Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

Like..

 

I appreciate all the effort you've put in Andy and it's ultimately not your fault, but "a slow process" and no ETA isn't really acceptable when my main source of income is being impacted at random on a daily basis.

 

I'm gonna have to switch providers. Thanks for all your work so far.

Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 178

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

Hey @Marcoux1!

 

Though I don't have an ETR at this time as this is an ongoing process, the more traceroute information we have pinpointing the issue the better. There's some additional tests I'd like to run on your network, can you send us a PM @CommunityHelps? For information on our PM system you can check out our Blog. Smiley Happy

 

@aeroteq!

My pleasure, we'll be sad to see you go Smiley Sad. If there's anything else you need please let me know.

 

 

@RogersAndy

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 8

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

 
Did you discover anything from your tests?
You mentioned you would reach out to some contacts; have they provided some options?
Any update would be appreciated, even if it's technical.
I've been conducting MTR's every day and have been seeing the same pattern. Let me know if you'd like me to post them.
Are there other things we could be trying? I'm open to anything. Need send a technician to inspect settings or conduct tests? Try a different modem?
I wouldn't mind downgrading to previous package if it provided temporary relief.
 
Thanks!
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 178

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

Hey @angral!

 

Definitely did Smiley Happy. First up, are you able to post a traceroute to google using command prompt as opposed to WinMTR? The results from WinMTR may not be accurate.

Also, we'll likely need to send out a technician for signal related concerns that may or may be contributing to what you're experiencing. You can send us a PM @CommunityHelps at your convenience and we'll get that taken care of for ya.

 

Thanks!

 

@RogersAndy

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 8

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

Thanks, I'll PM. Here's a few traceroutes:

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert google.ca

Tracing route to google.ca [2607:f8b0:400b:80f::2003]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  2607:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx
  2     9 ms    10 ms     8 ms  2607:xxxx:xxx:xx::x
  3     7 ms     8 ms     8 ms  2607:f798:10:10ab:0:690:6325:5189
  4     7 ms     8 ms     8 ms  2607:f798:10:349:0:2091:4823:5109
  5     9 ms    11 ms     9 ms  2607:f798:10:354::1
  6     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  2001:4860:1:1:0:32c:0:8
  7     9 ms    17 ms    10 ms  2001:4860:0:11d7::1
  8    10 ms    10 ms    11 ms  2001:4860:0:1::2a5b
  9    10 ms     9 ms     8 ms  yyz10s14-in-x03.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:400b:80f::2003]

Trace complete.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert google.ca

Tracing route to google.ca [2607:f8b0:400b:80f::2003]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  2607:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx
  2    10 ms    10 ms     9 ms  2607:xxxx:xxx:xx::x
  3     8 ms     8 ms     6 ms  2607:f798:10:10ab:0:690:6325:5189
  4     9 ms     8 ms     7 ms  2607:f798:10:349:0:2091:4823:5109
  5     9 ms     9 ms    11 ms  2607:f798:10:354::1
  6    11 ms     8 ms     8 ms  2001:4860:1:1:0:32c:0:8
  7    11 ms     9 ms    10 ms  2001:4860:0:11d7::1
  8    10 ms    10 ms    12 ms  2001:4860:0:1::2a5b
  9    10 ms     9 ms     9 ms  yyz10s14-in-x03.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:400b:80f::2003]

Trace complete.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert -4 google.ca

Tracing route to google.ca [172.217.1.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  CODA4582 [xxx.xxx.x.x]
  2    12 ms    10 ms     7 ms  xx.xxx.xx.x
  3     7 ms     8 ms     8 ms  8076-dgw02.wlfdle.rmgt.net.rogers.com [69.63.255.193]
  4     9 ms     9 ms    10 ms  3032-cgw01.bloor.rmgt.net.rogers.com [209.148.232.41]
  5    10 ms     9 ms     8 ms  209.148.235.137
  6    10 ms     8 ms     7 ms  72.14.209.126
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    10 ms    10 ms     9 ms  216.239.42.60
  9    10 ms     8 ms     8 ms  74.125.244.163
 10     9 ms    11 ms     9 ms  108.170.250.225
 11    11 ms    10 ms     9 ms  216.239.35.235
 12    11 ms     9 ms     9 ms  iad23s25-in-f3.1e100.net [172.217.1.3]

