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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 41

Re: MoCA

Apparently, the only  hardware that works is Asus.. Anyway.. getting back to MOCA.. Here's a link to SNB, that has MOCA discussions.

 

http://www.snbforums.com/forums/moca-homeplug-hpna.34/

 

Enjoy!

I'm an Advisor
Posts: 928

Re: MoCA


@AlMoranis wrote:

Thank you for your advice to use prudence and discretion, Vivien.  I wonder what you're referring to when you say "I would be very nervous about running any kind of MoCA gear (especially from the Netgears and D-Links of the world, i.e. companies not renowned for top-quality gear) on coax cable that's also used for Rogers."  It would be helpful to me if you could clarify.

 

Reading DataLink's post, I understand that installing splitters that are within the frequency spectrum that supports MoCA (i.e. minimum 1675 mHZ to 2gHZ) may not produce any potentially harmful signal issues.

 

Please elaborate on your comment "If you have a spare run of coax from the basement to a room, and you want to run MoCA on that, then... great."

 

Finally, exactly what do you mean " potentially moody MoCA gear to the 'live' Rogers cable"?  What gear is or are these?

 

My objective is to explore other options that enable me to eliminate buffering or freezing with video streaming, withoiut resorting to the expensive and non-feasible hard-wired  but reliable ethernet connection.  I don't know if MoCA adapters will do the trick.  What I am experiencing is that Wi-Fi and Powerline just aren't reliable at this time.

 

 


What I was concerned about, fundamentally, is dubious-quality gear that, instead of only sending on the MoCA frequencies, caused interference on the frequencies (under 860MHz) used by Rogers and therefore could cause problems with your Internet/TV/home phone or, worse, your neighbours'. I don't know to what extent this is a real problem or not. Obviously, if you are using a dedicated piece of coax cable that doesn't have the Rogers signal on it, this avoids the risk. I also don't know if you can put filters somehow on the coax (something that blocks all frequencies below 1GHz coming out of the MoCA gear) to block this...

 

I'm not sure your conclusion that "wi-fi and powerline aren't reliable" is looking at the right things. I've had horrible luck the one time I've tried a powerline setup (for my parents) using D-Link gear (it started losing mad packets after a few months) , but then again, other non-powerline D-Link gear has given me trouble too. So was the problem powerline technology, or was it just D-Link being D-Link?

 

You may have given us this information earlier (if so I'm sorry), but can you tell us what brands/models of both networking and client hardware you were using? A cheap tablet/Windows laptop with single band wifi connected to a cheap router (or a Rogers gateway) is going to give a very different result than a good-quality device connecting at 5GHz to a good router/access point. I hope you were doing 5GHz wifi; in my view, in most urban areas, 2.4GHz is too congested to be reliable for high-bitrate video streaming. 

 

Finally, I want to suggest another option. You can now buy 'flat' Cat5E Ethernet cables (I got mine from Amazon, I can check the brand if you're interested). I've got one that I use to connect the upstairs area in my condo to the area downstairs; it's not the absolute prettiest thing around, but it's much easier to route around corners or, if applicable, doors/windows than the traditional twisted-pair network cable. And it's cheap compared to MoCA gear, powerline gear, or smashing drywall to install Cat6 in the walls. 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 11

Re: MoCA

Hi, Vivien:

 

Thank you for your response.  Currently, I have an Asus desktop PC on an ethernet connection to my TPLink C7 Archer router and a 5-year old MSI laptop that connects on our wireless network.  We have an Apple TV box in the LR (connected by TPLink powerline wireless adapter) and second Apple TV in the basement which connects via wireless.  Tried a 3rd TPLink powerline adapter in the basement and that's where I experience the freezing and the buffering.  Tried a 3rd TPLink powerline connection but electrical wiring may be a problem.  We also experience the same problem in the LR connection but not as bad.

 

I told Rogers what my problem was and the had me swap my CGN3 modem with the CGNACR unit which experiences similar problems.  I have the modem inb bridge mode to the router.

 

I purchased a pair of Actiontec MoCA adapters, but it seems my Antronix splitter  (5 to 1050 mHZ) at the demarc box (cable box outside) are below the MoCA minimum (at least 1675 mHz). So they don't work either.

 

Before I return the Actiontec adapters, I'd like to give this internal coax network alternative one last try.  I'm thinking of purchasing a higher frequency splitter (5-2050 mHz like this one by Dynex from Best Buy http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/dynex-3-way-coaxial-splitter-dx-av101/10091527.aspx?path=e43f46f... and request a Rogers tech to replace the Antronix unit.  They may not do it but worth a try.  Or I can have an electrician buddy of mine do it.

