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SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

When on TekSavvy, I used smtp.teksavvy.com as my SMTP relay server from a Postfix service on Linux.

 

I am trying to do the same thing with Rogers Ignite. There are some hints on this forum, but none of them work.  I am receiving mail fine but cannot send mail from my own domain running on the server at home. 

 

Any ideas on this?

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

 

***Edited Labels***

23 REPLIES 23

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

RogersTony
Moderator
Moderator

Hello, @ve3nrt 

 

Thank you for posting your inquiry to the community.

 

You've reached the right place to find a solution. I will tag in a few of our resident experts who may be able to provide some insight on this.

 

@57

@-G- 

@Datalink 

@Gdkitty 

@Pauly

 

We hope that you'll be able to find a solution.

 

RogersTony

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

Gdkitty
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Yeah since Rogers doesn’t allow other smtp from theirs, you would need to use the Rogers smtp server info
On my phone so can’t easily pull it up, but if you look up the pop/smtp server info, that is what you need to use server wise. (Requires ssl, specific port, etc)
The one thing you will need for this is the user/password for a Rogers email.
So if you haven’t set one up yet, will need to set up at least one.
AND as well, you will need to set up the ‘app’ password for this. So it’s a different password that the main one for say the webmail access.

These app passwords are there (like blocking other smtp servers) to help prevent things. That it locks the password to be from one source, someone can’t steal and use your login to use the Rogers smtp server elsewhere.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

Thanks Gdkitty. I have created an account on the Yahoo mail system with a rogers.com address. When I try to generate an application password I get the message

 

Generating an app password is currently unavailable but don’t worry you can still access your email via Web Browser at mail.rogers.com. Additionally, you can integrate iPhone & Android devices. To see how, Set up a Yahoo! account on a device - Rogers.

If and when I manage to create a password would I use this instead of my mail password? If not I wouldn't know where to put it in the Postfix setup. 

I'm using port 465 on the relay server smtp.mail.yahoo.com. It is rejecting my messages so far.

 

Chris

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Having to send mail from your own domain can be a challenge if not set up correctly. Because  this is a service that is not provided by rogers, then unfortunately rogers can not support this for you, however since you have an email with your domain then you might have support thru them.

 

I had my own domain for like 20+ years. I simply created mailboxes thru my hosting provider and when I send mail I use their own server not rogers, not techsavvy, not anyone else.

 

you should not be using rogers server to send mail from another domain

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

Pauly, thanks for your reply.

>>> Having to send mail from your own domain can be a challenge if not set up correctly.

Agreed - it it weren't, then I wouldn't be asking questions on this forum.

>>> Because  this is a service that is not provided by rogers, then unfortunately rogers can not support this for you,

What do you mean by "this"? I'm looking for an SMTP relay server that will be accepted by the most common email providers. I'm not looking for support for my domain. 

>> I simply created mailboxes thru my hosting provider and when I send mail I use their own server not rogers, not techsavvy, not anyone else.

My email server is in my basement.. I didn't use TekSavvy mail either, but TekSavvy provides an SMTP relay so I can originate email. Right now, I can only send email within my own LAN, and the inability to diable DHCP on my modem is even interfering with that.

>> you should not be using rogers server to send mail from another domain

Please explain this. Why shouldn't I? 

 

Right now, my problem is still that I keep getting the message that app password is unavailable. I don't know whether that is some anomaly with my account, a problem at Rogers, or something else. It would be nice if someone else tried it to see if they get the same message.

 

Chris

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Rogers has partnered with Yahoo! for their internet. This means that their mail server is likely using resources from yahoo.   Even though you have your own server in your basement, it looks like your trying to bounce your mail off of Rogers server, they are having problems right now with creating app passwords so everyone and their dog is not happy with rogers and they likely cant fix this issue because they do not own the server, yahoo does and the ball is in their court.   Either way even if you have your own internet web server, you should not need to "bounce" or "relay" your emails off another providers server, your own domain should be independant of your local isp and should not rely on them for that very reason if you move to another location or province it should work, you probably need to contact your host to find out how to send emials from your own domain, maybe its a money issue, maybe u need to pay them more for the feature? but definitely asking rogers for help is not  right and not supported.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@ve3nrt wrote:

Right now, my problem is still that I keep getting the message that app password is unavailable. I don't know whether that is some anomaly with my account, a problem at Rogers, or something else.