Trace complete.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert -4 google.ca

Tracing route to google.ca [172.217.1.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  CODA4582 [xxx.xxx.x.x]
  2     9 ms    17 ms     8 ms  xx.xxx.xx.x
  3     9 ms     9 ms     8 ms  8076-dgw02.wlfdle.rmgt.net.rogers.com [69.63.255.193]
  4     8 ms     8 ms     9 ms  3032-cgw01.bloor.rmgt.net.rogers.com [209.148.232.41]
  5     8 ms     9 ms    10 ms  209.148.235.137
  6    10 ms    20 ms     9 ms  72.14.209.126
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    11 ms    10 ms     8 ms  216.239.42.60
  9    18 ms    10 ms     8 ms  74.125.244.163
 10     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  108.170.250.225
 11    11 ms    11 ms    15 ms  216.239.35.235
 12    12 ms     9 ms     9 ms  iad23s25-in-f3.1e100.net [172.217.1.3]

Trace complete.
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

The packet loss issues started when I switched back to Rogers last year.  Did not have problems when I was on Bell.  This was a self-install, and I no longer have the coax filter which I had when I was with Rogers last time (WinMTR said problem is at the modem?)

 

https://i.postimg.cc/VNxvycCC/Capture.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/d0RWTGKN/Capture2.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/tJJDffn8/Capture3.jpg

 

 

I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

     I wish I had have seen this forum and posts earlier, but I didn't. I also have been having these same issues with lagging while playing online games for over a year. My son is a pro gamer and can not have any issues. We have had your service techs come out many times with no improvement. I finally spoke to some other gamers and have come to find out that there has been known issues with the modem/router chipset (Puma/6). Since you do not offer a different modem with a different chipset I was forced to change service providers to try and see if this other modem fixes the issues. This other provider uses the same Rogers lines just different equipment. As of today May/8/2019 date of changeover I can not report anything because I have not been able to test the system to see if there's any improvement. My son is away in League play for a few weeks so there isn't much I can do to test it as I am not as adept as other users that have ran tests here. I will update what I find out when I find out, and here's to hoping this new setup does the trick.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,049

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

@Baker9916 I’d like to provide a few comments on your comments.  There are a wide range of issues that affect gaming performance, from house to local tap cable and connector conditions, local node loading, CMTS loading and finally, the routing and peering issues from the source down to the game servers.  House to local tap cabling and connectors can be resolved by the field techs.  Local node and CMTS loading, source to destination path and peering is something that @RogersAndy is looking into.  Personal opinion, there needs to be an open discussion regarding those items and how to improve gaming performance by changing the various elements in those topics.  I hope that will happen someday, but, I not holding my breath waiting for it.  Rogers has been reducing the number of homes connected to the local nodes which improves performance to the homes, but, it can’t happen everywhere, overnight.  I’m assuming that Rogers is tackling the nodes which have the highest loads first, in a step by step process. 

 

