Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 22

Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Hello,

 

First and foremost, mods, please don't merge this post with the "Throttling RTMP" thread. That thread has gone unanswered long enough (10+ pages) and this issue needs to be addressed by a Rogers employee. Believe me, I am not trying to be passive aggressive, but whats the point of telling people to reach out to the community forums if posts with effort put into them are just buried into inactive posts?

 

My problem can be best described as follows:

I am unable to maintain a consistent upload bitrate stream to Twitch (i.e. I am the broadcaster, not to be confused with tuning into Twitch streams). I struggle to maintain even a 5k upload bitrate to Twitch on a 150/15 plan.

Many other community members have been suffering the same issues.

DSLReports members reporting the same thing (many other threads like it).

Here is a fairly large Twitch streamer who also suffers from the same issues on the Rogers network.

 

I believe I have ruled out any hardware related issues because

  • I have swapped out my modem twice (CGN2 -> CGN3ACSMR -> CGNM-3552, so unless they're all busted, I've done my due diligence)
  • I have tried the same settings on another computer
  • I have tried different versions of OBS, the logs all explicitly state that the frames are dropped solely due to connection issues (as opposed to skipped frames, which are caused by insufficient processing power)
  • I have tried directly connecting my machines to both the modem in default gateway mode, as well as an Archer C7 into the bridged modem
  • Most importantly, streaming to YouTube and Facebook is flawless, i.e. I can hold an 8k upload bitrate to those platforms with zero problems for extended periods of time (which likely rules out any Puma6 related problems, as all three of the streaming platforms mentioned make use of RTMP)

This likely leaves two culprits (perhaps more, please feel free to leave any other ideas):

  1. This is an issue with Rogers throttling Twitch ingest traffic, or there is a problem with the routing of Twitch ingest bound traffic
  2. This is an issue on Twitch's end (Twitch ingest server problems are unheard of, and they have officially stated that there is no limit to reasonable bitrates to their ingest servers. Moreover, in the past, Rogers community members have found that the use of VPNs solved their problems completely, although it appears that Rogers has found a way to "fix" that

The farthest that talking to livechat has gotten me is a tech visit, but what's the point of the tech visit? My signals are well within spec. The tech is just going to tell me that my connection looks fine and it's on Twitch's end. Even if it is a case of throttling and/or routing issues, what is one customer complaint going to do when it's a problem of this magnitude?

 

All of my friends who are also Rogers customers are unable to stream to Twitch because of the issues mentioned. All of my friends using Bell have no problems streaming to Twitch.

 

Ever since Bell laid fibe in my neighbourhood, they've been sending reps door-to-door twice a month or so, and they offered 300/300 for 60 bucks (not permanently, the price skyrockets after a year as usual).

 

I know it's not sweat off anyone's backs if I switch, but I've been with Rogers for five years now, and was recently offered a seemingly good deal when I called to upgrade (I thought I could finally broadcast with 15Mb upload). Rogers has been excellent in every other regard, and I want to make this work. However, none of the technical support live chat people have any answers, the network engineer "signal testing" always comes up empty-handed, and now the last avenue I can try (the Community Forums) has no answers as well.

 

Is this just a case of employees not admitting that Rogers is throttling because it's downright illegal and a legal liability?

 

Hopefully this post isn't just slapped onto the other one. Despite all of the things I've tried, questions I've asked, and people I've reached out to, no one knows the cause and/or doesn't want to talk about it.

I'm all out of options and just want to reach out for help one last time.

 

Any ideas, suggestions to try, or help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

***Edited Labels***

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 14,251

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Not a rogers employee here, etc..

But from your listing of things there.. and some of the semi findings/solutions..
I would tend to lean towards a ROUTING issue than throttling.
Mostly from the fact that that going through a VPN, your changing potentially from where its connecting to the servers from, and taking another route.



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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 22

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Thanks for your suggestion.