 

The flat ethernet cable option could be my last resort.  But if it'll run over 100 ft., it may pose problems.  So, I'm told.

 

I'd be interested in what you think about this.

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,140

Re: MoCA

That splitter should work.  If there isn't a Lowes close by, yup, that would do as well.  The only problem is that you need a MOCA POE (Point of Entry) filter ahead of the splitter so that you don't backfeed the neighborhood cable network with your MoCA network signals.  They look like this:

 

http://www.antronix.com/antronix-Products-Satellite.php

 

I would drop by the nearest Rogers store and ask if they have any on hand, or, if you see a Rogers Van in the neighborhood, ask the tech if you can get one from him or her.  For some reason, they don't appear to be easy to find in Canada, which is ridiculous.  If that doesn't work, call tech support and ask to have a tech come out to install a MoCA filter ahead of the splitter.  Just ensure that its a freebie.  Once that is done, you shouldn't have any issues swapping out the splitter by your self. 

 

You could also buy the MoCA filter yourself:

 

http://tvsetstore.com/product/filter-moca-poe-filter-for-cable-tv-coaxial-networking-only/

 

If you pick up one of those spitters, set up a test network from your modem thru the MoCA devices and into a pc or laptop.  You will need the splitter and  two short RG-6 cables with connectors installed. 

 

1.  Connect the first MoCA device to the modem via ethernet;

2.  Connect that MoCA device via RG-6 cable to one of the output ports of the splitter;

3.  Connect the other RG-6 cable to the second ouput port and then to the second MoCA device;

4.  Connect the ethernet output of the second MoCA device to a pc or laptop;

5.  Power up both MoCA devices and run a speedtest with the pc or laptop when the network has fired up.  Use http://speedcheck.rogers.com/en.html and the www.speedtest.net Toronto Telus server for speedtests.

 

The input port does not have to be connected to anything as all you're testing at this point is the throughput, into one of the splitter ports and out thru the other. 

 

That will give you an idea of the max data rate you could expect to see, and when the network is really up and running, using the house cables, you will know how well or how poorly it is performing compared to two very short cable runs. 

 

When that is done, connect the two MoCA adapters together with one RG-6 cable, leaving out the splitter.  Run the same test and see what the results look like.  If the splitter is ok, you should see very little difference in data rates.  If there is a large difference, then you know that the splitter isn't doing the job and most likely doesn't have the frequency response that you need on the output ports. 

 

Edit:  Doing some further reading, that Dynex splitter, and others has been discontinued by Dynex, although Bestbuy proabably still carries them in stock.  The one concern that I have is the input frequency response on the output ports, if you see what I'm saying. That splitter is a power passing splitter for satellite ops, which means that it will pass some level of DC voltage from the receiver, up thru the splitter to the dish LNBs for transponder control.  That doesn't necessarily mean that it has good frequency response above DC voltage when passing a signal into the splitter from the output ports.  I would hate to see that bring this experiment to a screeching halt.   Ideally you would find something like this:

 

http://www.hollandelectronics.com/catalog/upload_file/GHS-PRO-M.pdf

 

These are MoCA qualified splitters. What I'm not sure of at the moment is how effective they are at blocking the MoCA signals from travelling outside of the splitter via the input port. Its not really clear on the spec sheet.  But, thats easy to deal with by simply installing a MoCA filter between that and the incoming cable. 

 

It looks like those splitters are available thru Amazon.com for a reasonable price.  The Canadian prices on Amazon.ca are nuts, to say the least.  There has to be some store in Canada that retails these for a reasonable cost.  Just haven't found it yet.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 11

Re: MoCA

Travelling to US for March break so I'll pick up the Holland splitter and that POE filter.  Best to just return the Best Buy DYNEX splitter and not take any chances. I tried to upload a pdf photo of my Antronix splitter but it was too large (over 1000).  The splitter has 3 output ports with cables connected to each.  And an empty in-port.  Where does the POE filter connect?  To each out port on the splitter?

I'll figure out the steps you detailed for testing the through-put.

