Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 7

Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

Dear Rogers Community Members,

 

I have tried many modem option with different speed upgrades to eliminate my ongoing issues with Rogers Internet connection lags during playing games. As far as i know Rogers  well known for LAGS in gaming.  I dont believe the equipment Rogers using is  supported for GAMING. Two reason listed below :

 

1) Strict/Modarate NAT issues that CGN2,3 cannot know how to deal with

 

2) Package lost / unreliable connection down time

 

My Concerns and question as a customer :

e

I have called 4 techician/ticket in last 9 months. Their knowledge are very limited. They dont know what NAT is or how does effect the communication between device vs modem. All 4 techinician just change the cable and said your "SIGNAL Level too high" changed the adapter. Nothing worked! i have explained to them this is related to your "eqipment" / network restrictions. They said you have to figure out on your own.

 

1) why would i go this trouble as a customer to do MANUAL setup for port forwarding ? Nat settings all.

 

2) Why USA ISP's doesnt have this issues ? or the person connect from europe ?

 

3) Why are your selling "furbished" "fullish" products to customer ?

 

4) Why dont you train your staff so they could understand how to resolve or create a solution for any of these issues via phone or in person.  Changing cables , creating tickets useless when you all know where the main problem is.

 

I am truely tired last 7 years using rogers , each time similiar issues. Gaming is number 1 issue because of NAT - modarate or strict. Also the gateway products they intro as a modem are not capble of reading or distributing proper network signal. 

 

 

If i have to rate rogers on a scale 1-10 , 1 being the worse. I would rate "0". Thats how much I hate to deal with Rogers. 

 

***Edited Labels***

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 13,990

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

The rogers gateways.. are well known for their NAT issues.

I dont think its a that a NAT doesnt work on them... its just the NAT is INSANELY strict.. and doesnt play nice.

(Amongst other things.. poor wireless rang, etc).
Really, they are on par with your like $40 3rd party router choices..

 

MOST people though?  End up getting their own router, and using BRIDGE MODE, which changes it into a MODEM ONLY, and then the 3rd party router does all the work... NAT and otherwise.. and generally does a BETTER job.

This is why, most 3rd party internet providers, dont even bother with gatways for the most part.. and just have you BUY or RENT a modem only... and ALWAYS have to supply your own router.

 

As for the packet loss.. Downtime.... that COULD be singal related..  Hard to say with out some more details.
I have had the CGN3 for almost a year.. i dont have ANY packet loss nor generally any lag.  (But that is on the games I play.. it may vary from game to game.  Also, i PC game mostly... alot of the issues could stem from the NAT issues).  But i also probably live in a very different area than you.. go through different nodes, etc.. any of which could cause an issue/error (which YES rogers should still be fixing).

 

-------

 

I do have to agree with many of the rogers technicians.  There are some GOOD ones.. but they are few/far between it seems sometimes.. i have had them.. but my fair share of the others as well.
They are trained to an extent.. some tech background.. but often just the bare minimum, if its outside the core questions/problems.. well you cant always get very far.

There are a bunch of us here (generally RE's, but some others as well), who have NO affiation with rogers, do not work for them, etc... who have a MUCH larger knoledge base on some of the things.. how to look, what to look for, and potentially how to fix/what to do.

If you are interested in us giving you a hand.

 

To start, we would need a few things to get going.

A ) What all hardware you have.. modem, cableing, network card

B ) The DOCSIS WAN signal table from your modem.   If ok sometimes and worse others.. a listing from BOTH times (noting what time of day, etc)
C ) What games you are playing.  Server IP addresses if they are available to get (unless its say obviously something that just attaches you to random matches who knows where).  From here could do some traces to see WHERE The loss is possibly comming from along the path.

Though the ultimate test, would be to do bridge mode with a router, and see if alot of it disapears.



I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 581

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

Would there be some kind of fix/ software update coming soon to fix the strict NAT? Or anything else?

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 928

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?


@eddiethefunnyon wrote:

Would there be some kind of fix/ software update coming soon to fix the strict NAT? Or anything else?


Frankly, no. The questionable software quality of the various Rogers gateways (and to be fair, I think every ISP that provides gateways gets complaints about the NAT functionality of their gateways) has been an ongoing issue for years. Different gateways have different software issues. 