With regards to the Puma 6 issue, Rogers was the first ISP to release any firmware to address the Intel Puma 6 latency issues.  Those latency issues included all protocols, ICMP, TCP/IP and UDP for both IPV4 and IPV6.  UDP was a bigger issue due to the packet loss that occurred, which would have had a direct effect on gaming since gaming companies use UDP to transmit gaming traffic.  The engineering staff has probably been the most proactive staff of many ISPs when it comes to dealing with the Puma 6 problems.  That’s cold comfort to those who remember the early days of the CGN3 series modem (believe me it wasn’t pretty), but, they’ve been working very diligently with Hitron to resolve the issues.  In 2016 it appears that Rogers took a back seat to the latency resolution and launched off in a different direction to implement the newer Intel Puma 7 modem.  For whatever reason, Rogers left Arris and Intel to resolve the latency issues and concentrated on the Puma 7 modem.  When updates were available for the Puma 6 modem in the following months, they were released across the network.  Having tested the Puma 6 modems in 2016, believe me, I do know how bad they were.  Now, having switched over to the Puma 7 modem, which is a completely different modem in terms of its performance, I don’t know if all of the latency issues with the Puma 6 modems were all addressed properly.  Since I’m running the CODA-4582 which is a Puma 7 modem, I haven’t had the opportunity to test a Puma 6 modem again and I probably won’t ever have an opportunity to do so.  Not sure if that’s good or bad for Roger’s customers who are still running Puma 6 modems.  No company, from Intel to the manufacturers to the ISPs have released any latency plots which prove definitively that the issues have all been addressed.  It’s up to the users once again to test the modem and determine if the performance is acceptable.  This should be done by Intel and verified by an independent third party, but, that’s a whole different discussion on the state of testing of consumer modems, or should I say, the lack of testing of consumer modems.

 

While Arris and Intel were wrestling with the Puma 6, Hitron and Rogers were working on the Puma 7 which was released in Dec 2016.  That’s only four months after Rogers released the first firmware update to resolve the ICMP IPV4 latency for the Puma 6 modems, a first release world-wide as far as I’m aware.  Since then Hitron and Rogers have implemented further firmware updates to the Puma 6 modems and they've been pretty diligent in fixing the problems with the Puma 7 modem. 

 

For the issue of not offering a different chipset, that is incorrect in that the Hitron CODA-4582 (Puma 7) has been available since Dec 2016, although the criteria for customer use has changed a couple of times.  I believe, and don’t quote me on this, that you have to be running the 300 Mb/s (?) or 1 Gb/s plan to run the Hitron CODA-4582.  Beyond that, now with the Rogers Ignite TV service, there are two XB6 modems available with that service, the Arris TG-3482ER and the Technicolor CGM-4140.  The Arris modem is another Intel Puma 7 modem while the Technicolor modem is a Broadcom BCM-3390 based modem.  The Technicolor modem is probably the better choice due to its design.  If I was looking to run the Ignite TV service, my choice would be the Technicolor modem.

 

Now that you’ve switched providers, you have to be careful with your choice of modems.  The TPIAs also run Intel Puma 6 modems, so, if you ended up with one of those modems, there’s a good chance that you’re no further ahead.  If you managed to obtain a Technicolor TC-4400, then you’re ok.  On the plus side, a TPIA would probably be open to discussions on routing and peering, compared to any response that you might see from Rogers, Bell or Shaw for example.  Traffic routing to the destination is a common complaint for all large carriers.  Unfortunately, money talks, and that usually means routing based on the cheapest costs to the company.  The end result of that is poor routing for the customer and high overall route latency as a result.  I don’t think that any of the major carriers are immune from this problem.  Hopefully, whatever company you chose to use will prove to be receptive to those discussions as I’ve seen the past.    

 

One bad point regarding TPIAs is the leg work that the major carriers impose in order to dispatch a field tech to resolve a problem.  If you believe that the service with Rogers techs was bad when you were with Rogers, it won’t be any better with a TPIA, and that’s not the TPIAs fault.  How their treated by the large carriers is a major bone of contention with all of the TPIAs.  So, be prepared if something does go wrong.  It will take a considerable amount of time to see that the problem is addressed.   

 

Ok, so, hope this clears some of the perceptions you have regarding Rogers.  I’m not defending Rogers here, just pointing out some of the history regarding the Puma 6 modems and where this has led Rogers to deploying the Intel Puma 7 and Broadcom BCM-3390 modems.  The latency issues with Intel Puma 6 modems date back to Aug 2010 when Intel bought Texas Instruments Puma cable modem product line and then proceeded to put their own spin on the design.  Released around 2011/2012, those Puma 6 modems have caused problems world-wide.  Given that some ISPs in the U.S. don’t update customer owned modems, those issues will be around for several years to come. 



