Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

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I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 202

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

 

Add me to the list of people with this problem

 

Buzzhaze: I’ve been having the same problem as you. Sometimes the stupid Rogers abortion will play my shows – sometimes it won’t. Some days it works OK most of the day – other days I have to reboot up to a dozen times just to watch programs.

 

And why hasn’t Rogers fixed the bug that when the stupid box decides to reboot in the middle of me watching a program – the box doesn’t remember where in the program I had watched to?   Like you, I sometimes have to figure out how far into a program I was when the box decides on its own to crash – and then FF to the point I left off watching.

 

And Buzzhaze, you mention that trying a soft reboot does nothing. I think if you wait a minute the box WILL reboot after you tell it to in the menu. This will save you going through the physical trouble of pulling out the cord. However, I have no idea if a ‘hard reboot’ (pulling the cord), is more effective in solving problems than a soft reboot (a reboot using the menu).

 

I’ve had this problem now for about 6 weeks.   Rogers sucks. From what I’ve read, this problem CAN be fixed by doing a complete “Restore Factory Settings” on your box – but, of course – you will lose ALL your recordings, and all your Scheduled recordings, and all your fave channels, etc.

 

This is simply unacceptable. It seems obvious that there is a problem with corruption in this box. It also seems obvious that Rogers DOESN’T CARE enough to bother solving it.

 

This major problem that I’ve been having, and the horror experience I’ve had with usability of the NB2 and NB3 leads me to suspect that Rogers DOESN’T WANT to give us a PVR that works well. It is against their financial interests to do so.

 

Why? Because if we can record programs and watch them when WE want – then we are not held hostage and forced to watch commercials. And that’s a big part of how Rogers makes their profits. And not only is Rogers a pipeline that pushes TV to us, they also OWN many TV stations, radio stations, the Blue Jays, the Skydome, cell phone, home phone, etc.

 

There are many ways that Rogers makes more money when we watch more commercials – so Rogers has multiple strategies to coerce us into not avoiding commercials – and I’m firmly convinced that they have INTENTIONALLY crippled the NB 2 and NB 3 in order to push us (as much as they can) into watching TV LIVE – rather than recorded TV (where we can skip commercials).

 

When the NB 2 was introduced, it was SO INCREDIBLY BUGGY, and was missing SO MANY FEATURES present in the SA 8300 box, that I suspected years ago that Rogers was dragging it’s heals in giving us features we wanted. And when the NB 2 first came out, it’s STUNNINGLY poor reliability made using it for anything other than watching live TV a crapshoot.   (I may have gotten the short end of the stick with that box – because I was an early adopter – and I had one of the first boxes – and I USED IT A LOT – and I had many problems with my box that most users never did.)

 

But that brings up my current problem with my NB3 needing to be rebooted an average of 8 to 12 times A DAY. I wonder if that is INTENTIONAL. Does Rogers want to PREVENT us from archiving programs long term? It’s been pointed out that I can solve the problem I have with the box by doing a complete Factory Reset.

 

Rogers has fixed SOME of the bugs (and poor menu design choices) with the NB2 and NB3 – and I’m sure they were FORCED to do so because of THOUSANDS of complaints – but they have not spent nearly enough time making the box work reliably – while at the same time – they keep adding new “features” – most of which are designed to steer us in directions that will provide THEM with added revenue. (Don’t you just love the ‘new’ TV guide listings they switched to a year or two ago – that lack actor descriptions in the movies (so I can never remember if I’ve seen the movie or not) – but their descriptions of the movies are now all fake advertising and flattery and cheap dishonest praise – that is designed to make us ‘buy’ that movie when it is offered to us On Demand.)

 

I notice that there have been few complaints about the fact that we CANNOT remove On Demand channels from our TV guide listings. I don’t know about you – but I spend considerable time every day scanning through the TV show listings – and I don’t appreciate being FORCED to see a screen cluttered channels that I don’t want and will never use. But On Demand pushes added revenue for Rogers.   I REFUSE to watch the On Demand channels that don’t allow me to FF through parts of the program, or through commercials. And the prices Rogers charges for On Demand movies and paid shows is nauseating. I WON’T PAY IT. I already pay them A FORTUNE for the many channels I want.

