Change to Email Terms of Sevice

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Yes, the phrase "optional" is very disingenuous for describing this whole situation.

 

For that matter, is anything in life not have an optional component to it - I need water to live, but it is optional whether I drink from the tap, or collect rainwater, scoop it from a well or a pond (if available), or buy it from another source.

 

It is optional whether to have Rogers Security systems, but if you do want to have one, it is not optional whether you have their Internet (my understanding).  So some options come with a cost.

 

The option of using their "free 9 email accounts" as advertised in the package is yours, but the access is branded under the Rogers name, they are facilitating the use of our Rogers user name and password which is facilitated through their single point of sign in systems to activate it in the first place - it is managed via their membercentre, branded under the Rogers logo, and in the massive terms documents, we find just how rogers has basically attempted to absolve themselves of any responsibility for what happens once we start using the system - it is all Oath then, yet the management is still occurring via the member centre (Rogers).

 

For some of us, we will remember rogers email as being owned, managed and run by Rogers, then subcontracted to Yahoo (makes sense to do that - email management and web portals are a pain to maintain and costly - consider how often we run into times we cannot access the MyRogers portal).

 

So just a bit of fun playing with this whole game, of lets confuse the public and the consumer with words, but ultimately, what are they saying in my view:

 

Allow me to rephrase.

 

Rogers provides you the ability to set up an account with Yahoo (Oath) where you can use your Rogers login to set up a Yahoo mail account which has the Rogers name in your email address.

 

Benefits of doing this - you only have one login name to remember - note your login can be the same or different - it is recommended that you do not use the same and follow secure password recommendations.

You can have 9 email addresses with the domain name @rogers.

 

Cons, you have more hoops to go through to create and use the Yahoo email than if you merely set it up with Yahoo.

You now have a portal related to Yahoo that adds an additional step to the management of your emails.

 

You now have two different privacy policies to think about - do read them all, and if it is the Oath policy, contact them for questions, if it is our's contact us.

 

We take no responsibility for anything beyond providing the management of the Portal and the use of it to facilitate the creation of a Yahoo email with @Rogers in the domain name for the email, rather than @yahoo.

 

There is no additional cost to having this access, and it is your choice whether you choose to use it.  No reduction in the cost of your service will occur if you choose to not use the service.

 

Well, that was fun - it looks like this will all roll out in the legal definitions that governments decide to apply on their respective.  We are left with an important question though if it holds that a company can move their storage and processing of a service, irrespective of where it is purchased or consumed, and the home country laws over secondary to that of the home country.  The question is to ask to be updated on just where the service is hosted, process and storage and access to those legal terms in order that we.

 

Boy, I never realized until now, how challenging it would become in this virtual world of communication and transactions, to be able to do your due diligence and protect yourself, and in this case, the privacy of our contacts and communications as well.

 

As they say, nothing in this world is free - so at this point, the Rogers access to the 9 rogers labelled email accounts held under Oath/yahoo/verizon, is not a service I can use, and so as stated before, I have the account active still, but I don't use it, it forwards nowhere, I pop in and if there is a real email - I contact that person and advise them of the risks to them of sending email to me on that account and I will contact them later using my alternative email - I won't put it a return email to them, because that can be read by Oath.

 

I am also considering developing a standard waiver on my email signature that says, that I will not correspond with anyone who has a yahoo/oath branded service or email, or uses the @rogers email name and request that they remove my contact and delete permanently any correspondence to me on their email, and that address will now be blocked permanently.

 

It will be my own waiver and statement of privacy, like we see at the bottom of legal documents via email and other things where companies advise you to destroy it if received in error and to contact the company so they can correct it.  That is from the old days of Faxes and attempting to protect privacy was what were known as statements of responsibilities for the recipient of an email.

 

And the saga continues.  I have a call coming from OOP.  I don't expect to hear that much from it, maybe I will get lucky and get some compensation for the inconvenience - a courtesy credit as they call it sometimes - they did create the situation for the inconvenience, but as asked earlier, I don't think it would be viewed as accepting responsibility for the outcome.

 

I am at a minimum making my views heard via a range of results - I expect my next step after OOP will be CCTC and Privacy commission. I could just "optionally" opt out, but these practices of companies can only come to and end, both by opting out, as well as making our voices be heard, and directly asking the questions of Rogers until we get a satisfactory answer and action from them.

