IP address wrong location

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 5,828

Re: IP address wrong location

@gamwashere this keeps coming up in the forum from time to time, thru no fault of Rogers or any other ISP in the world.  I might be wrong here, but I don't believe that any ISP, in any country, has any obligation to inform all of the various Geo-location services where each individual subscriber is located.  I suspect that if that where to happen, the Privacy Commissioner would be all over the offending ISP, and for good cause.  The Geo-location services eventually work out general locations, some close, some not so close thru their own methods.  If there is a problem, then the Geo-location company should be taken to task.  The same goes for any company that sells services of goods based solely on the output of Geo-location service.  Those services make mistakes, and that happens all the time.  In some case it has led to lawsuits against Geo-locations services due to their carelessness in assigning an IP address to a specific geographic location that has absolutely nothing to do with any given IP address. 

 

My guess is that the CSR who suggested a modem swap was really trying to help, but at the end of the day, the ISPs really have no control over where the Geo-location service decides to park an IP address or range of IP addresses.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: IP address wrong location

@Datalink - So where does that leave us?  Are you saying it is not the ISP that maintains the GeoLocation tags for the IPs that they assign?  It was my understanding that Geo-location companies simply maintain a database of the Geo-locations that they harvest from the ISP tagged IP location information.  I actually did contact one Geo-Location company and submitted a change request, but they informed me that it will only update their database, not the others that are out there.  So, this seems like a band-aid solution.  They must be pulling data from somewhere to create their IP Geo-Location databases, it doesn't sound like they are the ones assigning the locations to the IPs at all.   Who holds the root location identifier records for an IP, if it isn't Rogers?

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 5,828

Re: IP address wrong location

I suspect that you're correct in terms of the companies harvesting the IP locations.  But, you have to remember there is some cycle time to that.  How often does that happen?  Once a month, once a year?  Who knows?  Its possible that the change over was due to the introduction of IPV6, after which your primary address become an IPV6 address, just speculating.  That address probably didn't exist before, or if it did, its very possible that addresses have been moved around and are still being moved around as the IPV6 deployment continues.  If thats the case, then Rogers internal database may not reflect the correct change, and if that IP address is then harvested by some company, its in error.  As you indicated, the company that you dealt with was willing to update its own database, but not cooperate with any other company to do the same.  So, yup, it certainly does look like a band-aid solution, but, every company probably pulls records on its own schedule, and until Rogers updates its database, followed by all of the other companies updating their databases, you're going to see errors.  Over time those errors should resolve themselves, but how long it will take is anyone's guess. 

 

Edit:  Here's another thread with the same issue:

 

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30958404-Detecting-wrong-location-via-IP-on-Playstation-Vue

 



Network Architect
Network Architect
Posts: 611

Re: IP address wrong location

Geo-location services have access to multiple data sources. The primary source is the Regional Internet Registries (ARIN for North America). This database will indicate that the IP belongs to Rogers and is therefore likely in Canada.

 

That is a start but far from being sufficient in a large country. In order to reach their target which is to link an IP to a city or even a neighbourhood, these geo-location services harvest data from other sources. For example, Google maintains geo-location tables based on information submitted from Android phones GPS and WiFi networks in range. Other companies may harvest data from certain websites where users tend to submit their locations (weather website for example). The way each provider manages to link an IP to a location is usually proprietary (it is their secret sauce).

 

In any case, this is not an exact science and when a ISP re-allocates IP address blocks from one region to another (often necessary during network upgrades), the process fails and it can take a few days or weeks for all the providers to update their databases. Some providers may be faster than others but they will eventually converge to the proper location.

 

As an ISP, we unfortunately have no easy way to provide this information to all the providers out there.

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: IP address wrong location

"@gamwashere this keeps coming up in the forum from time to time, thru no fault of Rogers or any other ISP in the world."

 

That may be true with day-to-day browsing but where this absolutely does become Rogers fault is when they use GeoLocation to determine your whereabouts for NHL GameCentre Live. I got my Rogers internet back in May and noticed right away that my GeoLocation came up as Markham when I'm actually in Ottawa. The internet at my friend's house where I used to live also had this issue. 

 

But here's where it absolutely becomes Rogers' fault. I am a fan of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Because of the (archaic, stupid and pointless, but we won't go there) blackouts for local games I cannot watch any Leafs games through GameCentre because my GeoLocation places me in the "local" area for the Leafs. Every time I try to watch a game it gives me the error message saying that it is a local game and has been blacked out. 

 

I opened a ticket in June, follwed up twice in August, called 3 times and escalated 2 times and it still shows me in Markham. It's a bit absurd that Rogers relies on a technology that they have no control over to verify subscribers locations. Rogers owns the NHL rights, administer and provide GameCentre and I'm on Rogers internet and yet all three of these items cannot work together. A bit ridiculous if you ask me and 100% Rogers' fault for using a technology they have no influence over. 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: IP address wrong location



As an ISP, we unfortunately have no easy way to provide this information to all the providers out there.

 


Then why have you chosen to employ this technology to verify the location of NHL GameCentre Live subscribers? I've been waiting for 5 months to have this fixed so that GameCentre doesn't black out "local" Leafs games because my GeoLocation thinks I'm in Toronto instead of Ottawa.

 

A bit absurd that you would use a technology that cannot be altered by Rogers in order to verify information for one of your own services. 

 

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: IP address wrong location

The key here is the phrasing "No EASY way".  They could do it but it would be, you know, HARD.  So forget about, right?  I mean, we're just customers.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: IP address wrong location

Exactly. Every person I've talked to has said "oh we really hope this fixes it this time." I don't want your emtpy words, I want a solution to a problem that I have known about for 5 months! And to make matters worse, I was told it was going to be escalated twice, it never was. Then after I chatted for 3 hours a week ago and nothing changed, I chatted again last night only to be told that last weeks' ticket had been marked as "resolved."

I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 7

Re: IP address wrong location

What Geolocation DB does NHL.TV/Rogers NHL Gamecenter use?  Im in Ottawa but my IP Geolocates to Missassauga, at one IP Geo DB.  3 others correctly have me in Ottawa and 1 has me in Vancouver!  I couldn't see anyway to contact the DB provider to correct the issue.  Couldn't Rogers just use our Address on File rather than relying on some inherintly unreliable technology (at least for city data, stats have it at only 55-70% reliable, though its close to 95% at the country level).

 

Ironically I want to watch the Leafs so I am being blacked out when I shouldn't be. 

 

As a workaround I can use the phone app and cast it to my TV as it uses actual location services with GPS but this is inconvenient and I don't think its the same 60fps stream the AppleTV uses.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 10

Re: IP address wrong location

Not sure which database they use, but it must be the one that has you in Mississauga. I have the exact same issue as you. Three of the databases have me in Ottawa, 1 in Markham and 1 in Vancouver. Same thing, Leaf games are blacked out for me. 

 

Ironically I've been watching illegal streams while simultaneously having a valid GameCentre account and paying for Rogers internet. And these morons can't figure out why piracy is so prevalent. Why they use a technology that they have no control over and can't troubleshoot (even when given 5 months to try) is beyond me. 

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