 

They want to charge me extra for a few On Demand movies? or for Shomi? 

 

But to get back to my point about Rogers owning TV channels, and producing their own content, and providing their own sports content, and pay TV channels – Rogers is deeply involved in multiple revenue streams in addition to simply providing us with TV channels.   Many of those streams benefit them when we are forced to watch commercials.   The companies that give Rogers content don’t want Rogers to allow us to skip commercials.   So Rogers screws up to make their business partners happy.

 

And I’m surprised I don’t hear more complaints about another “conspiracy” Rogers and others are involved in that steers us away from using our PVR’s (and formerly our VCR’s) to record TV and watch the programs we want at our leisure – and that’s the frequent tactic of having live sporting events run long – and end up with all the shows for the rest of the evening start 15 minutes, or a half hour late. You try to record CSI – and because football went long – you end up with a half hour of football at the start of your CSI recording – and you miss the last half hour of your show.

 

I suspect this is just one more technique those in charge of the whole ‘entertainment megalopolix’ use to punish us for trying to record shows and watch them when WE want – rather than watch them live – when we are FORCED to sit through commercials. Call me paranoid – but what do you think?

 

I mean – it would be easy programming with our current PVRs, and TV listings, to give every show a unique identifying number, and if the airing of that show is delayed – the PVR could simply be given the smarts to start recording that show whenever it plays later that evening.

 

But many levels of those producing content don’t want us to have unrestricted access to their content in this manner. They don’t want us to be able to archive their content long term. They don’t want us to skip their commercials.

 

And remember, the media companies TRIED LIKE HECK to make the VCR illegal. They spent zillions on lawyers and lawsuits and lobbyists and backroom dealings to control ‘THEIR content delivery.’

 

But one person in this new thread asked why we consumers don’t stand up for ourselves and why can’t we have the fair access we deserve. And that is simply because Rogers and Hollywood and the big companies have far more influence in the making of the rules and power to control the politicians than we do. They spend millions to get the laws they want about how what we see is delivered to us.

 

It’s similar to the fight customers have been waging to watch content anywhere they want – like on their tablets or phones – but that’s been a big fight that has been only partially won.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 13,942

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

There still must be SOMETHING in the mix wrong there (account, box, signal, etc) that is causing it.

Ocassional reboot? Maybe.

But no one should be having to reboot the box 8-10 times a day.

I have a NB3... had it since first week it was available.  I have to reboot maybe once every 2 weeks, and thats only for a display issue (blank lines in recording listing)

I record usually 5 or so shows a night, and usuually watch + delete 3+..
So not insanely heavy usage, but more than enough.



I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 202

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

It's strange. There are some days when I might go 24 hours with not having to reboot - but other days when I'm rebooting all the time. I can't figure out why the difference - but my issue is the same problem other people have described here.

It seems to be some sort of corruption in the PVR.

It seemed to start with a program that I couldn't delete. I hit delete on a show - and the box 'hung' - with the message .... deleting ..... on the bottom of the screen. I had to reboot to unlock this crash - and the box has been neurotic ever since.
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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 6

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

It has been over a year since I had the reboot to watch recorded programs. I also had an issue with a deleted recording displayed on listing.
No remedy was found when I did a search on this. However, after some deliberation I concluded the most likely cause was corruption in the drive's file structure. As I own my NB3 I had no problem removing the drive and using the manufacturers diagnostic to test it. No fault was found with the mechanics of it. So, I reinstalled the drive and decided to watch all recorded items then reformat the drive. Ooops, that did not work as unit would stop responding after a few presses on the remote. Had to remove the drive and install in one of my computers to reset it to manufacturer default. Once reinstalled into the NB3 the drive was formatted and configured without intervention. I have not had any problem with "reboot" since.

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

Add me to the list. Have encountered issues with this box for almost a year now. Rogers does nothing or is incapable of doing something. This is beyond infuriating. I am asking for a full refund on my cable bill for every month I am facing issues going forward (most likely: every month). I suggest you do the same.

