Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

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Resident Expert
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Posts: 5,997

Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Ok, now for a little technical info that might help.  

First and foremost the CGN3ACR has been accessed by using 192.168.100.1 when the modem is operating in Bridge mode.  So, it is possible in that case to access the DOCSIS WAN signal level and signal to noise ratio data, which is useful for troubleshooting problems.  The CGN3 no longer has that capability as of the firmware update issued in Dec 2014.  Hopefully it will return in a future firmware version.  

It is possible apparently, to mix and match the two modems between the previous Hybrid plans and the new plans.  The CGN3 will work and is accepted for use on the new plans.  The CGN3ACR will work on the Hybrid plans, and after reading through this post, some people may decide to go that route to solve some of the problems with the CGN3.  

The cost to rent the CGN3 under the Hybrid plan is $12.00.
The cost to rent the CGN3ACR under the Hybrid plan is apparently $14.00.

Looking at the Wifi Alliance site, there is a CGN3 and CGNV4 listed. Looking at the U.S. FCC site, there are a number of CGN modems listed, which I have not had time to review yet.  I suspect, given that there is only one CGNV4 shown at the Wifi Alliance site, that the FCC CGNXX submissions are all variations on a theme, so, for example for Rogers, the V4 modem is called the CNG3ACR (FCC ID ??), at Shaw, it appears that its titled the CGNM-2250 (FCC ID: CGNM ?).

The  Industry Canada database contains the following CGNxxx devices:

Model              Certification Number     Approval Date
CGN-RES       10778A-CGN                2013-04-18
CGN2              10778A-CGN2ROG     2013-01-16
CGN2-ROG    10778A-CGN2ROG      2013-09-25
CGN3             10778A-CGN31A          2013-07-17
CGNM            10778A-CGNM             2014-06-12
CGNM-2250   10778A-CGNM             2014-09-10  

So, looking at all of the available sources it would appear that the Rogers CGN3ACR is the most likely the CGNM as listed by Industry Canada, and the Shaw CGNM-2250 is most likely the CGNM-2250 as listed by Industry Canada.  

If anyone is interested in looking at the details, you can run a search at:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/reltel/srch/nwRdSrch.do?lang=eng

Enter Hitron Technologies in the Company name window and CGN in the Model window.

What all of this points to is that there is only one developed model of the CGNV4, and that the wifi alliance certification is most likely applicable to both Rogers and Shaw versions of the modem.

If that is the case, then it appears that there are a couple of very good reasons why some people might, or should be interested.  One is the appearance of 802.11ac on the modem, so for those individuals who might have 802.11ac devices and didn't want to go out and buy a router to support it, switching to this modem should yield higher data rates to those devices.

For anyone who absolutely depends on running a 2.4 Ghz wifi network, the CGNV4 has been tested and certified for 40 Mhz operation on 2.4 Ghz networks with "coexistence mechanisms".  What that means is that anyone who owns a mixed variety of devices, laptops, tablets, USB wifi dongles etc should now see the maximum data rates for all of those devices when they are all running simultaneously on the network.  The CGN3 is known to have problems with mixed device capabilities and it will restrict both, the number of data streams in use and the co-channel bonding required for 40 Mhz wide channel operation.  That restriction limits all device data rates to the rate of the slowest device on the network.  That can be easily seen if you use a USB Wifi dongle in a mixed network.  Low cost dongles can or will be single channel only with limited data rates, as opposed to dual antenna, dual data stream laptops, capable of running at much higher data rates.  This has yet to be proven explicitly with this modem as of yet, but, for anyone who recognizes that they are in this particular situation, exchanging the current CGN3 for the CGN3ACR would be a very interesting test.  If anyone does this, please post your results.

Finally the CGNV4 is shown as supporting concurrent operation of both 2.4 and 5 Ghz networks whereas the CGN3 certificate does not show that.  So, if you use both networks simultaneously and you have had trouble with the modem, perhaps this AC version modem will solve those problems.  Again, if anyone does trade in for this purpose, please post your results.  

Here are the Hitron certification results from the Wifi Alliance web site for anyone interested.  If you read through these, and then read through the certification for an Asus or Netgear router for example, you would see how very simple these modems are in comparison.  There is more data on the certificates, but I've listed the main parts from the certificates.


https://www.wi-fi.org/product-finder-results?keywords=hitron&op=Search&form_build_id=form-HtKnxrPbEd...


