Hi all. We recently reno’d our basement and unfortunately the spot where the tv will be located is pretty dead. Our current wi-fi setup has been quite stable (airport extreme/express) but it looks like it's reached its limits. I’ve looked at mesh options but after reading about moca on these boards, especially posts by @Datalink I’ve concluded that it may be the best solution for us.
Our home has a typical coax split at the basement entry point. One cable runs to the second floor modem/router and the other runs to the main floor cable box. We had our basement contractor install a couple of coax outlets and one of those is in the future TV area. Pics below of existing setup and splitter.
BUT upon further inspection I saw this:
It only had a power cord attached to it. Looks like the previous owners had a moca network running.
So anyway a couple of questions:
Do I discard my existing splitter and make this moca filter/voip amplifier my new main splitter? Or do I add this to my existing – and what part of the chain does it go?
Can my modem (Rogers white) and router remain upstairs with a moca adapter hooked up to it? Do I have to re-configure the modem for moca (prefer not to)
I guess what I need is just a step-by-step setup for this specific situation. I will probably need 3 adapters (1 by the modem, 1 at the main floor cable box (for appletv), 1 at the new basement coax for another appletv). I've seen a lot of different configurations but wondering if this would work for me.
I've made a diagram below. Thanks!
Hello, @JiveMiguel
Welcome to the Rogers Community Forums!
Thanks for the very detailed post. While we are unable to support you directly in this endeavour the community is the right place to go for help. Our resident expert @Datalink may be able to provide you with some insight on what the ideal setup would look like in your situation.
I have tagged him on this post and I am confident he will reply to you shortly.
RogersTony
@JiveMiguel this is just to let you know that I've read thru your post. You're on the right track with your second diagram. A MoCa 2.0 amplifier or potentially a MoCA 2.0 splitter would replace the current splitter. It depends on the inbound signal levels at the first splitter point. If the signal levels are high enough, than a splitter could do the job. If the signal levels are less than about 5/6 dBmV on the downstream side, then most likely a MoCA 2.0 amp would be required.
That amp that you show is an older amplifier. It would do for experimental purposes, but, you're not going to get the maximum performance out of a MoCA 2.0/2.5 network as that amp only goes up to 1525 Mhz which is the upper limit of the original MoCA D band. The newer MoCA 2.0/2.5 amps and splitter operate up to 1675 Mhz. That would require a new Antronix MoCA amp, which Rogers might be willing to provide. They look like the following:
MoCA-Optimized Residential Amplifiers (antronix.com)
I have to check the specs to see which amp would be appropriate for the number of cables that you intend to run.
The other solution would be a PPC amplifier such as a PPC-5M-U/U, PPC-5M-U/UPI or a PPC-5M-U/UPS. I'll have to read thru the specs to see what the difference are. I suspect that its only the power converter, but, its rather late at the moment.
There are other MoCA posts on the forum that I've posted. I'll have to find them so that I can refer you to them. There is a lot of information on the forum, its just a matter of finding it.
And, finally for now, just to point out, there are other 2.5 Gb/s adapters around. Last time that I Iooked at these, Screeenbeams document support was abysmal, to the point that I recommended other adapters. I'll try to find one of my last posts that I posted about these (its been a while).
Hello @JiveMiguel
As I indicated previously, there are MoCA 2.5 adapters with 2.5 Gb/s ethernet ports. They are more expensive than a typical MoCA 2.5 adapter with a 1 Gb/s port, so, it’s a question of how much do you want to spend on a MoCA network, considering your future plans for any equipment acquisition. So, here are ome examples of adapters with 2.5 Gb/s ethernet ports and a limited number with 1 Gb/s ethernet ports, just to point them out:
https://www.amazon.ca/Motorola-Adapter-Ethernet-Network-Streaming/dp/B08TDVN14D
https://www.amazon.ca/StarLink-Ethernet-Adapter-Full-Duplex-MN2525/dp/B08FZ9CK8M
https://www.amazon.ca/StarLink-Ethernet-Adapter-Gigabit-MN2550/dp/B08NFJPDCS
https://starlink7.com/MoCA.html
Note that there is one Starlink adapter with dual 1 Gb/s ethernet ports, the MN2550
You had previously indicated this adapter in your original post. Here’s Screenbeam’s page for their adapters. It appears that they simply added the ECB7250 to the existing page:
https://www.screenbeam.com/products/ecb6250/
According to that page, the product comparison shows the adapter has a 100/1000/2.5 Base T ethernet adapter, meaning that it will run at 100 Mb/s, 1 Gb/s or 2.5 Gb/s. The product sheet and user manual indicates that the adapter will run at 10/100/2500 Base T 802.3bz. There’s a misprint somewhere as I don’t believe the 10 Mb/s 100 Mb/s 2500 Mb/s data rates. For 802.3 bz, the adapter should support 1 Gb/s and 2.5 Gb/s at the very least.