 

I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

I just noticed this thread, as it popped up because of KVR's post.  My experience with this problem predates most of you and I have had the problem escalated to second level tech support since October 21.  I posted my experience in another thread, so I won't bother reposting it here.

 

The only solution to the problem is to do a factory reset of the box.  However, you will lose all your recordings, your scheduled recordings, and preferences.  Here I will explain how to work around the problem so you can minimize the number of reboots that you have to do while you watch your recordings and get to the point where you can tolerate a factory reset.

 

The problem originally occurs with a single recording that either seems to continue for hours, or is interrupted.  Whether a disk error that is not handled by the software causes the problem, or whether the software itself causes the problem is not clear.  Regardless, the bad recording causes corruption in the data stored on the disk.

 

The message "unable to play...because of insufficient resources" will only show up when media shrink is actively compressing your recordings.  You can find out whether media shrink is active by going into diagnostics mode.  Under the media shrink tab, you will be able to see how far media shrink has progressed.  If you can hit play just as media shrink ends, then a recording will play.  The same thing happens after a reboot - if you manage to hit play before media shrink starts, then it will play.  Otherwise you have to wait or reboot and try again.

 

Now media shrink will not start while you are playing recordings, so once you are able to play one recording, media shrink will not start until play ends.  To keep media shrink from starting, you have to pause the current recording before it hits the end, which is usually just before the final credits.  Then go into list and start playing the next recording you want to watch.  The other thing we used to do was play a 3-hour movie when we were going to be away from the TV for a while, which kept media shrink at bay.

 

One other suggestion I have for reboots - we have our boxes plugged in through one of those Christmas light extensions that has a switch on it.  That way you can power off/power on without having to bend over to unplug the box.  Remember that if you power off while a program is recording, you run the risk of file corruption, so it is a vicious circle.

 

I realize this solution is not palatable, and it would be preferable to have the software fixed.  That said, it may be possible for Rogers to improve the error handling so that in future, a disk error does not cause corrupted files.  However, it is unlikely that they can produce a fix to "uncorrupt" files, so a factory reset will be necessary, regardless of whether the software is ever fixed.

 

I have 2 Nextbox 3's, one of which is the box which started giving me trouble last September, which has undergone a factory reset and no longer gives me the "insufficient resources" message.  However, the heavy usage for a PVR starts in September, with more shows being recorded and the hard drive filling up more.  I am waiting to see if I have a recurrence in the next few months.  The advantage of having 2 boxes is that if one of them starts misbehaving, I can swap in the other and do another factory reset without losing anything.

 

I hope this post is of some value.  Believe me, I understand your frustration as it took me many months to try alternative solutions and finally figure out what was going on. 

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 202

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

Thankyou rocksandtrees:  your post was VERY helpful.

 

I've wondered myself why the box would sometimes work - and sometimes not.  It never clicked with me to consider media shrink.  And I wondered why I had to reboot once sometimes to get the box to work again - and other times I had to reboot up to 8 times.

 

It just so happens that my box is rebooting right now.  Your tip was helpful.  I started to play something (anything) the instant the box finished rebooting - and it worked after one reboot.

 

For me - it's been 3 months now - and I've been aware that I'd have to do a factory reset - but I didn't want to lose all the science shows and educational stuff I'd been hoarding (to watch SOME DAY.)  But I was at 90% full when my box started acting up after one particular program 'locked up' and wouldn't let me delete it.  I'm now down to 16% full, and when I hit zero I will give Rogers a call (or before then) and explain to them that all the time I've had to search on the internet while I've watched my box reboot has given me time to research 'cutting the cord.' 

 

I've figured out that I'm pretty stupid to keep my Rogers home phone - given that I can find other VOIP for $4 a month - or some that are even almost free.   And I've spent HOURS listing every show I watch - and I can now simply find those programs on the internet - so Rogers - if you're reading this - you're going to have to offer me a heck of an incentive to stay with you when I watch the rest of my archived programs and get my PVR down to 0% full.

 

Thanks again rocksand... for your very helpful explanation.  Your one post taught me FAR MORE than a bunch of calls to Rogers 'help.'