 

Ultimately, what all of the REs here will recommend is putting the gateway in bridge mode and getting your own router (many of us like the Asus RT-AC68U - pricy but solid). Luckily, all of the Rogers gateways offer a bridge mode (this is not true of many ISPs' gateways, including U.S. providers like Google Fiber). I think Rogers and their vendors (correctly) expect any advanced users (or even non-techies like my parents) to bridge and run their own, good, gear, so fixing limitations in the NAT implementation is not high on the priority list. 

I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 7

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

Thank you for long reply asking me questions. But at this point i want you to understand, i m tired as a customer to go through this. Make a product that works is a BEST solution.

I'm a Reliable Contributor
Posts: 581

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

I recently replaced my OLD faulty CGN3ACSMR with a NEW CGN3ACSMR. The new CG3NACSMR NAT type at first was open and that allowed for my devices (PS4, PC, etc..)  to connect into games seamlessly and I was also able to join with friends in game sessions. Everything went great untill now. I have no idea what happened, but my NAT type changed from OPEN to moderate (Type 2 on PS4). Joining my friends is not possible because my NAT is now moderate. It seems as if the strict NAT that plagues the rest of the Hitron modems appears to have plagued my CGN3ACSMR too. 

(Why did my CGN3ACSMR NAT change from OPEN TO MODERATE?)

 

 

 

Setting up a Static IP address to free the ports (on the PS4) is just too stressful and there isn't any other solution that would solve the strict NAT type. NOTE: (PS4=WiFi connection) This is also affecting my gaming experience on the PC......

 

The strict NAT is not making it easier to play games- Is there anything ANYTHING that Rogers can do to fix this? The only way to get out of this NAT mess is to buy a decent Router that doesn't have a strict NAT........

Retired Moderator RogersArthur
Retired Moderator
Posts: 385

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

Hi @RyzenFX,



Thank you for your post I can imagine how frustrating it must be to have things change beyond your control.


I understand your new replacement CG3NACSMR modem's NAT type changed from OPEN to moderate and now you're not able to connect into games seamlessly like before or join with friends in game sessions. As far as why this happened normally if the modem has not be configured the NAT type will automatically switch to moderate depending on the game servers it connects to. I would suggest you set up a port forwarding rules for the device / applications. To do so log into the modem, select Basic > Port Forwarding > Enter an application name, leave the protocol set to TCP/UDP, enter the port numbers, IP address of the device or PC and click apply to save. You can search online for the device or application port numbers (I found this site to be helpful) or click here if you'd like to use our online Rogers TechXpert team. Below is an example for rest of the Community as to why having an open NAT is important for online gaming.

 

OPEN NAT

MODERATE NAT

STRICT NAT

With an OPEN NAT type, you're able to play and host multiplayer games with people who have any NAT type on their network.

With a MODERATE NAT type, you're able to play multiplayer games with some people; however, you might not be able to play with others, and normally you won't be chosen as the host of a match.

With a STRICT NAT type, you're only able to play multiplayer games with people who have an OPEN NAT type. You can't be chosen as the host of a match.


Hope this helps,
RogersArthur

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,229

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

Fwiw, no matter if you only use the Hitron modem, or use a third party router, you have a couple of options:

 

1.  use a static IP address for the PS4 and set up the port forwarding rules for that static address.  Leave UPNP off in this case.

2.  Use or enable UPNP and do not set up any static address or port forwarding rules.  The PS4 in conjunction with the modem or router UPNP should then enable all of the port fowarding rules.

 

Why did the NAT change.  Without knowing how the modem was set up initially, I would say that its possible that the modem may have lost power, possibly just a momentary power loss, at which point the IP addresses may have changed.  I would suggest logging into the modem, navigate to BASIC.... LAN delete any DHCP reservations you may have set up, then navigate to BASIC..... PORT FORWARDING to delete any port forward rules that might be set, then navigate to BASIC..... GATEWAY FUNCTION to enable UPNP.  Save the setting.  Make sure that the PS4 is not powered up at this point.  Navigate to ADMIN.... DEVICE RESET to reboot the modem.  After the reboot is complete, power up the PS4.  With UPNP enabled in the modem, the two devices should work out the required port forwarding rules.  I would wonder in the event that the PS4 is turned off, when its powered back up, possibly to receive a different IP address, if the modem will change the port forwarding IP address?  That is something you would have to experiment with as it also involves other wifi IP addresses which might change as well. 

