Change to Email Terms of Sevice

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 33

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@Nettangel

"The links to opt out of marketing is not good enough.

Opting out of Oath’s desire to store and use my private data is what I want. This should not have been included in countries that honour privacy laws."

This is also what I want.

Right now I am choosing not to accept the Oath TOS for my rogers.com email accounts and have recommended to my clients who also have rogers.com emails addresses not to do so at the moment.

I want to keep my rogers.com emails and not have to change over to another email provider. I pay for my rogers.com email addresses with having Rogers internet service. Those emails were never free and never ever were.

There is still time before the deadline of  May 25th.

Am waiting to see the final results from the Privacy Commissioner of Canada speaking with Oath and Rogers.

I too am keeping up the fight!

 

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Exactly @bibbinut the more people know about this the better. I also informed everyone I could think of about these changes, regardless if they have Rogers or Yahoo. I asked that they pass it on to others if they wish, as some may not be aware, or perhaps know someone who does have one of these accounts. Many just click accept without reading the new terms.  

Word of mouth is powerful.

 

I don’t blame you for not wanting to switch, especially if you have clients. I can imagine it is not a task anyone would want to have to deal with. 

 

I agree, we pay for a service and should be protected by our provider, they gave us Yahoo and the email addy.  We should never have had to deal with this in the first place.

 

I hope this will soon end for all of our sake. 

Looks like we are in Battle part 2 now!

 

 

 

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 27

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@Nettangel

@bibbinut

 

Since you both seem to be further along in your discussions with Rogers than I, I was wondering if you had discussed the following matter that I have only recently recognized.

 

If you look at the current Yahoo Mail policy for Canada (see Information Collection and Use section), there is no reference to analyzing and storing all communications content, including incoming and outgoing email.

 

https://policies.yahoo.com/ca/en/yahoo/privacy/index.htm?redirect=no

 

 

If, however, you look at the current Yahoo Mail policy for the US (see Information Collection and Use section), there is reference to analyzing and storing all communications content, including incoming and outgoing email. This is the only significant difference between the policies for the two countries. Accordingly, I believe this difference in policy is intentional – otherwise why not include this reference also in the Canadian policy.

 

https://policies.yahoo.com/us/en/yahoo/privacy/index.htm?redirect=no

 

 

I presume there is a reason the Canadian policy does not currently contain the reference to analyzing and storing all communications content, including incoming and outgoing email. Is it against Canadian privacy rules? If a difference in policy between Canada and the US is appropriate now then I don’t believe anything has changed in Canada law that would make such a difference in policy still not appropriate in less than a month.

 

Earlier this month I (as did all other rogers.com email account users) received an email notifying me of the upcoming changes to the new Oath privacy (and other) policies that will replace the Yahoo Mail policies. 

 

The new Oath policy states “Oath analyzes and stores all communications content, including email content from incoming and outgoing mail.” This is very similar wording to the existing Yahoo Mail policy for the US but not consistent with the current Yahoo Mail policy for Canada.  I think this may be an important distinction.

 

I believe that the email we received from Yahoo earlier this month was a standard email sent to all global Yahoo Mail users and was not tailored to Canada.  I suspect US users received the same email. Nowhere in the “Privacy Policy Updates Summary” section of this email is there mention of a move from not analyzing and storing all communications content to now starting analyzing and storing all communications content.  In my opinion, this is a significant change in privacy policy and should be included in this email summarizing changes from the Yahoo Mail to Oath policies.  I believe the reason it may not have been highlighted is because this email was not tailored specifically to Canada.  Accordingly, a Canadian Yahoo Mail user, who did spend all of the time many of us did actually reviewing a myriad of current and future agreements, would not be aware of this significant change in privacy policy. Assuming Rogers email users even read such emails, I believe that a change such as “Oath will now start analyzing and storing all communications content, including incoming and outgoing email” would have caused more users to raise questions regarding the new policy.  (I do note that the previous – now deleted (hopefully forever) sharing of Friends and Contacts personal information policy – was also not included as a change highlighted in this email.  In that case, however, it was for some reason a Canada specific policy.)

 

If I do not hear back from the Office of the President this week, I will be raising the above issue. 

 

Also, I agree with you that subcontracting the email service to a third party (Yahoo/Oath) does not absolve the internet service provider (Rogers) of any responsibilities to their customers. Our contract is with Rogers.  The fact they subcontract is irrelevant to us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@Zaphod64

I was directed to the Oath Policy page.

https://policies.oath.com/us/en/oath/privacy/index.html

How we use your information lists the things that are of concern.

I believe this policy outline is for all who use Oath services, not just the US.

I may be wrong.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 27

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@Nettangel

 

I agree that the Oath polices in the link you provided appear to apply globally - and those include the "Oath analyzes and stores all communications content, including email content from incoming and outgoing mail" policy of concern.

 

Do the links I provided to the current (i.e. the pre 25 May new Oath policies) separate privacy policies for Yahoo Mail Canada and Yahoo Mail US not work? Were you redirected from those links to the new Oath policy. I just checked and the links worked for me and took me to two separate Canada and US Yahoo Mail privacy policies, not the new Oath policy.

 

I wanted to show that in moving to the new Oath policies Canadian and US users are starting from a different point (i.e. US users already have in their terms the analyze and store policy but Canadian users do not.)

