Change to Email Terms of Sevice

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 271

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I strongly suspect this new "agreement" violates Canadian privacy law.  I don't think Rogers would want to do that.  I wouldn't be surprised if this is a result of Trump killing net neutrality.  Well, Rogers is still subject to Canadian laws, no matter what Verizon/Yahoo wants to do.

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 24

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

While clearing out my emails, I came across old Flicker and Tumblr accounts that have not been used for years. I deleted them after removing content, as they are owned by Oath now.

I will have to check what other sites they own and avoid them like the plague they have become.

 

Okay I checked and according to wikipedia, here is the list of companies owned by Oath.

It says some of....so there are more then?  

Please feel free to add any you come across if you wish.

 

Brands

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 9

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

You think?

Opened up Internet Explorer to my home page - "ca.rogers.yahoo.com" twice this morning and lo and behold NO OATH page requesting AGREEMENT to their policies. Got right into my mail.

Has Rogers seen the light and removed this offensive post in light of complaints and overload to their Support services?

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I wouldn't bet too heavily on Rogers "seeing the light."

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I did a little more research on this whole issue - the question I looked into, was, what is this magical date of May 25th, all about.  It came to me when I got my third statement of changed policy using terms like more transparent in the description and that magic date again.

 

Well, May 25th, is the date for full implementation by all companies to the new EU policies, which are extremely strict in their application to companies and selective protection of the user rights. I am not going to try to explain the EU policies, I leave it to others, but it gives you a lot of rights in their countries to place considerable restrictions on the Internet companies and their collection of data and is restrictive of its use of transfer of data to third party companies.

 

Also when I received an updated terms related to a fitness tracking app that I don't actually use anymore, it speaks of the fact that biometric data on heart rate, how fast you run, walk, exercise, intensity, weight, food intake, etc, are considered to be health data and are protected under HIPPA in the US, which means in Canada, we could consider under a similiar interpretation that the data would be health data and metrics, and that under that consideration, that type of data is not a commercial data under rules like PiPida only, but also health privacy acts as well with even higher standards of protection and consent to release.

 

The interesting thing I found when I reviewed that 17 page document they speak of is that they have different policies for many countries due to different legal principles and rules and interpretations of privacy and who owns the data - the EU considers personal data to be an extension of the person and therefore, full rights to protection of privacy, as you could expect of privacy of your actions in your home apply to privacy of data too.

 

Back to the interesting thing, is that although we have statements from authorities in Canada's privacy commission and acts that speak against some of the items in the Oath policy, in particular the use of the information from our contacts with statement agreement that we have consent by our contacts (So guess the only way to restrict their access to our contacts and correspondence between them would be to not correspond because there is no tool to selectively receive that consent, or to remove it, which clearly under Canadian law, we can remove consent.

 

The agreement that we are asked to agree to is triggered by accessing our Rogers mail, hosted on Yahoo servers, but the front end access is a Rogers Portal, so I suggest that Rogers is fully responsible to ensure that the services they provide to us (free or otherwise, optional or not), it is facilitated by Rogers and advertised as "

Additional Features:

  • Rogers Online Protection Basic security suite3
  • 24/7 support
  • Rogers Easy Connect software to set up your modem and home Wi-Fi
  • 9 email accounts"

Rogers facilitated the access, yes we can choose not to, but if we do choose to use it, it was facilitated by them to provide access via their portal (named under the Rogers domain) - I can't verify that on Firefox, the Oath agreement won't let me choose to do later, but it worked on Edge.

 

There I reviewed the Rogers Policy, which does not explicitly comment on contact information, so in absence of any comment, does that mean they permit it, or don't permit it.

 

Plus it becomes unclear to me as I am confronted by two differing policies, one by Rogers and one by Oath, that are not consistent, although the Aoth policy says that all applicable laws in Canada are relevant, but leaves it up to us to know our laws).

