Change to Email Terms of Sevice

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 17

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I  looked for myself at the clause in the actual TOS, Section 14, subsection 5(Canada) parag (f) that was noted in a previous post by "ATP13"  Thank you, ATP13!!  I note that in accepting these TOS, according to that subsection, I am authorizing Yahoo, Oath, AOL, Verizon and their partners and other third parties to mine my contact lists for the email addresses AND PHONE NUMBERS of my contacts and then phone or send messages to any of these contacts "on my behalf" without my knowledge. If I accept the TOS, I am also explicitly representing that I have obtained the permission of all these contacts to be so contacted... It seems to me that this behavior that I am thus being forced to agree to is EXACTLY the behaviour of hackers that hack a Rogers subscriber's email account, steal his or her contact list, and then send out emails to all those contacts pretending to be the subscriber...

I am fortunate that certain of my doctors, surgeons, investment and business advisors, business professionals and technical specialists have given me their confidential personal emails and unpublished direct phone numbers in order that I might communicate directly and efficiently with them.  There is NO WAY any of these contacts would give me permission to share their private contact information with Oath/Yahoo/Verizon etc, and it would take just one such unauthorized communication "on my behalf" from one of those parties to severely damage my relationship of trust, and close this private communication channel,  with my professional contacts.  Hence I cannot morally nor legally signify my acceptance of these TOS.... 

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 12

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

@thePhipp - exactly what I was concerned about. You really expanded on my point so well. 

 


@thePhippwrote:

I  looked for myself at the clause in the actual TOS, Section 14, subsection 5(Canada) parag (f) that was noted in a previous post by "ATP13"  Thank you, ATP13!!  I note that in accepting these TOS, according to that subsection, I am authorizing Yahoo, Oath, AOL, Verizon and their partners and other third parties to mine my contact lists for the email addresses AND PHONE NUMBERS of my contacts and then phone or send messages to any of these contacts "on my behalf" without my knowledge. If I accept the TOS, I am also explicitly representing that I have obtained the permission of all these contacts to be so contacted... 


This is worse than the Facebook / Cambridge Analytica harvesting of 3rd party info. 

Basically anyone we send or receive Emails from will have their personal info harvested. 

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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I would not count on that.    I have been trying to get an answer from Rogers on this.  They've been silent.  No response at all.  Further, if you look at their CURRENT privacy agreement you will see this:

 

" If you have an existing Yahoo or AOL account, you will need to agree to this Privacy Policy.  If you have not yet agreed to this Privacy Policy, the legacy Yahoo Privacy Policy or legacy Oath Privacy Policy (for AOL)still apply to your account.  For Oath products or services that are accessed without signing into an account, this Privacy Policy applies to those products and services starting [May 25, 2018].  If you are creating a new account, the terms below apply starting today.  "

 

So, if you don't agree, then apparently the old policy is in effect.   But, don't stop reading!  The following clause, re accessing the services without logging in to yahoo (for example, accessing mail via a pop client) tells me that the new data privacy terms will start applying SILENTLY on May 25.   Given that, I would not at all be surprized if they just silently use the new policy for all users, even those that did not agree, at some point - probably May 25 as well.

 

(You can access this from your mail by clicking the 'gear' symbol on the top right, then click 'Privacy policy for yahoo/oath')

 

Given this, and given Rogers' total SILENCE on this matter,... the only prudent thing I can see myself doing is to start making plans to move all my sensitive accounts to use other emails.   

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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

See my recent post on this.  After May 25, you will be silently bound by the new data privacy terms, even if access your mail without signing onto Yahoo.

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 17

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I set out to file a complaint (about Rogers) to the CRTC as per a link posted by someone else earlier, and found this guidance that we should instead complain to the Commission for Complaints for Telecom-television Services (CCTS). Best, I think, to frame our complaints as a pending [notice of intent to] unilateral denial of contracted service to paying customers (since, if we cannot morally or legally accept the TOS we will be denied promised services after May 25), and/or as a violation of obligations to protect the data privacy and security of its paying customers (which is tangible and unavoidable for anyone who accepts the TOS).   Here is the CCTS contact info, there are several ways you can complain:

 

""The CRTC is also not directly involved in ...[internet service provider]...  marketing practices, quality of service issues, and customer relations. ...  You may also contact the Commission for Complaints for Telecom-television Services (CCTS). The CCTS is an independent agency mandated to help resolve eligible consumer and small business complaints relating to certain retail telecommunications services.