For any of those adapters that have a 2.5 Gb/s ethernet port, if you happen to have a router with a 2.5 Gb/s ethernet port on it, connecting the adapter set to that port will or should realize a 2.5 Gb/s throughput thru the MoCA network, including the router. If you happen to have an XB7 modem for the Ignite Tv system, that modem has a 2.5 Gb/s port on it on the lower right hand corner from what I remember. It’s marked with a red stripe (??) to indicate that it’s a 2.5 Gb/s port.
Here's the support page for the ECB7250:
https://retailsupport.screenbeam.com/hc/en-us/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=ECB7250
The user manual is lacking in detail, as usual. Its better than previous Adaptec adapters, which was basically nothing, but, its still nowhere near the manuals from other manufactures. It indicates that you should log into http://192.168.144.200 to set the MoCA Protected Setup, but, it doesn’t tell you how to get there. You might be able to log into that directly when its connected to your router, or, you probably have to disconnect your pc from the router, set its IP address as 192.168.144.1, reboot the pc and then connect directly to the adapter via ethernet cable to log into http://192.168.144.200. That seems to be the common method of logging into the adapter. Once you’re in the adapter’s User Interface, you should be able to set DHCP as the IP address assign selection, so that the router assigns the IP address to the adapter. From then on, you should be able to log into the adapter from a network connected pc or laptop.
For comparison’s sake, have a look at the following MoCA Adapter manuals:
https://kiweemoca.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/kb-m3-01-user-manual.pdf
https://starlink7.com/pdf/MN25xx%20Configuration%20Guide%20v1.2.pdf
The Starlink configuration guide is the best user manual that I’ve seen to date. Considering that all of these adapters probably use the same Max Linear chip set, this is what all of the user manuals should look like. So, no matter what adapter you decide to buy, keep a copy of this manual around to refer to.
Ok, on to the main task at hand, the splitter or amplifier. Looking at your diagram #2, that looks like the configuration that you should use. So, you’ll have one main MoCA splitter and a second high frequency splitter to connect the MoCA Adapter and the Rogers Cable box. Here’s the reference sheet for the Antronix splitters that Rogers is probably using these days:
https://www.antronix.com/pdf/ds-1181-ss-a02-mmc1000-splitters.pdf
The two splitters of interest would be the MMC1003H-B and the MMC1003BH-B. both of these are three port splitters that would suit your design.
The first has two signal drops for the different ports essentially 4 db or 8 dB for the cable frequencies that Rogers uses. The next splitter is a balanced splitter which has 6.5 dB drops (approx).
The follow on high frequency splitter which connects the Rogers Cable box and MoCA adapter will have a 3.5 dB drop, for a total drop of 7.5 db or 11.5 dB for the first splitter and 10 dB for the balanced splitter. So, you would have to have an average of either 7.5 dBmV, 11.5 dBmV or 10 dBmV for signal levels in order to drop down to a target level of 0 dBmV. Could you go lower than 0 dBmV, yes, maybe down to -3 dBmV. I wouldn’t recommend going any lower. If your cable system is running properly, you won’t have anywhere near those signal levels. But, you’ll have to check that to see where their at.
So, that leads to the MoCA amplifier which is probably more appropriate. The Antronix amp which Rogers might have on hand is the MVRA502B:
https://www.antronix.com/pdf/ds-1150-ar-mvra502b.pdf
Rogers might also have the MVRAM502B/ACP-EZ which would be useful if Roges was going to change its upstream channel frequencies to allow higher frequencies. I don’t know if that will ever happen, but, that’s a question to ask a tech.
https://www.antronix.com/pdf/ds-1149-ar-a02_mvram502b-acp-ez.pdf
The next choice would be a MVRAM901B-G2
https://www.antronix.com/pdf/ds-1183-ar-a01_mvram901b_g2.pdf
This would be overkill in terms of the number of ports on it, but, it would make sense as the conventional splitters that Rogers is using these days run from 5 Mhz up to 1218 Mhz. So, this amp matches up with those splitters with a max frequency of 1218 Mhz.