 

So I am left counting on our privacy commissions to tell me what the laws are - for example that use of my contacts information for marketing is suggested to not be legal, along with the absence of right to sue in court, or class action is not legal in Canada either - and Rogers has not chosen to explicitly tell any of us those two issues, so what is their position on that portion of what is suggested as our rights, and since the agreement says that Canadian law applies, yet goes further and says they can use our contacts if they consent (and again, I say, there is no feasable way to manage that requirement, and I also suggest they know that)

 

So the fact that they left that clause in there along with statement to Canadian law, is it true that Canadian law protects our contacts privacy or not.  They certainly made changes along with it appears all other companies to the EU policies, and that is why we are all getting these right now.

 

And finally, I consider, in my opinion, that Rogers is responsible as a company whether they define the email as free or not, optional or not, they have chosen to facilitate and actually even provide the tools to activate and access the yahoo mail through https://rogersmembercentre.com ( the members centre) which also includes a privacy link to their own policies; and therefore, I view it that they have a responsibility to ensure that the facilitated service is fully compliant with Canadian law, and it appears that on page 17 in the section specific to Canada and its laws and the reference to consent by our contacts, that the terms we agree to explicitly stated by Oath may not be compliant to our laws and principles, and Rogers needs to be pushing them hard (I expect we can take the CEO's statements as strong statements that they do and will do that), but it also appears that our Privacy commission and international trade staff need to be in contact with Oath and advising them that they are not in compliance and that the section for Canadians needs to be more explicitly highlighted to Canadian users and corrected.

 

It is good that the EU forced companies into having clear and transparent descriptions of the principles, plus requirements that they state the specifics for each country (they are not universally the same across all EU countries, the EU acts as the overseer of them all), and so therefore, they provide information to each country, and it appears that either our Canadian laws are not clear in their interpretation by this company and its lawyers, or they may have just chosen to not bother.

 

For now, it is an easy answer - I come here and I also contact Rogers directly to advocate for my rights, and those of others in general.  I await a suitable answer, but it has yet to come from the media responses, although they are at least speaking, but they have yet to address those particular applications to Canadian protections found in the general policy, other than to tell us that we can opt out.  If it is not in compliance, my suggestion to Rogers, is to move to discontinue using Yahoo until they do become compliant with Canadian law (that would be a proative move on their part), or Canadian federal agencies force it on Oath.

 

The saga continues.

 

Bruce

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 49

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

A concern I have related to conflicting statements is associated with where data is stored.

 

If our emails and accounts (contact lists, calendars, content) are stored on US servers, and the activity of transmission occurs primarily in the US does it matter what Canadian law sates vis a vis Oath using our contact list data as they wish?

 

By example FB moving certain activities and copyrights from Ireland back to the US to avoid the application of EU privacy and data rules to North American users indicates an acknowledgement to a degree of supremacy of geographic location in determining which laws are applicable.

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

"

A concern I have related to conflicting statements is associated with where data is stored.

 

If our emails and accounts (contact lists, calendars, content) are stored on US servers, and the activity of transmission occurs primarily in the US does it matter what Canadian law sates vis a vis Oath using our contact list data as they wish?"

 

And these, like many other questions, are the legitimate questions being made by concerned customers of Yahoo services, facilitated by Rogers (i.e., these are the "optional services", that Rogers makes available to us and advertises that we receive as benefits of our services), and we are looking to Rogers for these clarifications so we can make an informed decision on do we opt out or not - If Rogers is going to do business with Yahoo, which they must have an agreement with them in order to provide the access via their portal and have their domain mx address directing and hosted on Yahoo servers, I view it that Rogers has the responsibility to be prepared to answer these questions.

 

If they are going to leave us in the dark, which I hope they start to answer these questions and soon and I hope without being forced by government intervention through the commissions, then what choice do we have but to opt out if we want to be responsible citizens towards our contact persons.

 

Keep the questions coming - these posts are clearly being read by Rogers, the media and probably by the commission ultimately too.

 

Bruce

I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,153

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I found the section of the terms where Rogers will be taking the position that Yahoo mail is our responsibility to accept or not.

 

This is located on the Rogers powered by Yahoo home page where you access your web mail from.

