Suffering Packet loss

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 12

Re: Suffering Packet loss

Is anyone from Rogers going to reply? My previous post was a new thread and it ended up getting moved to this one. 

 

My net seemed fine during the weekdays, although I don't know what it looked like during the day. Today, this is what I'm dealing with yet again.

 

Hello? Rogers? Is it too hard for you guys to even give me a status update?

 

7.png

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,049

Re: Suffering Packet loss

I'm not a Rogers employee, but, perhaps I can help. 

 

1.  Is this pingplot done via ethernet or wifi?  You're showing 20% packet loss just getting to the router, which is very unusual to see.

 

2.  If its via ethernet, can you briefly describe your wired network.  Please indicate if you are using commercial Cat 5e / 6 cabling or house ethernet (Cat 5e  ?).

 

3.  If its via wifi, is this via 2.4 or 5 Ghz network?  And, if it is via wifi, have you looked at your wifi environment with inSSIDer to see what other networks you are competing with?  If you haven't done so already, load inSSIDer on your laptop, which is a wifi monitoring application.  When loaded on a dual band laptop, inSSIDer will monitor both 2.4 and 5 Ghz networks that can be detected by your laptop.  Have a look to see what you're competing with in both bands.  The program link below is for the last freebie version.  It doesn't display the 802.11ac networks in use in the 5 Ghz band.  There is a newer licenced version is out now that will handle 802.11ac networks, and which will work on a 802.11n laptop.  The new version will read the broadcast management frames and display the 802.11ac networks that are running in the 5 Ghz band.  If you use 5 Ghz networks, its worth the $20 U.S. to buy, so that you can see all of the 5 Ghz networks that are in use.

http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5936-inssider.html

 

 

Aside from some high jitter numbers onroute, the ping times to the end target actually aren't that bad. 

 



Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 12

Re: Suffering Packet loss

1. Pingplotter is being done via Ethernet, over a powerline adapter. However it's just as bad over Wifi. I have a pretty good router (RT-AC66U). Results are the same even directly connected to the modem.

 

I'm not really sure why Pingplotter is showing packetloss to the router, when I ping the router it's not showing anything. Comparison image below

8.png

 

Also the packetloss is happening again this morning. It seems to go away/reduce significantly after around 3-4pm like yesterday and last week. This is basically a regular occurance at this point.

 

This is a 6 hour graph of what it looked like yesterday:

9.png

 

 

And here's a 6 hour graph at the time I'm posting this (Sunday afternoon)

10.png

 

So as you can see, it starts around 11am or later and usually stops around 4pm or later. I don't know if  this happens on weekdays since I'm not home during these times.

 

 

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 4

Re: Suffering Packet loss

I am really tired of this to start things off

 

So ever since construction was being done very close to me on underground wires I have had terrible Wired/Wireless Connection issues with my internet (could just be a coincidence). I disconnect from any game on any computer i own all the time, and web pages often take ages to load. I have swapped coax cables, extended them, used a asus router along side, factory reset countless times, force update interval on ddns is 1 week, firewall typical, time setting is correct. I dont know what esle to do but to look else where that i have in mind if this isnt resolved real soon.

 

22.PNG

 22.PNG

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 693000000 256QAM 7.800 23 40.366
2 561000000 256QAM 10.700 2 40.946
3 567000000 256QAM 10.800 3 40.946
4 573000000 256QAM 11.300 4 40.946
5 579000000 256QAM 10.900 5 40.946
6 585000000 256QAM 11.100 6 40.946
7 591000000 256QAM 11.000 7 40.946
8 597000000 256QAM 10.400 8 40.946
9 603000000 256QAM 10.200 9 40.946
10 609000000 256QAM 10.400 10 40.946
11 615000000 256QAM 10.800 11 40.946
12 621000000 256QAM 10.700 12 40.946
13 633000000 256QAM 10.200 13 40.366
14 639000000 256QAM 9.600 14 40.366
15 645000000 256QAM 10.000 15 40.946
16 651000000 256QAM 11.300 16 40.366
17 657000000 256QAM 11.100 17 40.366
18 663000000 256QAM 11.000 18 40.946
19 669000000 256QAM 11.500 19 40.946
20 675000000 256QAM 10.900 20 40.366
21 681000000 256QAM 9.900 21 40.366
22 687000000 256QAM 8.400 22 40.946
23 555000000 256QAM 10.600 1 40.366
24 699000000 256QAM 7.800 24 40.946
Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID BandWidth
1 23700235 ATDMA - 64QAM 34.250 2 6400000
2 38595961 ATDMA - 64QAM 38.250 3 3200000
3 30595844 ATDMA - 64QAM 36.500 1 6400000