 

One thing a person who has the same problem may consider, is that when they go away from their PVR for 8 hours or more, and if they want to stop their box from going into media shrink mode - I wonder if they can start to play a long program - and push play/pause in the right manner to get their PVR into playing in slow motion mode - so a 2 hour program may end up taking a LONG time to play - and then when you get home and want to watch something you should be A-OK.

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 304

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

I've commented elsewhere, and discussed with Rogers second level support (no doubt the suggestion went straight into the bin), that one thing we should have under Settings is the ability to DISABLE Media Shrink.  Maybe you don't get the disk usage up high enough to be a concern, maybe you have an external eSATA attached drive (I have a 1TB one on my 8642 and 9865) and have plenty of space and don't need the recording compressed.  What you DO need is the tiny little brains in these underpowered Nextboxes to dedicate what meagre memory they have to responding to your remote commands, playing back your recordings, and recording programs as scheduled - not diverting precious processor time/CPU cycles to a Media Shrink session you probably have no need of.

 

Also a few more tips to reduce the chance of file corruption that could cause this issue.

 

1) NEVER reboot the box during the time of a scheduled recording, or if one is scheduled within the next half hour.  This can lead to those "null/undefined" recordings, and also sometimes missing recording programs or recording under the wrong name (two consecutive programs scheduled on one channel like Tonight Show/Late Night, Tonight Show may not record, Late Night is actually Tonight Show - or vice versa, I can't remember). 

Of course you can't always control when the box reboots if it takes a hissy fit, freezes up and reboots itself, BUT if it does that during a scheduled recording (or with one scheduled within half hour of when the reboot starts), then when it finishes, reboot again as soon as you have at least a 30 minute interval with no scheduled recordings.

 

2) If you don't have one, get a UPS to plug your Nextbox into (or two if you have more than one PVR).  The batteries should last at least 3-4 years.

 

 

I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 152

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings

@neilpalmer400@billmcintyre  I'm glad this information was useful.  It took me 4 months to figure out what was happening.  It is possible that there are other causes for "insufficient resources", but in my case I was able to prove that it always coincided with media shrink.  The thing is, with my "working" boxes, media shrink can run successfully while watching a recording, so something about the file corruption reduces the amount of resources available for all processes.

 

Regarding the playing of long recordings, I have never seen this reported elsewhere, but have you ever noticed that if you start playing a recording and never touch fast forward, page up, or other keys that skip, that playback will stop on its own after about 20 minutes?  Usually that can only happen on PBS, as on other channels you would be skipping commercials within 20 minutes.  You need to watch for that if you are trying to avoid media shrink.

I'm a Trusted Contributor
Posts: 304

Re: Getting tired of rebooting my PVR just so I can watch my recordings


@roxandtreez wrote:

Regarding the playing of long recordings, I have never seen this reported elsewhere, but have you ever noticed that if you start playing a recording and never touch fast forward, page up, or other keys that skip, that playback will stop on its own after about 20 minutes?  Usually that can only happen on PBS, as on other channels you would be skipping commercials within 20 minutes.  You need to watch for that if you are trying to avoid media shrink.


 

I don't recall that happening when watching recordings on my 9865 that were recorded there (I often let recordings play in the background when I'm working, without skipping commercials), BUT (with WHPVR) it happens VERY FREQUENTLY when playing recordings from my 8642 and viewing them via my 9865.  Playback will often freeze, sometimes momentarily, sometimes for 10 seconds or more.  Sometimes you can get it going again by a short rewind then play, other times you have to press Stop, wait an eternity for the pop-up window, then Resume.  It makes the Whole Home PVR nothing but a joke.

 

ALSO, when playing back recordings via the 9865 that are recorded on the 8642, EVERY time you use the "back 10 seconds" button (to left of LIST) it backs up THEN PAUSES.  You have to press Pause or Play twice to get it to start playing again.  Overuse of the "back 10 seconds" or Rewind when playing an 8642 recording via the 9865 will also frequently result in the program jumping back to the start and then you have to Fast Forward to get back to where you were. 

Neither of those things happen when you watch the programs on the 8642 itself, OR if you are viewing them on a 4642.  It's strictly an incompatibility/poor communication problem between the 9865 & 8642.