 

When you are in the mail section, from the settings gear, choose the privacy option and you will see the introductory and then link to each company policy.

 

 

"

Applicable Privacy Policy and Service Terms: Rogers and Yahoo each maintain separate privacy policies that describe in more detail how they handle your personal information. Please take a moment to read these privacy policies.

One of the benefits you received when you subscribed to the Internet Service is your ability to use your Rogers ID and password to access and subscribe to a broad variety of Yahoo services ("Yahoo Services") across Yahoo's worldwide network. To the extent you choose to access or subscribe to any Yahoo Services outside of the Internet Service using your Rogers ID, you agree that your use of the Yahoo Services you select will be subject exclusively to the applicable Yahoo Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, which you will find in links available at the bottom of the relevant service page.

Personal information collected for the Internet Service may be stored and processed in Canada, the United States or other countries and may be subject to the legal jurisdiction of these countries.

If you have any questions or concerns about your privacy relating to the Internet Service, you may call a Rogers Customer Service Representative or send an e-mail to privacy@rci.rogers.com.

™ Rogers Communications Inc. used with permission.

 

Note, the lack of clarity in terms of storage and processing may be in Canada, the United states or other countries, and may be subject to the legal jurisdiction of these countries.

 

No where are we provided information on where it is being processed, and so how is the average customer to know the legal jurisdiction and their related laws.

 

From the media interviews it appears that under Canadian Law, the privacy policy that we have to agree with by May 25, 2018, and if we use the services after that, or set up a new email prior, we accept the policy by clicking, and if we don't we may not have access to the services.  If you use a site without an account, such as use the Yahoo home page, rogers by Yahoo home page, you are still being tracked, information about your IP, locations, etc are still being collected as of May 25, 2018.  For now, we are under the old policy from last year. 

 

But this is Rogers way to opt out of this whole discussion and dump it on us if they so choose.

 

We don't know where the information is being stored or processed,

 

I did a quick whois check on the rogers member centre, and each login screen, the main rogers by yahoo, and the email site, and the addresses are registered in either England, or Ireland. So just where is our information processed and stored?? So who's laws apply??

 

And read this one closely from above - so what exactly does this mean?

 

It is not a service, but a benefit of the Internet Service to use your Rogers ID and password to access and subscribe to a broad variety of Yahoo Services.

 

It says that we are bound by the " will be subject exclusively to the applicable Yahoo Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, "  So based upon this statement, I read it as Rogers saying that any Rogers privacy policies no longer apply, that it is exclusively Yahoo - they are speaking of the terms we find at the bottom of the Yahoo service page.  they don't mention the terms as presented in the message popup or the email message we get, just the terms at the bottom of the page.

 

Confused yet??  Guess we will probably get clarification from the privacy commissioner in time, but for now, I know what I recommend - opt out completely, as clearly Rogers privacy policy does not apply in the terms described above. And they describe it as a benefit that we can access yahoo services with our Rogers authorizations, so all they are doing is allowing us to give Yahoo the key to the door and once the door is open, we at the whim of Oath. Unless our own government is going to step in.

 

 

 

One of the benefits you received when you subscribed to the Internet Service is your ability to use your Rogers ID and password to access and subscribe to a broad variety of Yahoo services ("Yahoo Services") across Yahoo's worldwide network. To the extent you choose to access or subscribe to any Yahoo Services outside of the Internet Service using your Rogers ID, you agree that your use of the Yahoo Services you select will be subject exclusively to the applicable Yahoo Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, which you will find in links available at the bottom of the relevant service page.

 

 

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I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 4

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Very simple solution: I have downloaded all my contacts, and then deleted them from my Rogers account. I now have NO contacts for Oath to steal from. I've also emailed all my contacts who use Rogers email and asked them to do the same, or at least to delete me from their contact list.

There's no more appropriate name for the new service than Oath. I can think of a good few oaths flying around at the moment over this issue.

Maybe it's time for "bye bye Rogers". Of course, that would include TV and phone services as well.