For the PPC amplifiers, the amps that I would suggest are the PPC-5M-U/UPI which comes with a Power Inserter. The PPC-5M-U/UPS has a power supply with a built in Power Inserter. Now, fwiw, here’s an amazon.ca page for the PPC-5M-U/U which is shown with the power inserter.
https://www.amazon.ca/Active-Return-5-Port-Amplifier-PPC-5M-U/dp/B086R3HCF2
For the upstairs location where the modem and cable tv box are located, you would need a 2 port high frequency splitter such as the satellite splitters on this page:
The Screenbeam two adapter kit comes with a splitter.
Ok, that should keep you going for a little while. Here’s some other tasks:
1. What modem do you have, a CGN3 or CODA-4582 modem? In both cases, you can log into the modem, navigate to the DOCSIS WAN tab and copy the signal data. Park your curser in front of the Downstream Overview line, hold the shift key down and scroll down and to the right, all the way to just after the last character in the bottom OFDMA section if you have a CODA-4582, or after the last character in the upstream overview section in the case of the CGN3 modem. Release the shift key, right click …. Select Copy. Then in a new post, right click …. Select Paste. That should paste in the table as it appears in the modem’s UI.
2. In the basement, where you have access to the cables, check the cable jacket for the cable type. For older homes, its probably RG-59 which is less than ideal for MoCA purposes. For newer homes, it should be RG-6. So, somewhere on the cable jacket you should see one of those two numbers printed.
3. Pull off one of the wallplates which has a cable port on it and see if there are other cables tucked in behind the wallplate, waiting to be discovered and put to use. This leads to a question of whether or not you might have structured wiring in your home, which is a cable bundle which runs from the basement Structured Wiring Cabinet up to each room upstairs. That bundle usually consists of two RG-6 cables for cable tv or satellite, one Cat-5 or Cat 5e for data and one Cat-3 for telephones, possibly replaced by a Cat-5 or Cat-5e. Contractors will typically connect one cable end on one of the cables and tuck the rest in behind the wallplate, which then has to be discovered by the homeowner.
4. Consider buying a network cable tester to check the upstairs cable runs. We’ve run into situations with splitters buried in the walls. As those splitters aren’t MoCA qualified, it stops the project in its tracks when it can’t be located. Here’s an example:
What you would do with that is connect the transmitter to one of the cables in the basement that leads to one of the upstairs rooms. Then, upstairs, connect the receiver to each cable port that you have upstairs and confirm that only one cable port upstairs matches the transmitter cable location in the basement. If you live in an older home, there’s a good chance that there might be a splitter buried in the wall. This method isn’t foolproof as its possible to have a buried splitter with just one cable leading out of it. That buried splitter will stop any MoCA frequencies from passing thru to the upstairs room. So, all one can do is check for any readily visible cross connections in the upstairs rooms and hope that there isn’t any buried splitter present.
5. When you have this figured out, in terms of the adapter that you’re looking to purchase, call tech support and ask if Rogers will supply a MoCA amplifier. If yes, then a field tech will be assigned to drop by, hopefully to drop off an amplifier. The tricky part here is that you’re at the mercy of what he happens to have available that day. The amplifiers that I listed above would do the job in terms of having the upper frequency range necessary to support MoCA 2.0/2.5 extended D-Band frequencies. I would also ask the tech for a MoCA filter, which I would install on the modem, and for a couple of 75 ohm terminators, one of which would cover the unused port on the amplifier. For a larger 8 port MVRAM901B-G2 you would need 5 terminators. They look like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Type-75-Ohm-Terminator-Pack/dp/B000AAN76Y
6. I’d also recommend replacing the F-81 connectors that are currently in the wallplates with higher frequency connectors. Here’s an example of a 3 Ghz connector:
7. For reference purposes, have a read thru the following previous post:
Ok, I think that’s it for now ……
Hi @JiveMiguel
The first item on the list of things to do is to check for the presence of any ethernet cabling. If you pull off one of the wallplates that has a telephone or perhaps coax connector on it, look for any other cabling that might be tucked in behind the wallplate. The other place to look is in the Structured Wiring Cabinet which is usually located in the basement. That cabinet is usually white in colour, and make out of nylon or perhaps metal, just depends on who made it. Within that cabinet you should find the start or termination point for the RG-6(?) cables that run upstairs and perhaps Cat-5 or Cat-5e cabling that has been used for telephone purposes.