You can submit your complaint directly to the CCTS by clicking on the following link: https://ccts-cprst.ca/complaints/complaint-form

You can also contact the CCTS using the following methods:

  • Online: http://www.ccts-cprst.ca
  • By email: response@ccts-cprst.ca
  • By telephone: Call, toll free, 1-888-221-1687
  • By fax: 1-877-782-2924
  • By mail: CCTS, P.O. Box 56067 - Minto Place RO, Ottawa, Ontario K1R 7Z1
  • by toll-free TTY: 1-877-782-2384



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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 15

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I suspect, sadly, after reading Roger's Privacy policy, that they may very well be within their rights.

They do not hide the fact that agents outside Canada have the right to access personal information for the purposes of targeted advertising and denying theses rights may lead to service termination. The only thing I struggle to find is their right to harrass our contacts by sending unsolicited marketing info to them under our name.

 

https://www.rogers.com/cms/rogers/pdf/Rogers_Privacy_Policy_EN.pdf

 

I think the way around it is simply not give Rogers and Oath anything to "analyze" or contacts to harrass bu dropping any use of Rogers email accounts. Sad it comes down to that. Enough people do it and it won't be as lucrative a venture as what OATH and Rogers hope it will be to pad their pockets with marketing money. (then they will find another way to gouge us ... its the Roger's way!)

 

ProtonMail looks promising, but I'm unsure as to whether the encrypted messaging to external recipients is included in the Free account.

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I'm Here A Lot
Posts: 5

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

Very eloquently put.   I could not agree more.

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I'm a Senior Advisor
Posts: 2,154

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I spent today deleting my contacts from my two remaining rogers/yahoo email accounts, deleting and archiving any relevant emails to my new email service, and have now deleted the email accounts completely.

 

As I worked my way through all this, I had messages "screaming" at me all along the way - Log into portal - a message, that they make you scroll through, and at the end, you can accept, or choose to do later - obviously I clicked do later.

 

Went to my two email accounts individually and got to see the same messages again, I did nothing with the authorization, left the message there where is will disappear into oblivion somewhere on a server after I deleted the accounts.

 

I then took the step of advising all my contacts that had yahoo or rogers names in their email, and advised them that I would no longer be communicating with them via email as long as they are with yahoo or Rogers email and I also requested that they remove my contact information from their email accounts online.

 

It was a drastic measure to take, but I realized that not only did I have to strip my own presence from Rogers/Yahoo email and contacts, don't forget your yahoo groups you may belong to, and your calendars too.

 

I also had to contact those I correspond with and educate them on this issue and emphasize that for my own security of information, I wanted to be removed from their contact lists given the reality of that section in the terms of accessing contacts in our accounts.  Some were responsive, some were not, but most thanked me and are moving their accounts from Yahoo and Yahoo related companies and switching their email.

 

With silence from Rogers on this issue, and their comments to people to either sign on, or cancel their email account, I fully cancelled the email accounts.  So the Rogers service of access to 9 emails - doesn't exist for me as long as they stay with the Verizon based company of Yahoo and Oath.

 

The tech news are spreading this topic quickly with four new articles posted beyond the CNET article.

 

Unfortunately, as I learned from some of my contacts, they had, as we all probably have in the past, just clicked the button and accepted without fully reading the full message.

 

I have yet to read the full terms, and probably won't - I thank everyone here for highlighting the critical areas found in the full terms, but I also do acknowledge that Oath did make it fairly transparent exactly what they were doing, which made my decisions very easily - right from the get go, I could not accept those terms.

 

Now I look to Rogers to take leadership for itself, and for its customers, and clarify Rogers position on all this, and hopefully to look to an alternative provider, or return to running email themselves.  It is not like the original @home services that included storage space, groups, web page space and tools, email, and a web site.