 

I said it before - you can't have it both ways - if it is true that the Oath privacy policy is in violation of Canadian laws, and that in a way, their policy recognizes different laws, then since Rogers is providing the access I feel they have a responsibility to advise us of the contradiction in the presented policy, refer us to the exception for Canadian law, and clarify how Canadian law overrides it in that we can feel confident that we fully understand and understand the risks and protections present.

 

In the current model, I would rather they just drop provision of emails out unless they are going to have the service hosted in Canada under Canadian laws.  That is why I have opened the Proton Mail, as well as another unmentioned one.

 

Bruce

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 34

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Now looking at other email options and had a few questions...

If we don't have an @rogers.com email address anymore, will that hinder our My Rogers account or relationship with Rogers in any way?

If we don't store our contacts using Yahoo, would Oath still have access to our contacts? I guess they would via our emails?

It seems that not more than one Gmail address can be created within the same Google account. Is the solution to create another Google account in order to have an additional Gmail address, or is the same person not allowed to have more than one Google account?

Thanks.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@Cap07  So very true - I have huge respect for the moderators too, but the silence by them on this topic, implies that they are not permitted, or are basically unable to respond. The general vagueness by Rogers senior levels also means to me that they are fully sure what to say either, and that I am sure their legal department and upper levels responsible for that domain are working away at it to prepare for possible formal requests and questions by the Privacy commission, the CRTC, or other parties.  This whole area is in transition, and I have concluded that as frustrating as it is to be in the dark and grey areas of this, I have done what I can do, I have contacted Rogers and asked questions and expressed concerns, I have discussed what I have found during my due diligence process, and have moved my email fully to services that cost "real money", not in my privacy.  I have always understood that there is an element in the customer seller relationship where our information is being used beyond just the mere transaction, but also for future marketing, which in law, we are able to opt out of via the phone and other formats, but the reality of the world wide web and the virtual nature of how it works, has moved us into a territory that is far ahead of the moral and legal frameworks that existed in the non-digital world.

 

This situation has been a wake up call for me, and I am sure Rogers, and privacy commissions that the principles of protection and the ways in which our information can be used without our awareness has far surpassed the non-digital framework that was created prior and the preliminary early attempts to develop the concept of electronic virtual protections and disclosure.

 

It is a topic which must continue, but for now, I have done pretty much all that I can do, and it is time for me to step back and I will be continuing to educate on this one, and I may even begin to look closer at the terms of the email contacts that I have and their relationship with their providers to see what comfort level I have.

 

Wish I didn't have to do that, but as said, it is what it is, now figure out what levels of comfort we have and make the decisions we feel we need to take in whatever form that may be.

 

And life goes on.  One thing for sure - as I start to pay for email, which I am willing to do - I used to view it that I was paying Rogers for that and it was one of the reasons I have stayed so that I didn't have to change it and why I was moving off anyway, but since it falls for me under the budget line of communications, of which I pay rogers, and now an email company, and other areas like Internet services outside of Rogers accessed via the Internet, I have to find the money in that budget line to take on that cost, and Rogers services may be one area that I have to financially cut in order to bear the cost of paying for more secure and private email.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

If we don't have an @rogers.com email address anymore, will that hinder our My Rogers account or relationship with Rogers in any way?

 

I doubt it. They are so desperate not to offer this optional service they will pay you $150 to go away.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I am appalled and very alarmed at this too. This is a copy of the email that I sent.

 

my email address: *@rogers.com

Attention: ombudsman@rci.rogers.com
CC: response@ccts-cprst.ca

 

Hello,

I received an email asking me to agree to a new Yahoo/Oath policy which would have me give up my privacy and allow Yahoo/Oath to scan my emails and photos with a clause that they cannot be sued.
This is not a Canadian way of serving customers and violates Canadian law.
I do not want my information being sold to advertisers and scammers.
No one should have access to my emails and feel they can do as they wish with what they gather.
Why is Rogers associated with Yahoo/Oath which is a company in the U.S.?
This does NOT promote a very good image for Rogers as a company either.
Is there anything customers can do to protect themselves or opt out without being held hostage by these terms?
The hassle of changing my email after all these years would cause some issues but if this policy is allowed, then I and many others will have no choice but to leave Rogers Yahoo/Oath services and possibly cancel our other services with Rogers as well.
I hope Rogers will find another email service that respects its customer’s right to privacy or have their own email service.