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 15

Re: Suffering Packet loss

Interpreting PingPlotter Packet Loss Data?

 

We're having frequent episodes of very slow network response - i.e. web pages take much longer than normal to load, if they load at all. I've called Rogers numerous times - they sent out a tech to checkout things the first time, but he found nothing wrong with the local network, and the situation was not resolved. On subsequent calls, the tech has connected to the modem, but nothing was amiss as the problem had resolved itself while I waited on hold.

 

Two days I downloaded PingPlotter and left it running to gather data.

 

Yesterday was a particularly bad day for the network, so I called Rogers again. The tech was trying to point the finger at some possible issue in our local Ethernet cabling, so after the call ended I temporarily connected the modem directly to our main computer (bypassing the switch), and disconnected the rest of the local network. The problem reoccured later in the day, which proves that the local network is not the root cause.

 

This morning I fiddled with the display options in PingPlotter to show packet loss at hops 1, 2 and last, and I think I have evidence that the packet loss is not occurring in our home network, but is occurring between the modem and the next upstream node. Is that the correct way to interpret this plot?  

 

If so, I think that means the problem could be in the coax between the modem and the connection point in the basement, or in the coax between the house and the network line running down our road, or in the connection box at the road.  Comments?

 

20160818-0724-30mn-www.google.com IP removed.png

 

Edit - we've got Ignite 100U service, and a CGN3 modem.

 

Thanks for your comments and advice,

 

Kevin

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,049

Re: Suffering Packet loss

@khorton you are correct.  At some point between the modem and the Cable Modem Termination System (line 2), you have packet loss.  That could exist internally as you indicated, between the modem and splitter or connector in the basement, or, between the basement splitter/connector and the neighborhood node, which is the CMTS.  You could rule out the internal network by parking the modem downstairs as a test and run pingplotter when the modem is up and running.  If you see the same packet loss come up, then you would rule out the internal network.  Note that you would have to know that the incoming cable doesn't run anywhere near an electric motor or near any electrical cables that could draw a substantial amount of current.  Furnace motors come to mind.

 

When you see packet loss like that, that is the best time to call tech support and ask the CSR to run a signal check on the modem, looking specifically for packet loss and noise.  Ask the CSR to check the noise history for the last 24 hours to see what comes up.  Presumably, the CSR would detect the same packet loss that you are seeing, and arrange for a tech visit.  Ask the CSR to check for packet loss for your neighbors as well, as you would all be connected to the same local tap.  There is a good chance that this also affects your neighbors as well.  

 

What you can do with pingplotter is copy the line 2 IP address and paste it into the top address bar and let the application run.  Now you're pinging the CMTS, so you don't have to play around with the display to show that connection point.  The target at this point is to identify the packet loss issue with tech support, check for noise, and see if your neighbors are having the same issue.  It might be a noise issue generated by one of your neighbors backfeeding a signal of some type into the network, causing problems for the whole neighborhood.  If so, that will take some time to track down.  

 

Note that you also have high ping times showing in that image.  From that I'm assuming that you're on a Casa Systems CMTS.  To confirm that, log into the modem, navigate to the STATUS .... DOCSIS WAN page and see how many downstream channels you have.  20 channels equates to a Cisco Systems CMTS, 24 equates to a Casa Systems CMTS.  You could have 32 channels if you were running a gigabit CGNM-3552 modem.  The other confirmation is to navigate to the DOCSIS EVENTS page and look for the following sequence in the log:  CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:XX:XX:XX.  That sequence indicates a Casa Systems CMTS.