To expand upon what was stated by @Pauly , there should be no Rogers or Yahoo involvement if you're setting up your own e-mail domain.  That's the whole purpose of doing so - to avoid all the service providers.

 

As for the App PW issue, it has been discussed extensively on this forum for 4 months - see link below:

 

https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Internet/Can-t-create-App-password/m-p/509872/highlight/true#M...

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

@57 because of spambots, connections from private email servers on ISP networks are rarely accepted, thus the use of a relay server. That's why I used one in my previous service.

I guess I can't take @Gdkitty advice to create an app password until some indeterminate time when the problem is fixed. Thanks for letting me know about that. 

I'll look elsewhere to see if I can find an smtp server I can use. Too bad as it will no doubt add to my monthly operating cost.

 

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@ve3nrt  Just curious... how are you even receiving email?  I thought that Rogers would have blocked inbound SMTP.

 

As for self-hosting email, really, the only reliable way to do is to have a business Internet account, where you can get a static IP address, set up DNS properly, set up DMARC, DKIM, SPF, etc. so your outgoing email does not get treated as spam by any of the service providers, and take care not to do anything that will get your IP address blacklisted.

 

Is there also any reason why you cannot go with a third-party service to host your email?  One that is very privacy-focused, if that is your primary concern?

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

@-G- Apparently they do not. I know I've had port 25 blocked on my cell phone, but not on any home ISP service I've had. 

I had no problem sending email via the TekSavvy SMTP server, and I would think that if a little company in Chatham can provide such a service, Rogers could too. It is a very simple setup and runs on a UPS-backed Raspberry Pi. I use it for notifications on my internal LAN which is one reason I host it myself. The other is that I can create a virtual user for every service on which I register an account. That lets me identify any company that has released my email address into the wild. And yes, I could use an infrastructure cloud provider, assuming they themselves don't get blocked.

I told the sales rep about the applications I ran at home, and he didn't suggest a business account. I found out recently he uses Fibe at home. I don't know if Bell offers SMTP relay but at least they allow DHCP to be disabled on their modems (that's another thread on this forum). Unfortunately no Fibe at my location so Rogers is the one-and-only Gb ISP here. Also, I don't run a business, although before I retired I contracted a business line from Rogers in downtown Toronto. 

I had static IP with TekSavvy as well, for that matter.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
So I have a personal domain for many years and checked how I send and receive mail from it. I am using Gmail server for my SMTP and IMAP not Rogers not bell not cogeco not shaw not Telus but I repeat I'm using Gmail server since my domain is managed by google and I pay them. You should use who ever manages your domain.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@ve3nrt wrote:

@-G- Apparently they do not. I know I've had port 25 blocked on my cell phone, but not on any home ISP service I've had. 

I had no problem sending email via the TekSavvy SMTP server, and I would think that if a little company in Chatham can provide such a service, Rogers could too.


Rogers outsources their customer email to a third-party, currently Yahoo.  Providing that service to a large customer base is a pain from an administrative, legal and support perspective and Rogers has chosen not to do it themselves.

 

I am actually surprised that TekSavvy provided an open (or semi-open) SMTP relay.  Most companies lock that access down completely.

 

It is a very simple setup and runs on a UPS-backed Raspberry Pi. I use it for notifications on my internal LAN which is one reason I host it myself. The other is that I can create a virtual user for every service on which I register an account. That lets me identify any company that has released my email address into the wild. And yes, I could use an infrastructure cloud provider, assuming they themselves don't get blocked.


FYI, running a server of any kind on a Rogers Residential Internet is actually forbidden under the Terms of Service -- see Acceptable Use Policy: https://www.rogers.com/support/terms/terms-of-service-acceptable-use-policy-and-privacy-policy

 

See item xvi under Prohibited Activities.

 

 

This is not something that they enforce aggressively but it is something that you should be aware of nevertheless.

 

I told the sales rep about the applications I ran at home, and he didn't suggest a business account. I found out recently he uses Fibe at home. I don't know if Bell offers SMTP relay but at least they allow DHCP to be disabled on their modems (that's another thread on this forum). Unfortunately no Fibe at my location so Rogers is the one-and-only Gb ISP here.