Thank you for your time.

 

respectfully,

My Name

 

Spoke to a Rogers tech today about this and he told me he has received other calls by concerned Rogers customers.

Other ISP providers have their standalone own email addresses for customers.

And I'm sure not going to opt in for this  TOS from Yahoo/Oath.

And my personal information is PRIVATE. NOT FOR SALE. And I am a Canadian and don't live in the U.S.!

I am VERY ANGRY about this. Rogers needs to STOP THIS. NOW. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.

I am clicking on I'll do this later instead accepting the  Oath TOS terms until Rogers puts an end to this utter debacle and nightmare.

We Rogers customers don't want this!

Some Rogers agents I spoke with today do not want it either.

And I'm not accepting any lame excuses from Rogers either.

Either they fix it. NOW. or I'll take all of my services elsewhere with another company that doesn't sell and respects my private information and I'm certain other customers will do the same thing.

ROGERS WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

YOU'RE A BIG ENOUGH COMPANY TO HAVE YOUR OWN EMAIL SERVICE.

DUH.

 

 

 

 

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

In answer to the question of will not having a Rogers email address hinder our access via MyRogers.

 

Here are some of the immediate impacts if you just cancel and delete the email account.

 

Rogers will have no way to contact you, to send you emails of transaction confirmation or notify you that your bill is available.

 

That is easily fixed by changing your email contact in the profile section.

 

You could actually keep your user name as the old Rogers address, even though there is no contact with you via that account.  Your email address, username access and password are not exactly the same as that in your email

 

You can create any password for the email and they are not directly connected to MyRogers, other than when you first set up your MyRogers, it will send a verification email to confirm in your identified email address, which by the way from the very beginning did not have to be your rogers email account, we all probably did it as that was the email account we chose at the time.

 

In the case of people like myself, who had the email account for something like 20 years at least now, it was automatically ported over when MyRogers was first set up, and then when it changed.

 

You are now able to associate any email as your username for contact and login to MyRogers and that can be found here on the forums, or you can contact support or @CommunityHelps to guide you through that process.

 

So simple answer, once you change your user name and contact information in MyRogers, your old email address doesn't exist anymore from the perspective of the system.  But you will need to make those changes yourself.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Another interesting article: looking at the relationship to the new EU GDPR ePrivacy Regulations of these changes.

 

Great questions and review, points out that only from Rogers and Privacy commissions are we going to get first the answers and the required changes.

 

Or we just opt out.

 

Bruce

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@BS

 

"And life goes on.  One thing for sure - as I start to pay for email, which I am willing to do - I used to view it that I was paying Rogers for that and it was one of the reasons I have stayed so that I didn't have to change it and why I was moving off anyway, but since it falls for me under the budget line of communications, of which I pay rogers, and now an email company, and other areas like Internet services outside of Rogers accessed via the Internet, I have to find the money in that budget line to take on that cost, and Rogers services may be one area that I have to financially cut in order to bear the cost of paying for more secure and private email."

 

Sadly, I may have to do the same thing. I am already doing research on other companies that provide internet with a free email address as part of that service if I have to cut off ties with Rogers.

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 49

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

"... is accessed using Microsoft Office software for Windows 10 on my laptop and using the Microsoft Mail app for Android on my phone.  "

 

You might want to rethink this.  By linking Outlook to Rogers you have given Yahoo access to information within Outlook.  Not a biggie yet, but re-read the clauses from Oath concerning access to apps and shared data.

 

You may also find that your two apps (Outlook and rogers) can share and access data.  You can confirm by checking your rogers email account data in the Rogers site.   You may find that your Outlook is listed.

 

If you are keeping your rogers for specific purposes I recommend downloading an app like thunderbird to use exclusively with rogers email accounts.  Set up thunderbird for your rogers account and remove them from your outlook/MS programs.   Set thunderbird up with no contacts or calendar data except for those absolutely needed.

 

Remove anything associated with rogers in your outlook and ensure rogers/yahoo no longer has any links to your outlook email.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@BS

 

"

Another interesting article: looking at the relationship to the new EU GDPR ePrivacy Regulations of these changes.

 

Great questions and review, points out that only from Rogers and Privacy commissions are we going to get first the answers and the required changes.

 

Or we just opt out."

 

Thanks very much for posting that information.

Just wondering how many people have contacted Rogers and the CRTC and the office of the ombudsman.