 

The change over from a Cisco Systems CMTS to a Casa Systems CMTS is recent, brought in to support gigabit rates and other future goodies that we're not aware of as of yet.  An unexpected problem has arisen between the Casa CMTS and the Hitron modem that is causing high ping times to the CMTS.  This also has a side effect of introducing high ping times to anywhere beyond the CMTS as well.  Rogers, Casa Systems and Hitron are working on the problem.  I haven't seen any news recently so I don't know where the investigation or solutions are at.  All this to say that tech support can't help with the high ping times.  Thats an engineering issue that is progressing.  Tech support can however help with the packet loss, so thats the approach to take for now.  

 

Hope this helps 



Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,049

Re: Suffering Packet loss

@AHxCode, your downstream signal levels are pretty high, and you have one upstream channel which is just under the normal range.  The signal to noise levels are ok.  

 

Typically the signal levels are 0 dBmV for the downstream signals with a signal to noise ratio of 36 to 40 dB.  The upstream are normally in a 36 to 40 dBmV range.  

 

Call tech support and ask the CSR to run a signal check on the modem and check for packet loss as well.  I would think that the high levels will result in a tech visit, but, I suspect that all he or she will do is install a signal attenuator to drop the downstream levels by about 9 dBmV.  That should also push the upstream levels up by 9 dBmV as well.  That would resolve the signal issue, but I don't know if it will take care of any packet loss.  

 

Please read my comments in the above post regarding high ping times to the CMTS, as you are on a Casa systems CMTS.  

 

One suggestion I would have is the following, which will allow you to check for packet loss.  Load pingplotterpro from www.pingplotter.com.  It will run in PRO mode for 14 days before it kicks down to Freebie mode if you don't buy the intermediate or advanced licence.  When you have that loaded, and started, right click on the top title bar to bring up the column menu.  Select MAX and JTTR to display those columns and drag those columns right so that their sitting beside the MIN column.  In the Focus drop down menu on the upper right, select ALL for now so that it holds and displays the extreme values of the MIN, MAX, Jitter and Packet loss data and averages the ping times from the time that its selected.  This will show if at some point you have packet loss problems, even if that comes and goes.  Then start a test session out to something like google.ca. and hit the green "Go" button.  Drag the bottom area up to the bottom of the data area to expand the scaling for that lower data area. Right click on the lower area and set the display time for 5 minutes.  Let that run for five minutes, filling the lower display area.  Then, select Edit .... Copy as Image. Dump the clipboard contents to something like MS paint, wipe out the line 1 address as it will most likely be an IPV6 address for your modem and then save that image.  Run another test but this time change the Focus time in the upper right to 30 seconds.  To start that, hit the down arrow next to the pause button and select "Reset and Restart".  Let that run for a minute or two.  This will show if you have ongoing packet loss problems as the data lookback for the upper data area is only 30 seconds instead of all of the data. Then run the same Edit .... Copy as image routine...... If you see any packet loss shown in the packet loss column at any time, copy that image and save it and post that data. Thats what I'm interested at this point.

 

Insert those images into a post and indicate which Focus time is applicable..

 

 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 15

Re: Suffering Packet loss

@Datalink - thank you very much for the extremely useful info.

 

[quote]When you see packet loss like that, that is the best time to call tech support and ask the CSR to run a signal check on the modem, looking specifically for packet loss and noise.[/quote]

 

At the moment, I've swtiched the modem back to bridged mode, as I need port forwarding to work, and I've never succeeded to get it working on the CGN3.  Can a Rogers CSR access the modem if I have it bridged?

 

Should port forwarding work on a CGN3, with the latest firmware?  If so, I'll dig deeper, and open a different thread if necessary to get some assistance on that issue.