 

How would I go about testing if it is a routing issue? I ran some PingPlotter tests to each of the each of their ingest servers (reminder that only Twitch is problematic):

 

 

I'm not too sure on this, but wouldn't another explanation be that VPNs encrypt data so that ISPs are unable to throttle and/or properly apply traffic shaping?

 

In both cases, whether it's a routing issue, or a throttling issue.. what would you recommend is the best course of action to get someone to look at it?

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 7,005

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Just to add a couple of comments here, your Pingplotter plots show excessive packet loss for the modem and second hop.  That's caused by a modem timing issue and results in Pingplotter displaying false packet loss indications.  To confirm that, you can run a command line ping test to those same addresses.  They should result in no, or next to no packet loss.  

 

The packet loss at the Twitch address leads me to think that the server is set to ignore ICMP pings, and as a result the loss result is 100%.  Thats not a surprise.  Looking at the routing, from your modem to the Twitch address, its all Rogers, that means that there is a problem with the modem or a problem with the Rogers / Twitch interface.  Given the fact that you've indicated no problems streaming to Youtube or Facebook at high rates, I'm wondering if Twitch is using some variant of the RTMP protocol that the modem isn't processing correctly.  Only Twitch would know that, or, if anyone compared the upstream data for all destinations, any differences should be evident.  That would take a Wireshark monitoring session and data comparison to figure it out.  Beyond that, my thoughts would be that there is some issue at the Rogers / Twitch interface point that should be addressed.  Its a pretty short path from modem to Twitch, so there shouldn't be much to look at.  I'm wondering if all of the servers are actually showing up in that plot.  Rogers uses Cogent to carry a good portion of its data, so, is there a possibility that the data stream bound for Twitch is looping thru the U.S., without showing up in the path, and if so, is that causing some issues?  Only the network staff would be able to answer that question.  

 

I've asked @RogersGordon to have a look at your earlier post.  Can't make any promises on his behalf, but, I'm hoping that his arrival back in the forums will help with issues such as this. 



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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 39

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Fairly decent sized streamer here that had to quit because of this.

Your only option is to go to Bell, I've dealt with this for 2 years now.

There is no solution to it, If I had Bell fibe in my area I would switch instantly.

I'm surprised you're still posting here honestly.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 22

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Yes, it is as you suspect, pinging the modem and router through command prompt yields normal ping results. The final Twitch hop is probably just set up to drop ICMP pings.

 

I sent an e-mail to Twitch asking about any potential issues/incompatibilities about 3 weeks ago, I have yet to receive a reply.. so I don't think I'll have a way to confirm if Twitch's RTMP differs in any way from the others. I'm not familiar with Wireshark either, I'd be willing to learn though.

 

That is an interesting point about potential problematic hops not showing up on the the plots, I didn't know that could happen.

 

Thank you for your advice

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 22

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

@AhmedAskar

 

I'm still hopeful that this will get fixed. I've been with Rogers for quite a while now, and it's been excellent for everything short of uploading to Twitch, both performance wise and customer support.

 

This is obviously not some easy issue that can be fixed overnight. I am trying my best to be cooperative and supply as much information as I can give. If you look over on the other Twitch thread, there's not a whole lot of information engineers, and IT can work with, despite being 15 pages long. Compound that with the fact that we're all on dodgy modems and the problem gets even harder to diagnose.

 

Another factor is money. Bell's prices skyrocket after the promotional period (usually 1 year). The same could be said about Rogers, but they made a loyalty offer that I feel is pretty good (assuming this gets fixed in the near future).

 

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I didn't want to ignore a community member either.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 39

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Didn't know Poke was from around here. The twitter post was from a while ago.

 

Talked to him and he said he's still having issues with Rogers, he's on the old modem with 25/10 package. 

Funny thing is that he said he's been using WIFI over Ethernet and has less issues. lol.

 

Did a 5 hour stream today and had 3000 dropped frames, around 0.3%. Way better than what I usually get.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 22

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

Is that with or without a 3rd party router?

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 39

Re: Rogers and Twitch.tv - Seeking an official response

I tried both.
With and without, no issues anymore.

 

Hopefully it stays like this.