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 85

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

Figured I would post an update on my internet issues. I posted back when this thread was first opened, and immediately was put in contact with @RogersAndy. He did a good job getting my issues fixed, and my internet was working perfectly. 

 

That only lasted about 1 week. 

 

Right afterward, the same issues started coming back. High packet loss spikes, small consistent packet loss, low speeds, etc. 

 

Since then, things just seem to be getting worse. Now, my internet has been disconnecting fully for the past month or two.  Any sort of connection is interrupted, and in some cases, it seems I need to reboot the modem for it to reestablish a connection. 

 

This is the error in the logs: "Lost MDD Timeout" Today, for instance, it's dropped probably 10+ times. I've just tried a factory reset too, and within 30 minutes there's two of em. 

 

So I've been in contact with the folks running this lab since, and so far, no luck. Techs have been sent out, modems have been swapped, and maintenance work has performed in my area, all with almost no improvement. 

 

As far back as September, I was told that there's congestion in my area and that a node segmentation is supposed to happen soon, but that was delayed until April. Now April has passed and I'm guessing it was delayed again, but I'm not sure.

 

The most recent follow-up I had to inquire about seems to indicate it's an electrical fault, stemming either from the area power grid or a power supply issue on Rogers' end. There wasn't any information where the power issue was coming from in the technicians' notes, apparently, so either it hasn't been figured out or they didn't put it in their notes. 

 

So basically it's been almost 2 months since my issues came back after participating in this lab. I've been in contact with the Rogers employees involved and haven't heard from any of them in over a month. 

 

I'd also like to say that I've been having packet loss related issues with streaming and gaming since May of last year. I've been in contact with Rogers support since then. Almost one year later, and it's gotten even worse.

 

How has this affected me? I just gave up streaming. I pretty much lost all my subscriptions on Twitch, as I haven't been able to stream for about 2 months now. I can't even game on this connection anymore, so I bought the only other option (other than expensive data capped mobile internet) I have, a 5down/1 up DSL line. And I'm actually writing this on that connection, cause our Rogers one keeps going out. 

 

The worst part is I don't know what the heck is going on. I have to sit here and hope it's being worked on. Any sort of update I have to inquire about, and I'm usually surprised because my ticket will have either been closed and I'm still having issues, or there's a new piece of info about the technical faults at hand. I asked what's being done about this new electrical issue, and was just told "we'll update you when there's new info". Well, the last time I was told that, there was a month of silence, despite new issues being discovered. 

 

Not sure if anyone reading this will be able to do anything, or update me with any more info, but I'm mainly making this as an update post. I even went back and tried to edit or delete my last post, claiming my time with the "Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab" as a success, but I couldn't find out how to. 

I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 6

Re: Rogers Gaming & Streaming Lab

Hello, I upgraded to a CODA-4582U a couple years ago and I'm supposed to be getting 500+ down and 20+ up, back then I did have some signal issues and had 3-4 normal techs come in and eventually that issue got resolved and last year I was having packet loss issues. I had a senior tech come in last year and the tests he did determined nothing was wrong and he played it off as game servers, the issue would come and go and I would just ignore it, every time I would ask support if there were any issues they would say the signal is fine, and when I check the DOCSIS WAN tab they are indeed fine. I'll paste a table of it.