But, Data-link, thanks very much.  Your information is much appreciated.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 11

Re: MoCA

DataLink,

 

You also recommended this splitter by IDEAL which I can order at a local Lowes store.  If this'll work I'm returning the Dynex and going for this one instead. I'll have to find a local Lowes store close by.  Pretty much committed to making this work.  I lost internet connectivity yesterday and Rogers tech came by to fix the problem.  He replaced the RG59s with RG6s so I'm pretty much set.  No dice on the POEs, however.  Looks like I'll have to bite the bullet on that one and see what I'll have to pay to get them from amazon.ca.  Please let me know if the IDEAL will work.  Thanks. 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 11

Re: MoCA

Those POE filters, do I only need one at the main box?  The tech installed another Antronix splitter that splits a cable run to my basement and  the LR.  I'll need a second MoCA splitter there.  Will that require a second POE as well?

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: MoCA

Just wondering if there has been any success on the MoCa front.  I have found some evidence that other Rogers users have been able to get this working:

 

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/37-rogers-cable-tv/149521-using-moca-ethernet-over-coax-rogers.html

 

I have been happily using PowerLine adapters for years and only recently have run into performance problems using this technology.  I moved to a new home that has been constructed to the latest code requiring AFCI (Arc fault breakers) in bedrooms.  It is my understanding that these breakers cause problems for PowerLine adapters.

My office is in a spare bedroom and my through-put is a fraction of what I am accustomed (the through put at the cable modem and router are as expected).

 

This room does have an unused coax run that I was hoping to use in place of the PowerLine adapter and my research turned me on to the MoCa adapters from Actiontec.

 

Having Whole Home PVR setup next week (where I expect they will install a MoCa filter and place my Nextbox's in a Moca network).  I have not been able to ascertain if this will work with a Whole Home PVR setup or not, but I suspect (as with everything else) the answer is 'it depends'.

 

I was hoping anyone who has gotten the MoCa adapter to work with a Whole Home setup could comment.

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,140

Re: MoCA

Only question that I have at this point is whether or not your home might have structured wiring installed.  That is a wire bundle consisting of two RG-6 cables for Cable TV and/or Satellite, one Cat 3 or Cat 5/5e cable for telephone and one Cat 5e/6 for ethernet.  If you look behind any wallplate that has a cable or telephone connector on it, you might see the remainder of that bundle, waiting to be discovered and put to use.  If that is installed, it will make ethernet data distribution around the house a simple task to complete.  

 

If you don't have structured wiring, but for some reason have two RG-6 cables installed to all locations and are only using one at each location to support the modem or any Cable TV receivers, that will allow you to run an inhouse private cable system dedicated to MoCA adapters.  That network won't interact with the Rogers signal distribution at all.  Thats actually an ideal situation if you have to use MoCA adapters as it will allow those adapters to use the full bandwith that they are designed to operate in.  You would need to install compression connectors on all of the cables that you intend to use for the MoCA network, and if you are only planning on using two cables to go point to point, you can connect them with the following barrel connector which is a 3Ghz high frequency connector, supporting satellite and extended MoCA 2.0 frequencies.  All of the wallplates in your home which have barrel connectors should have this installed instead of the usual contractor installed connectors.

 

https://www.lowes.ca/coax-cable/ideal-3-ghz-f-splice-adapter-4-pack_g1200823.html

 

If you are planning on running an internal network with more than two cables you would need a three port, four port, etc, MoCA 2.0 qualified splitter.  The MoCA 2.0 qualification will ensure that the splitter will have the frequency response that supports the higher MoCA frequencies.  A MoCA 2.0 splitter will have "MoCA 2.0" indicated on the splitter.  You would most likely have to purchase this online:

 

 

http://starbursttechnologies.com/portfolio_page/moca-2-0-5-1675-mhz-splitter/

 

I would also look specifically for a MoCA 2.0 adapter set which will be more expensive but it will support higher data rates.  

 

http://www.actiontec.com/338.html

 

So, first thing I would do is look for the remaining structured wiring bundle behind a wallplate or possibly downstairs in the structured wiring cabinet, where the wire bundles to the rest of the house should start.



Highlighted
I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: MoCA

Thank you for the detailed response.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have structured wiring.  What I do have is Cat5e and RG-6 run to a number of locations including the room that was converted to be my office.

 

The Cat5e is used for the telephone/fax and the Rg-6 is setup but unused (not connected to a set-top currently)

 

My options were to either repurpose the Cat5e and lose my office telephone/fax line or repurpose the RG-6. 

I like the idea of a private cable network (between my office and the router in the basement) to regain my bandwidth.

 

Thank you for the info.