Change to Email Terms of Sevice

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@JKnottwrote:

"Yahoo collects personal information when you register with Yahoo"

 

I didn't register with Yahoo.  I was using Rogers email and found myself on Yahoo as a result of a business decision by Rogers.  My agreement was with Rogers, not Yahoo and most certainly not with Oath.


Me too!

Rogers made that business decision and needs to be held accountable.

My agreement also is with Rogers and not Yahoo and most certainly not with Oath as you have pointed out.

And does anyone notice that our email addresses end in rogers.com instead of rogersyahoo.com?

Rogers owns our email addresses. NOT Yahoo/Oath.

hmmm? Now answer me that!

And I'm totally fed up with hearing about that those rogers.com emails are complimentary and free. NO THEY ARE NOT. And refer to Yahoo/Oath. I SIGNED UP WITH ROGERS. NOT YAHOO. AND NOT OATH.

I have confirmation from several Rogers agents I have spoken with that I PAY for my rogers.com email addresses with my Rogers internet service contract.  FACT.

 

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 2

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Having read all the commentary and reviewed what has been said by Rogers and its representatives, I remain troubled by Rogers continued insistence that the issue is Yahoo-Verizon and not Rogers Communications. Until experiencing a loss of revenue over at least a quarter, Rogers is unlikely to do anything more than stall. Questions I now have:

1. Is this apparent disclaimer and "spin" (with its hints of background action) simply a way of "running out the clock" until it is too late or too difficult to switch seamlessly to another provider?

2. According to Rogers, a month's notice is required to cancel internet service. What happens if I don't "swear to OATH", do I get a refund for disconnection or do I have to make alternate arrangements now in order to maintain some form of connectivity?

3. Since I have used a "signature" type of e-mail address for all my contacts for more than a decade, how soon do I notify my contacts that it will be changing shortly and offer them an explanation (and a warning about off-shore monitoring if they continue to try my old address)?

3. Having ascertained that using another Internet provider will not impact my home monitoring (checking alternatives can wait until the e-mail fiasco is settled), I am able to switch as soon as Fibe can install a modem, what is a reasonable length of time to allow contacts to update their lists?

4. Do Rogers corporate users have to agree to the same invasive monitoring and OATH-Verizon terms?

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 17

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@JOHN105wrote:

Having read all the commentary and reviewed what has been said by Rogers and its representatives, I remain troubled by Rogers continued insistence that the issue is Yahoo-Verizon and not Rogers Communications. Until experiencing a loss of revenue over at least a quarter, Rogers is unlikely to do anything more than stall. Questions I now have:

 

...

...

4. Do Rogers corporate users have to agree to the same invasive monitoring and OATH-Verizon terms?

 

 


John105, I think this is a very good question !! I wonder how we could find this out? I can't imagine Rogers would subjecting corporate clients to this nonsense. Another poster reported being told by someone at Rogers that we will not be cut off if never accept the Oath OS, we will just continue to be bound by the existing Rogers TOS. I wonder if this is even technically possible, or whether Oath would simply invade our privacy as if we had accepted, ie "if you continue to use the service you are deemed  to accept" etc... but if it's true, then perhaps we just all continue to click "I'll do it later" and eventually they'll stop asking...

I've Been Around
Posts: 1

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

An article about legalese (including Rogers email) in the Globe and Mail

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/clickable-agreements-contract-law-1.4634780

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@thePhippwrote:

@rharding0wrote:
Excellent story in the Globe last night by Christine Dobby. She updated her previous story sfter speaking to the Canadian Privacy Commisioners office and Rogers CEO, Joe Natale.

Sounds like Oath is definitely violating the law as far as the permissions we have to give so they can mine contact info and send them advertising using your own email address. The Rogers CEO wasn't as meek as his spokespeople yesterday, he was actually quite forceful about how seriously they take customers privacy. Guess we'll have to wait and see, but we're definitely having an impact.

Here's a link to the updated Globe story by Christine Dobby. She deserves all our thanks for getting this out in the open so quickly.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-rogers-terms-of-service-asks-e-mail-users-to-share-...

The Globe article is in my assessment excellent, accurate, thoughtful, well-supported by qualified legal opinion. This should be required reading for every Rogers customer before they accept the Oath terms, and perhaps should be pinned at the top of this thread.


@thePhipp

@rharding0

100% agree with what both of you have said and very well said too.

Have read the updated article and it's quite telling to me the lack of response from Oath's CEO.

Good to know that the Rogers CEO wasn't meek in response either.

And lets pat ourselves on the back too as many of us Rogers customers are the mouse that roars so-to-speak.

Oath just thought we'd accept their TOS and not examine the fine print without giving it a second thought.

They were sure wrong about that!

Certainly wouldn't want to be in the Oath CEO shoes at the moment. *eek* He must be under a lot of fire as they say.

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@JOHN105wrote:

Having read all the commentary and reviewed what has been said by Rogers and its representatives, I remain troubled by Rogers continued insistence that the issue is Yahoo-Verizon and not Rogers Communications. Until experiencing a loss of revenue over at least a quarter, Rogers is unlikely to do anything more than stall. Questions I now have:

1. Is this apparent disclaimer and "spin" (with its hints of background action) simply a way of "running out the clock" until it is too late or too difficult to switch seamlessly to another provider?

2. According to Rogers, a month's notice is required to cancel internet service. What happens if I don't "swear to OATH", do I get a refund for disconnection or do I have to make alternate arrangements now in order to maintain some form of connectivity?

3. Since I have used a "signature" type of e-mail address for all my contacts for more than a decade, how soon do I notify my contacts that it will be changing shortly and offer them an explanation (and a warning about off-shore monitoring if they continue to try my old address)?