 

Downstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Signal noise ratio (dB)
1 591000000 256QAM 2.400 7 38.605
2 855000000 256QAM -2.000 3 36.610
3 861000000 256QAM -2.800 4 36.610
4 579000000 256QAM 2.300 5 37.636
5 585000000 256QAM 2.500 6 38.605
6 849000000 256QAM -1.500 2 37.356
7 597000000 256QAM 2.500 8 38.605
8 603000000 256QAM 2.700 9 38.605
9 609000000 256QAM 2.400 10 38.983
10 615000000 256QAM 2.900 11 38.983
11 621000000 256QAM 3.100 12 38.983
12 633000000 256QAM 3.100 13 38.605
13 639000000 256QAM 3.500 14 38.983
14 645000000 256QAM 3.700 15 38.983
15 651000000 256QAM 3.600 16 38.983
16 657000000 256QAM 3.500 17 38.605
17 663000000 256QAM 3.400 18 38.605
18 669000000 256QAM 3.700 19 38.983
19 675000000 256QAM 3.200 20 38.605
20 681000000 256QAM 3.300 21 38.605
21 687000000 256QAM 3.400 22 38.605
22 693000000 256QAM 3.700 23 38.605
23 699000000 256QAM 3.400 24 38.605
24 705000000 256QAM 3.000 25 38.605
25 711000000 256QAM 3.000 26 38.605
26 717000000 256QAM 3.100 27 38.605
27 723000000 256QAM 2.700 28 38.605
28 825000000 256QAM 0.200 29 37.636
29 831000000 256QAM -0.400 30 37.356
30 837000000 256QAM -0.600 31 37.636
31 843000000 256QAM -1.100 32 37.356
32 279000000 256QAM 3.900 1 38.605

 

OFDM Downstream Overview
Receiver FFT type Subcarr 0 Frequency(MHz) PLC locked NCP locked MDC1 locked PLC power(dBmv)
0 4K 275600000 YES YES YES 2.799999
1 NA NA NO NO NO NA

 

Upstream Overview
Port ID Frequency (MHz) Modulation Signal strength (dBmV) Channel ID Bandwidth
1 30596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 30.000 1 6400000
2 38596000 ATDMA - 64QAM 33.750 3 3200000
3 23700000 ATDMA - 64QAM 29.750 2 6400000

 

OFDM/OFDMA Overview
Channel Index State lin Digital Att Digital Att BW (sc's*fft) Report Power Report Power1_6 FFT Size
0 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K
1 DISABLED 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 -inf -1.0000 4K


The past couple weeks the problem has been consistent, my download and latency are fine, but my upload has dropped hard and my packet loss is constant, rogers support says my signals are fine, and had them create a ticket to survey the area for problems, surprisingly I got an e-mail the next day saying they fixed the issue with no difference, it persists. I figured if rogers is getting good signals to the modem then it must be the modem or the ethernet cables, all my devices are directly connected and the wi-fi is disabled. I bought new ethernet cables to rule that out and the problem persists, and if the signal rogers is getting is good I'm supposing the modem is working fine, it's still giving us good signals and we have low latency so after some research I discovered that many other people have a bufferbloat problem with the same modem and they bridge it to a decent router. It's my last resort since there's nothing else I can think of, but would a router fix low upload speeds? I can understand fixing packet loss with QoS, but upload speed, does it work like that? I used to get proper upload speeds before this recent constant problem, usually in the 15-23Mbps range, but now when i test on pc I'm lucky to get 7Mbps, usually lingering around 3-5 and on xbox it is constantly below 1Mbps, usually around 0.8Mbps. Since the problem just arose recently in the last few weeks I think it's likely something was introduced lately to interfere with signal, maybe the construction down the street, or someone else on the lines. But i would assume the ticket that was sent to survey area problems would have caught that unless they were negligent. But even so I've been having off and on packet loss before it became a constant issue and before the construction, since I wanted to start streaming soon it will be impossible with both weak upload speeds and constant packet loss. I've seen people say that the CODA-4582U is weak when it comes to router capabilities and having multiple devices connected to it would cause the connections to deteriorate, leading me to believe that bridging the modem to a router would help, I was thinking the TP LINK Archer C9. I figure I would be able to get more help on this forum since It's dedicated to streaming and gaming.