CGNV4

Date of Last Certification January 27, 2014

Wi-Fi CERTIFIED™ n
2.4 GHz, 5 GHz - Concurrent
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Short Guard Interval
TX A-MPDU
40 MHz operation in 2.4 GHz, with coexistence mechanisms
40 MHz operation in 5 GHz
RIFS Test

Wi-Fi CERTIFIED™ ac
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz



CGN3-ROG

Date of Last Certification September 05, 2013

Frequency Bands: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz - Switchable

2.4 GHz, 5 GHz - Switchable
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 2.4 GHz
Tx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz
Rx 3 tested Spatial Streams 5 GHz

 



For anyone interested, here is the U.S. FCC search page that can be used to locate reports for the Hitron Technologies devices.  To run a search, type in Hitron Technologies into the Applicant Name entry window and hit the enter key.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm?calledFromFrame=N


So, that's the background info that the specs don't detail.  Small details, but the concurrent network and co-existence mechanisms for 2.4 Ghz networks are important.  If anyone is having issues with wifi networks run by the CGN3, consider what I have presented above as food for thought in exchanging your modem or moving to the newer plans along with the CGN3ACR.

 

 

***Edited Labels***



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I'm a Senior Contributor
Posts: 201

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR


@Datalink wrote:

Ok, now for a little technical info that might help.  
 etc, etc......

_______________________________________________________________

 

I never ceased to be amazed at the expertise and generosity of people in this community. Thank you Datalink for an incredibly thorough and useful analysis.

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 348

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Any major differences in the web UI between the ACR and the older model?  Not that it matters too much to me as I doubt I would ever want to use a Rogers gateway in anything other than bridge mode.

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Posts: 5,997

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

I haven't come across a Rogers vesion of a user manual, but looking at the online instructions there has been a change to the 2.4 and 5 Ghz wifi control interface.  It would appear in both cases that Multiple SSIDs are now allowed, which should mean that guest accounts would be easy to set up and remove.  The 5 Ghz control interface also includes changes to allow 802.11ac networks and 80 Mhz wide channels for those networks.

 

 

Set Up Wireless Network for Hitron CGN3ACR

 

http://www.rogers.com/web/support/internet/home-networking/377?setLanguage=en



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Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

 


@Datalink wrote:


For anyone who absolutely depends on running a 2.4 Ghz wifi network, the CGNV4 has been tested and certified for 40 Mhz operation on 2.4 Ghz networks with "coexistence mechanisms".  What that means is that anyone who owns a mixed variety of devices, laptops, tablets, USB wifi dongles etc should now see the maximum data rates for all of those devices when they are all running simultaneously on the network.  The CGN3 is known to have problems with mixed device capabilities and it will restrict both, the number of data streams in use and the co-channel bonding required for 40 Mhz wide channel operation.  That restriction limits all device data rates to the rate of the slowest device on the network.  That can be easily seen if you use a USB Wifi dongle in a mixed network.  Low cost dongles can or will be single channel only with limited data rates, as opposed to dual antenna, dual data stream laptops, capable of running at much higher data rates.  This has yet to be proven explicitly with this modem as of yet, but, for anyone who recognizes that they are in this particular situation, exchanging the current CGN3 for the CGN3ACR would be a very interesting test.  If anyone does this, please post your results.

 

There was quite a... discussion?... going on about this in particual a while back, correct?

Its good to know that this unit, hopefully then has fixed that particular problem. Smiley Happy



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Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Wow, great post! Thanks for all the info @Datalink

Resident Expert
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Posts: 5,997

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Gdkitty, you correct about the long discussion.  This should solve that particular problem but I won't be satisfied until someone can post a test result using known single and dual data stream and single and dual channel devices, and the test indicates that all devices operate at their max data rates when they are running simultaneously.  That will be the ultimate proof that this has been solved.



I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 348

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

By the way, if anyone has a large house and wants to set up a prosumer Wifi network to leverage off of your Rogers internet service I would highly recommend the Ubiquity Unifi line of WAPs.  These cost about $100 each and look rather like smoke detectors and are meant to be ceiling mounted.  They are powered by PoE and they come with PoE injectors if you don't have that in a switch.

 

They come with good software that allows you to manage your network, see who is connected, set up Guest accounts, etc.

 

I have three of these in my house - the only downside to this model is that it doesn't do AC, just B,G,N.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 75

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR

Can these (CGN3 or CGN3ACR) compete with stand alone routers for range and the like or is the best option still bridge mode + separate router?

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Posts: 348

Re: Technical reasons to move to the new CGN3ACR


@Hwaiting wrote:

Can these (CGN3 or CGN3ACR) compete with stand alone routers for range and the like or is the best option still bridge mode + separate router?


My personal opinion is no, they can't compete (I am assuming that the CGN3ACR is the same as the CGN3 except for the addition of 802.11ac).

 

Issues with the CGN3 (I could be wrong on some of these):

Often doesn't work with VOIP lines unless you do additional configuration - this was the case for my Vonage phone line.

Port forwarding is limited to a set number of ports and some ports can't be forwarded.

No VPN functionality.

Lack of QoS functionality.

No Guest SSID (this may have been added to the ACR).

No traffic monitoring.

Inability to add routing rules.

No parental controls to set time limits for internet usage by client.

No DNS filtering to prevent access to non-child content.

Inability to install third party firmware.