I don't know whether or not Bell offers an SMTP relay.  They used to outsource their customer email service to Microsoft but then repatriated that service several years ago.

 

 

One other question: Who did you obtain your domain name from?  Do they offer hosting services of any kind?  If so, they may be willing to be your SMTP relay.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

Well the Rogers rep sold me the service on the basis of running my own server so if they want to pull the plug they can, I guess. It is very hard to distinguish between clients and servers anyway, as lots of client software includes some kind of server, especially SQLite and similar. My email server is just for me, so I doubt they would care.

I registered my domain through netfirms.com, and they seem to have an smtp relay. Thanks & +1 to @-G- for that suggestion. I am going to try it. If that works, I'll mark this as solved, even though its sort of a workaround.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

Sadly, Netfirms claims not to have an smtp-relay server. There are commercial services often with a free tier but they are designed for email marketers, not for a simple outbound mail relay. The bounceback I got from sending to a gmail account is pertinent, I think, as it recommends using the ISP's smtp relay service.

 

host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2607:f8b0:4004:c08::1b]

    said: 550-5.7.1 [2607:fea8:921f:3c00:b31:5436:74f7:9b7a] The IP you're

    using to send 550-5.7.1 mail is not authorized to send email directly to

    our servers. Please 550-5.7.1 use the SMTP relay at your service provider

    instead. Learn more at 550 5.7.1

    https://support.google.com/mail/?p=NotAuthorizedError

    z15-20020a05620a100f00b007672e218ce8 si1632055qkj.264 - gsmtp (in reply to

    end of DATA command)

(emphasis mine).

The biggest problem I have is that I auto-forward my wife's inbound email to her outlook.com address, and now this is stuck in transit. 

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

We should not assume that because one provider offered a SMTP as a good will gesture on their network that the competitors such as rogers or bell or who ever else all do the same, this is something people must understand that not all companies offer the same services and features, if you liked the services teksavvy offered well unfortunately that is your only hope since rogers don't have an open smtp,  to be quite honest with you, no amount of escalating will enable you this service.  you might as well shop around for something that suits your needs.

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

Yes you are no doubt correct @Pauly Unfortunately the sales rep, who I found afterwards doesn't even use a Rogers service, assured me there would be no problem with the environment that I run, based on his own experience with his home server.

 

And as pointed out before, to get >100mbits, there is exactly 1 provider available on my street. "Good will gesture" (vs. providing a valuable service to customers) is unfortunately about right - as when you are the only provider you get to dictate your terms.

 

What I was hoping for, on this forum, was perhaps to find someone who had managed to work around the same problem, rather than being told that it cannot be done. Probably moving my mail server to an infrastructure cloud provider is my only option, as long as they have an smtp-relay service themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@ve3nrt Looks like you may be able to get this working using Fastmail as your email provider:

 

https://tech.chrishardie.com/2020/smtp-relay-through-fastmail-from-postfix-on-macos-mojave/

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

Thanks @-G- I'll look into that.

Meanwhile, I've found how to release the stalled email to a local account on my server. Ascript could do all of them at once, but this is how to do one of them.

1. List the stalled email: sudo postqueue -p

If a single destination address is desired, add the pipe: | grep 'user@domain' -B 2

2. With the mail identified using 10 digit hex identifiers, copy each email into a file: sudo postcat -qbh 506A17FEB1 > email.eml (in this example 506A17FEB1 is an example of an identifier)

3. Then send it to a local recipient on the email server: sendmail chris < email.eml

4. Delete the message from the server: sudo postsuper -d 506A17FEB1

 

Chris

 

 

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

Pauly
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

This also has nothing to do with Rogers Internet.  People need to understand where to draw the line when it comes to asking for help.  You got some helpful advice from rogers but think of this as a goodwill gesture. Rogers agents are not trained in this field and will often not be able to help you out any further.

 

Re: SMTP Relay Server Setup

ve3nrt
I plan to stick around

>> This also has nothing to do with Rogers Internet.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. The issues I've been having are a consequence of moving to Rogers Internet. Just because they are peripheral to your concept of what should be part of an ISP ecosystem, does not make them irrelevant to me - especially as I was misled by Rogers sales.

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