 

The one consideration to UPNP is that it can be used by "good" applications and rogue applications to change your modem settings without your knowledge.  That is why I do not usually recommend UPNP for anything.  My preference would be to see a static IP address and port forwarding rules as applicable, with the UPNP disabled.  So, give UPNP a go, and see if it manages to solve the problems. 



Highlighted
I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

Hitron CGN3ACSMR opening ports on it's own / NAT issues

 

Hello
i have been having many issues with my Hitron CGN3ACSMR for awhile now but especially the last few weeks
So i first ran into problems with my xbox i always like to have my NAT open on xbox for a good gaming expierence
and i usually would use port forwarding to make sure my nat was open however i noticed my NAT would often
switch back and forth from open to moderate so i turned off port forwarding and tried DMZ and i though it worked at first but then noticed my NAT was still
going back and forth from open to moderate, Now the interesting thing about this is it seems to trigger this when i restart
my xbox and modem, Once i restart my devices it seems to reopen port forwarding even if port forwarding was off and i had no ports on there once i restart my devices
port forwarding is automaitcally turned back on and forwarding either 1 or 2 ports to my xbox
the 1 that always shows up after a restart is named
Teredo and it is for port - 3074
the second one which just popped up for the first time is called
DemonwarePortMapping and it is port - 3075
I didn't open either of them and if i delete them or turn port forwarding off and restart my modem/xbox they will just come right back
now i am not sure if this is what is causing my NAT to switch back and forth from open to moderate i am hopping to try and get a solution
because i have reset the modem/router back to factory settings 30+ times i have gone to rogers and had it replaced about a week ago (Which
created a new problem i have a ghost network attached so i need to replace it again) but i had the port / nat issue with the previous one also so i know i
will still need to fix that once i replace the modem
The only trick i have found that stops the ports from re opening is by turning off UPNP but that is not really the best solution because you pretty much
need UPNP for gaming on xbox, I am open to any suggestions
PS i am on an ethernet connection but i have tested wifi aswell and it has the same issue on both

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,229

Re: Rogers Modem NAT problems / gaming ?

One of the problems that XBox users run into with the Hitron modems in the strict NAT.  At the end of the day, my advice would be to run the modem in Bridge mode with a third party router.  The router will give you much better control over the ports required for the XBox.  Now, having said that, Rogers has implemented IPV6, and if you have firmware version 4.5.8.20, IPV6 will be available in either Gateway or Bridge mode.  A factory reset is required to enable IPV6 operation in Gateway mode.  Native IPV6 should be a game changer so to speak when it comes to port forwarding and NAT issues.  It should make peer to peer gaming much simpler.  So, I would encourage you to experiment with IPV6 availability and see what it does to and with the XBox.  

 

In terms of the UPNP on or off, yup, if the UPNP is left on, and you restart the modem and or the XBox, UPNP in both devices will negotiate the port forwarding required for the XBox.  Its doing what its designed to do, and the only way to stop it is to turn UPNP off within the modem settings.  In that case you would have to set all of the ports yourself.  What does each one do to the NAT, in terms of Open NAT to Moderate whenever you restart the XBox I'm not sure, but it would appear from your comments that it causes the NAT state to change which is an interesting observation.   

 

Have a look at the following Youtube video.  It looks like there is a trick thru the Multiplay Connection test to switch the connection type to open.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxCjScH9xNc

 

Assuming that this works as shown, and allows you to flip the NAT type to Open, what it really points out is that there is some issue with the Xbox network controller that requires a work around.  Simple solution, fix the controller software.  Personal opinion.

 

I would try this with the UPNP on, and with the UPNP off and port forwarding set and see what it does in terms of flipping the NAT to Open.  

 

Also have a look at the following youtube video regarding the XBox and IPV6 and Teredo Tunneling.  It a presentation by Christopher Palmer, a Microsoft Program Manager in the Operating System Group:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSjljW4clPM

 

So, have a look at both videos and the IPV6 availability on your network, try the workaround and let us know what you find.  

 


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