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 27

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@Nettangel

 

I think I see what you mean by the links I provided getting redirected to the Oath site.  When I access the links in Google Chrome or Internet Explorer browsers I get redirected to Oath but when I open in Microsoft Edge Browser I get the old Yahoo policies.  That is strange.  I cleared my browser cache so I don't think I am loading a cached copy of the old Yahoo pages.

 

 

 

Here is the Yahoo Canada policy:

 

Information Collection and Use

General

Yahoo collects personal information when you register with Yahoo, when you use Yahoo products or services, when you visit Yahoo pages or the pages of certain Yahoo partners, and when you enter promotions or sweepstakes.

 

Yahoo may combine information about you that we have with information we obtain from business partners or other companies.

 

When you register we ask for information such as your name, gender, birth date, postal code and email address.

 

Once you register with Yahoo and sign in to our services, you are not anonymous to us.

 

Yahoo collects information about your transactions with us and with some of our business partners, including information about your use of financial products and services that we offer.

 

Yahoo automatically receives and records information from your computer and browser, including your IP address, Yahoo cookie information, software and hardware attributes, and the page you request.

 

Yahoo uses information for the following general purposes: to customize the advertising and content you see, fulfill your requests for products and services, improve our services, contact you, conduct research, and provide anonymous reporting for internal and external clients.

 

Here is the Yahoo US policy: You can see the additional policy provision regarding "analyzed and stores"

 

Information Collection & Use

General

Yahoo collects personal information when you register with Yahoo, when you use Yahoo products or services, when you visit Yahoo pages or the pages of certain Yahoo partners, and when you enter promotions or sweepstakes.

 

Yahoo may combine information about you that we have with information we obtain from business partners or other companies.

 

When you register we ask for information such as your name, email address, birth date, gender, ZIP code, occupation, industry, and personal interests. For some financial products and services we might also ask for your address, Social Security number, and information about your assets. When you register with Yahoo and sign in to our services, you are not anonymous to us.

 

Yahoo collects information about your transactions with us and with some of our business partners, including information about your use of financial products and services that we offer.

 

Yahoo analyzes and stores all communications content, including email content from incoming and outgoing email.

 

Yahoo automatically receives and records information from your computer and browser, including your IP address, Yahoo cookie information, software and hardware attributes, and the page you request.

 

Yahoo uses information for the following general purposes: to customize the advertising and content you see, fulfill your requests for products and services, improve our services, contact you, conduct research, and provide anonymous reporting for internal and external clients.

Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 49

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Aside from the Rogers Privacy office I have been contacting MP's office.

 

Before addressing CEO, Ombudsman or Privacy Commissioner directly (MP's office is dealing with Privacy Commissioner) I need to exhaust the possibility of resolution of my concerns with the Privacy Officer.   That adds validity to any complaints filed with the Privacy Commissioner (i.e. have all avenues of resolving the complaint been exhausted before the complaint was filed).

 

I'm not a fan of phone calls from sources within the CEO's office as they do not speak as official representatives with authority.  And unless I tape the conversation what is said is not binding on Rogers.  The CEO is aware (should be aware) aware of the issues being raised and can offer a public statement on the record or send an email to his clients stating Rogers position.  That the CEO hasn't indicates they don't have an official position.

 

The Privacy Officer may be using boiler plate responses because of volume or because they don't want to answer the specific questions being raised.   A boiler plate indicates they are merely delaying responding in hopes the issue goes away, avoiding any statements of commitment to address a client concern or that the office has little authority or resources and is little more than window dressing.  The latter is more likely given their apparent lack of involvement in reviewing or considering the impact on the Privacy of their clients of the new Oath policies.

 

Regarding the contractual relationship, my understanding is that the MP's office has forwarded my correspondence to the Privacy Commissioner's office with their support.  That carries more weight than my own complaint might.

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 271

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@Nettangelwrote:

@Zaphod64

I was directed to the Oath Policy page.

https://policies.oath.com/us/en/oath/privacy/index.html

How we use your information lists the things that are of concern.

I believe this policy outline is for all who use Oath services, not just the US.

I may be wrong.


From that link:

"Oath analyzes and stores all communications content, including email content from incoming and outgoing mail.  This allows us to deliver, personalize and develop relevant features, content, advertising and Services."

 

That means they're "analyzing" emails from those who send you an email, even though they may have had no opportunity accept the terms.  Oath wants to do things that law enforcement would need a search warrant for.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 271

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

"Yahoo collects personal information when you register with Yahoo"

 

I didn't register with Yahoo.  I was using Rogers email and found myself on Yahoo as a result of a business decision by Rogers.  My agreement was with Rogers, not Yahoo and most certainly not with Oath.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 49

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

The "analyzes and stores" is implicit in the Canadian policy as it is required to perform the "general purposes" listed.

 

The point in the US policy that stands out is: "...email content from incoming and outgoing email." 

 

The Oath T&C's is the document of precedence: W"e’re now bringing Oath and Yahoo together under these Terms of Service."  When there is conflict between policies or a point is not addressed in both policies then the document with the higher order precedence is the one that applies. "Oath analyzes and stores all communications content, including email content from incoming and outgoing mail. " 

 

Within the Oath Privacy Policy it states: "This Privacy Policy does not apply to the practices of companies that Oath does not own or control, or to people that Oath does not employ or manage. "  When you consider who Oath will share our information with it is disturbing that Oath does not impose the same obligations.

 

On the email content extracted: this includes header data.   This data is obviously necessary for routing emails but its purpose is not limited to that alone.   Header data includes among some things: names and email of To, From and CC; IP addresses; and subject line.