poor -- if you look at an actor holding a tablet or smartphone, it's hard to read text on the screen that you were meant to read.  


This is likely not a function of the Ignite quality, rather a function of improper settings on the "demo" TV. Halos are almost always an indication that the sharpness is set too high on the TV.  Although it sounds counter-intuitive, the sharpness setting on most TVs should be very close to the lowest possible setting (1-10 out of 100), however, many TVs come pre-set to 50 out of a 100 or even higher.  I optimized home theatres for over a decade and this (sharpness), along with contrast (white level) and brightness (black level) are usually not optimized.

 

https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-57s-home-theatre-faqs/76161-faq-what-you-need-do-your-new-hdtv.h...

 

The reason you see the halos more on Rogers is because the picture is sharper than Bell to begin with and this affects the end result.

 

Although the 8300HD box has a fairly good picture, the processing is not nearly as good as say a 9865 and you end up with significantly more macroblocking.



I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

@57 I don't disagree with you.  You'd also think that Rogers would have calibrated (or at least optimized) their TVs in order to present Ignite TV at its best, especially in their main Toronto store.  However, based on the the various different problems that I saw, with different types of content and depending on whether it was a 1080i or 720p source signal, it definitely looked like these quality issues were due to the encoders that they are using.  Fortunately, this is fixable.  (Perhaps I'm nitpicking, and more sensitive to these issues from past experience.)

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 89

Re: IGNITE TV vs CABLE/DIGITAL - IGNITE LOSES

Thanks for explaining what I imagine was hapeening. Validation of the ignite system still in Beta stages.