3. Having ascertained that using another Internet provider will not impact my home monitoring (checking alternatives can wait until the e-mail fiasco is settled), I am able to switch as soon as Fibe can install a modem, what is a reasonable length of time to allow contacts to update their lists?

4. Do Rogers corporate users have to agree to the same invasive monitoring and OATH-Verizon terms?

 

 


All very good questions and very well said too.

Number 4. really stands out to me. We Rogers home users are just as important as Rogers corporate users.

Not every Rogers agent I've spoken with has agreed that it's the issue with Yahoo/Oath/Verizon solely. They have agreed with me that Rogers Communications is part of the issue as well. They have also verified that they own the rogers.com email addresses and can fully rectify the issue by having Yahoo/Oath/Verizon held fully accountable for not honouring their subcontract agreement with Rogers Communications by violating Rogers customers privacy rights or by severing their contract with Yahoo/Oath/Verizon completely and have their rogers.com email addresses hosted on Rogers Communication email servers. It's doable.

A lot of  ISPs I have ever come across, in managing/owning my own computer consulting business, is that each and everyone one of those ISPs has full email services for their customers and not partnered with another corporate entity. Rogers Communications has the capability of giving us a high quality email service done by Rogers Communications and solely by Rogers Communications.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@MikeOWaterloowrote:

An article about legalese (including Rogers email) in the Globe and Mail

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/clickable-agreements-contract-law-1.4634780

 


Thanks very much for posting that link.

It's a very good read and all of us Rogers customers should be reading that.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

What a great article - basics suggest in the long run, as has been done in the EU, we in Canada need to be pushing for clear legislative laws (which Oath tried to walk around, and pressure from users and I am going to guess, in private and confidentially, Rogers put pressure to - or at least I hope they did - they are going to have to answer to the commissioners question, as has Facebook and Google in the round of meetings started two weeks ago, coincidently, just before this whole mess came forward).

 

So I would also suggest that there needs to be legislation that holds companies like rogers or any company for that matter that refers us to services outside of our country to ensure that those companies live up to the standards of Canadian law and that if they don't they are held accountable - means for a corporation to refer to a service, they must ensure that Canadian Law is met - I hold that Rogers is currently going to have to answer for their role in this because they are the ones who facilitate the use of their domain address, tied to our Rogers accounts, whether they call it free or optional or whatever they want to say (I say it is a part of our service as they provide that service and access, so they are accountable for it no matter who they subcontract to- but I think it is up to our courts and our legislatures to work this one out). I don't see Rogers coming out and saying, "we goofed", but I suspect they have served a role in attempting to get Oath in line with Canadian law.  We will only know once the commission hearings become finalized (maybe).

 

I have been sending this article to everyone I know -  It is our legislatures that the article is suggesting we have to push on, that contract law doesn't apply well in these circumstances.  Interesting though that the railway ruling of over 150 years ago about limiting rights, even if you haven't seen the notices, or even aware of them, has also been overrulled in principle with ski hills, parks, parking lots and others.  Most people don't sue in the courts on this one, but it appears that legal precedence is on our side, but that companies continue to try to convince us (if we even read it, and statistically I agree, most of us probably don't - I didn't use to, I will certainly do so, and often is there an option to opting out - if every parking lot rights the same notices, then where do we park, and then we have to sue).

 

So let's keep this issue up front.

 

This seems to be the trend, consider the new Wireless Code, new principles around transparency and clarity of instrumental terms with telecoms and new privacy laws - this is where we are going anyway.

 

But beware of those clicks when it says, you have read and understand, do not click until you do, and start overloading their systems that do this with questions.  We are hearing that we hear different messages in public form the two corporations Oath and Rogers on this one, and different statements by their staff as we dig for clarification.

 

I haven't had a staff yet that I spoke to disagree with me, and I refused to let them continue on their attempt to tell me it is my responsibility to read and choose - I just said, heard that all before - I am asking about Rogers responsibility in having chosen the company that they favour to give your Rogers email domain name and the ability for us to create 9 emails, one primary - and tied back to the connection that we are a customer with Rogers through the memberscentre (basically created to put more security in than Yahoo did) and it takes it out of their hands, as we, with guidance do all the work and agreeing.  But they picked the service to send us to and connect our services too, free or not (nothing is free, it is part of the service - the availability to create them, and part of their overhead and own privacy rules in the agreements in the members centre itself that is the portal to the mail.

 

As I have said before, you can't have it both ways.

 

Yes, the mice that roared has been very very loud.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Consider the following:

 

Rogers says we can opt out of our optionsal, free service, that they have no responsibility for, yet we can't change a primary email account, or cancel the email account without intervention from Rogers staff.  Also, be fully aware of the old terms (others have talked about it) that we are staying under by not agreeing to the new one.

 

So Rogers does have a role in this whole thing - they facilitate the ability for us to set up the emails, but they totally control the capability to change the primary account and to delete it.

 

Try explain their way out of that one - I wait to hear the explanation for that one.

 

Bruce

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Letter writing resumed today. 

 

I contacted the following.

PM Trudeau

My MP

Three Senators

CBC News

CTV News

MarketPlace

Erica Johnson at CBC Go Public

priv.gc.ca

 

I also sent the link and a model of a protest letter to all my contacts in hopes they will forward with their support. My worry is this could set precedence to allow other foreign countries to implement this type of invasion of privacy policy, regardless of the country’s laws.  If they get away with this, other ISPs will follow suit.

It will be difficult to get the genie back in the bottle.

 

https://services.priv.gc.ca/q-s/allez-go/eng/8b62761b-7100-4016-886c-0279a78670d6