The question is, are there other RG-6(?) cables that aren’t finished with connectors and therefore not in use, and are there any Cat-5 or Cat-5e cables that also aren’t finished with connectors and also not in use?
If it turned out that you had ethernet cabling installed but not in use, that would be a game changer, as all you would have to do is finish up the connector installation, install an unmanaged gigabit or muli-gig switch near or potentially in the cabinet and voila, you have house wide ethernet. You wouldn’t have to consider using MoCA adapters, or at least not for the upstairs rooms. If it turned out that you had ethernet cabling that you could put to use, the next question is whether or not you could still install one or two runs downstairs to the same location as the coax port, or has that been completely finished and not accessible?
The other thought is converting any telephone cabling to ethernet purposes. If you look at the Structured Wiring Cabinet, your house telephone cabling probably connects to a 66 block. That block looks like this:
https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/punch-block
https://tombuildsstuff.blogspot.com/2015/02/how-to-wire-66-block.html
The cable that might have been used for the house telephone system might in fact be Cat-5e ethernet. The cable jacket would probably be blue or grey. On the cable jacket, along with a collection of data, you should see Cat-5e (potentially or, Cat-5) printed.
Where this is going is to a question of whether or not you actually use the house telephone system, or like many others, do you simply use a cell phone, with no plans to ever use the house phone?
If that’s the case, and the cabling turns out to be Cat-5 or preferably Cat-5e, then that cable can be repurposed as ethernet cabling. It would require removal from the 66 block and upstairs telephone connectors, installation of Cat-5 connectors at both ends and installation of the correct keystones and wallplates upstairs. That isn’t difficult to do, but it does require some tools and patience to install the connectors correctly. It also requires a network tester as I pointed out earlier to ensure that the connector installation was completed correctly. I’ve walked others thru this with successful conclusions, and then, there is also Youtube “University” which can answer just about any question you can think of.
When that is done, install an unmanaged gigabit or multi-gig switch at the Structured Wiring Cabinet and you would be ready to go.
So, that’s the first step, check out the cabling situation. As for the coax cables themselves, they should be RG-6, but you’ll need to check that out. Its probably easier to check the cable jackets at the Structured Wiring Cabinet. As with the telephone cabling, along with an assortment of data on the cable jacket, you should also see RG-6 printed within the data. You might see RG-59, but, hopefully not.
Fwiw, our home was built in 2004/2005 and fitted with Structured Wiring which included dual RG-6 and dual Cat-5e cabling for telephones and ethernet. It wasn’t totally finished up so I installed the correct connectors and keystones and an unmanaged gigabit switch. That has worked very well over the years. Once its finished, you have a lot of flexibility in terms of running data around the house. Too bad the installers installed Cat-5 instead of Cat-6. So, I suspect that your house probably has RG-6 and Cat-5e for telephone cables.
RG-59 has higher signal losses in the upper frequency range where MoCA systems operate. It wouldn’t prevent you from using a MoCA system, but, you probably wouldn’t see the max performance out of the MoCA system. RG-59 doesn’t have the same level of shielding on it and typically has a smaller center copper conductor. End result, it doesn’t perform to the same level for the same length of RG-6.
https://readytogocables.com/what-is-the-difference-between-rg59-and-rg6/
@Datalink Thank you again for your help.
I’ve had a little time this weekend to review your checklist. Here’s what I found so far:
The cable running into the house has no indication that it is an RG-6.
I found 3 ethernet cables in the basement next to all the cable wires. There are also ethernet cables sticking out near our Rogers box – two blue ethernet cables with no jacks were bunched together with an hdmi cable – there is a bell satellite receiver on one side of the house so would these be the cables for that? Also these cables sticking out clearly says cat-6 while the ones in the basement don’t. There is also a coax cable that is labeled cbl/sat out that isn’t hooked up anything (I am not sure if it's a split signal with my Rogers set top box). Also, I do not know where that yellow ethernet cable below ends.
There are also four white cat-5e cables where the blue cat6/hdmi cables are sticking out from. I don’t really know where these lead to. I checked the structured wiring cabinet in the basement and just saw a bunch of thin cables inside the white cabinet. Do those cat-5e cables end there?
I also looked inside one of the wall plates and only saw coaxial cables. Should I check all the other wall plates or would they just be same?
Hope this isn’t too confusing. Yes, your suggestion of house wide ethernet would really be amazing but I would probably have to hire someone to install that for me. I thought of moca because I could probably do it on my own without having to fish for cables inside the walls.
Thank you again.
-
3801 views
-
7 Likes
-
-