 

Or just get out the email business completely, although that will provide a competitive edge to their competitors who are with companies that have recently taken the responsible decisions to declare they are not going to do as we have just been asked by Rogers and Yahoo to allow an American company to do.

 

I include Rogers in that last statement, because they cannot divest themselves from responsibility for our security and privacy of information on our email and Canadian privacy laws and practices by handing it all over to an American Company.

 

I had already removed my original email from Rogers as my sign in to MyRogers and to the forum, as I have been gradually closing the rogers email account down since the Yahoo hack was announced.  This recent news just led me to take the last steps.

 

I know it is a pain in the neck to have to switch everything over and takes time, but my decision has been for a long time, that I wanted nothing to do with Rogers email provided services as long as they were Yahoo based.

 

Keep pushing this isssue to the media, on the board here, and maybe a new thread can be started, - how to completely shut down my rogers yahoo email accounts.

 

This could include the steps on how to cancel the accounts, how to clean out what you need to keep and transfer to another service, how to change the login for MyRogers, and change up email contacts and other related information here on the forum settings.

 

The only one I have never found out how to change is my current login for the forum - I have my new email set for login via MyRogers with my attached account, but don't access the forum via that log in.

 

My original login that I set up for the forum and myRogers, I still use, with no attached account - you can't get to the profile without an attached account for Rogers, so I have no idea what information may be in there under the profile section.

 

So I use the old email address as my login via MyRogers to the forum, but now that address is not associated with any existing email account, and my email preferences are set in the forum settings to my newer service provider for email services.

 

In absence of any direction or clarification from Rogers, I see the only solution is to just shut our email accounts down and move on.

 

Bruce

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 17

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice


@ADayInCourtwrote:

I suspect, sadly, after reading Roger's Privacy policy, that they may very well be within their rights.

They do not hide the fact that agents outside Canada have the right to access personal information for the purposes of targeted advertising and denying theses rights may lead to service termination. The only thing I struggle to find is their right to harrass our contacts by sending unsolicited marketing info to them under our name.

 

https://www.rogers.com/cms/rogers/pdf/Rogers_Privacy_Policy_EN.pdf

 

 


Thanks, "ADayInCourt", I have read Rogers existing policy at the link you provided, and to me, the difference between it and the new Oath TOS is night and day. I wonder what I am missing and if you could perhaps educate me on the similarities you see...

 

The existing Rogers Privacy Policy at that link seems quite reasonable and agreeable to me. It seems very explicit in precisely enumerating ONLY the specific partner and information-sharing scenarios and purposes that Rogers will allow my information to be used for,  and all of them seem reasonable to me. I do not see any blanket vague open-ended provision to collect, mine and share my information internally and with third parties, I do not see any provisions to look at, retrieve, use, and share the CONTENTS of my private email ATTACHMENTS (documents, photos, etc), and, as you noted, I do not see any provision to raid my CONTACTS and communicate with them under pretense of "on my behalf" or otherwise. These blatant and arrogant privacy violations, which ARE included in the new OATH/Yahoo TOS, cross the line for me.  I just don't see those scary bits in the current Rogers policy. Am I missing something?

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I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 17

Re: Change to Email Terms of Sevice

I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing. The TOS of Rogers and Oath are night and day. As one poster already said, Oath makes Cambridge Analytica look like chump change. Today I opened a new email account with Proton Mail, which I mentioned in an earlier post. For others reading this comment, it's fully secure, encrypted and no ads. Based in Switzerland and protected by Swiss privacy laws, which means not even Proton can read them. Started moving archived emails, pics and contacts over to the new email address, but will take a while, but should have it done before May 25th. Totally legit, started by a couple of civil liberties type scientists from MIT and CERN. Check it out at protonmail.com spread the word.

Here's a link to a 12 minute TED Talk from one of the founders of ProtonMail. It's about how email providers make their money, personal privacy and how Proton Mail email encryption works in a way anyone can understand. It's from 2014 and I wish I'd seen it back then. Very interesting and enlightening.

http://www.ted.com/talks/andy_yen_think_your_email_s_private_think_again