 

[quote]

Note that you also have high ping times showing in that image.  From that I'm assuming that you're on a Casa Systems CMTS.  To confirm that, log into the modem, navigate to the STATUS .... DOCSIS WAN page and see how many downstream channels you have.  20 channels equates to a Cisco Systems CMTS, 24 equates to a Casa Systems CMTS.  You could have 32 channels if you were running a gigabit CGNM-3552 modem.  The other confirmation is to navigate to the DOCSIS EVENTS page and look for the following sequence in the log:  CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:XX:XX:XX.  That sequence indicates a Casa Systems CMTS.

[/quote]

 

Are you refering to the ping times to the modem, or ping times from the modem to the CMTS?

 

I checked for the signatures of a Casa CMTS when I had the modem running in gateway mode.  I only had 20 channels, and I didn't see CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:XX:XX:XX in the logs.  I concluded that I still had a Cisco CMTS.  I'm living in a quasi-rural part of Ottawa - our local network infrastructure appears to be a bit out of date, so I doubt they've pushed us to the Casa CMTS yet.  The best Bell offers in this area is 5 Mbps down, so Rogers isn't being pushed to upgrade.

 

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,049

Re: Suffering Packet loss

@khorton, yup, the CSR can interrogate the modem regardless of the modem operating mode. 

 

Port forwarding should work, but, the modem only allows 9 port forwarding rules from what I understand, so if you have multiple devices that require port forwarding, you could run short of rule space fairly fast.  The NAT on the modem is also strict, which causes a lot of problems with port forwarding.  So, switching to Bridge mode and using your own router is a much easier and reliable way to carry out any port forwarding that you need to do.  

 

With a Cisco CMTS you would probably see one of the following sequences in your Docsis Events Log:

 

1. CMTS-MAC=00:05:00
2. CMTS-MAC=00:12:43
3. CMTS-MAC=00:14:f1
4. CMTS-MAC=00:1e:be
5. CMTS-MAC=00:1f:ca
6. CMTS-MAC=e0:2f:6d      Note: there may be other Cicso MAC addresses
                                                             as well which are not on this list yet.

 

The ping times that I was referring to are between the modem and the CMTS, but, looking back at your pingplot, I see that you also have a high max time and occasional high ping times just getting to the router or modem, whichever was in operation.  The average time is also a little high. Those times to the modem or router should be 1 ms or less across the board.  Was this taken via ethernet or wifi?  Your average ping time on line 2, to the CMTS is a little high, personal opinion.  I'm comparing that to when we were on a Cisco CMTS, where the average time was 10 ms.  So, my guess at this point is that the packet loss is leading to the higher than normal average and max ping times.  

 

Fwiw, we're in Stittsville.  We've been switched to the Casa CMTS, as has Kanata, and further south I believe.  Can't vouch for anything further east or north.  I would expect your area to change fairly soon to a Casa CMTS, and when that happens, it will make the average and max ping time worse than they already are.  So, that puts a little impetus on solving the packet loss issue before the switch over, so that you have a better idea of what the true ping times are like.  What was the Focus time that you had set in the upper right hand corner of pingplotter, Auto or some other setting?  Just curious at this point.  



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 15

Re: Suffering Packet loss

Thanks for the info.

 

I never got a single port forward rule to work with the CGN3.  I gave up pretty quickly when we first got it and just bridged the thing.  I tried again recently, with the now much newer firmware, and I still struck out.  Maybe I had something was dorked up with the NAT.

 

Ping times to modem - those times were with Ethernet.  I installed a pfSense router today, running a PC Engines APU2C4 CPU, and was very happy to see the ping times to the router average 0.3 to 0.4ms.  The ping times to the CMTS now average about 18ms, even without any packet loss.  Getting port forwarding to work on pfSense was "fun", as the docs assume everyone using them is a network guru, and I'm far from that.  Thanks to Google, I figured it out finally.

 

I think the focus time for that plot was Auto, but I'm not 100% sure anymore, as I was experimenting with different values as I figured out the program.