CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Need Help?

That's what we're here for! The goal of the Rogers Community is to help you find answers on everything Rogers. Can't find what you're looking for? Just ask!
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply
Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

As another side thought ...

If tech support says that they can't provide a 902b for any reason;
Would they be able to rewire the outside connection, aswell as install the MVRA502b that I currently own and is sitting unused? Then I could hook a GHS-3PRO-M splitter up to one of the amplified out ports for the remaining coax connections? This would be my next best outcome as I currently own the MVRA502b and the GHS-3PRO-M splitter.

The 502b > 3 way splitter scenario I just mentioned is essentially my current TV's cable setup. Just right now my TV cable setup is using the 501b > 3 way splitter in the VoIP port, while separated from the internet connection.

Since we really only need the amp for the one PVR box, I believe it could work as long as the PVR connection is directly in one of the amplified outputs and not the splitter. Aswell as the modem being in the VoIP port?

 

Also if I figure out which cables lead to which rooms that are not getting used, I could hook those to the splitter for minimum loss?

Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,947

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Hard to say what tech support will say.  I would think that they would at least agree to cleaning up the external enclosure.  The techs aren't allowed to enter homes these days due to Covid 19 restrictions.  That is why I was indicating that you would have to install the 902B amp.  So, no matter what amp is finally installed, for now, you will have to do the install. 

 

Personal opinion, I'd look at your MVRA502b amp with its singular VOIP port plus 4 amplified ports and decide what to connect to that amp.  You indicated that not all cables are used at the present time, so, I'd simply leave those disconnected if their not required.  It all depends on what you need connected.  My consideration is for the least amount of signal loss thru the cable system.  If I had to I'd bite the bullet and buy a larger amp.  

 

Here's another MoCA amp that would also fit the situation:

 

https://www.ppc-online.com/5-and-9-port-active-return-moca-enabled-coax-amplifier-splitter

 

Don't know how they compare in price to the Antronix amp.  



Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Okay, awesome. I'm just happy to know that at worst, I can install the 502b and splitter I have now. As long as the outside cable work is handled by a tech. Just feel that is outside of my realm.

 

Hoping they can provide the 902b! 🙂

Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Update!

 

Called TV tech support, they are sending a tech tomorrow. Hopefully providing an amp.
I asked for the rep to include the MVRA902b in the work order!

Hopefully they show up with it 🙂 

Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Update 2...

Rogers tech showed up. He Refused to remove the outside splitter and connect only one coax to the house. Wouldn’t let me speak, kept talking over me. He kept telling me that You and I were wrong, aswell as the tech being very uninformed about the capabilities of MoCA. Not even being aware about MoCA 2.0..

Also he showed up with the same MVRA501b I currently have installed..

Will have to try another tech I guess..

Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,947

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Here's the solution to the external enclosure:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Hex+Can+Wrench&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

 

Its pretty simple, remove the splitter, disconnect the two internal (to the home) cables from the splitter and connect one of them (your choice) to the ground block, done.  

 

Install the 902B amp, replacing the current 501B amp, done.

 

It the tech was unnecessarily rude, or obnoxious, call tech support and log a complaint regarding the techs behaviour.  Inquire if the tech logged the visit as "all work completed", advise tech support that is absolutely not the case and that the contracting company should not be paid for the visit if it was logged as completed.  Simply put, to service all of your cable ports off of one MoCA 2.0 splitter, you need the larger 902B amp.  See what tech support says in response.  I'll be interested in the response 🙂



Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Thanks for the insight @Datalink.

 

I was already in the process of talking with Rogers for another tech to arrive when you posted.

Although the rep did say that he is escalating the case of today's tech. Including our chat log with it.

I pleaded with the rep to include that I specifically need a MoCA 2.0 capable amp for this to work.

 

We will see how the next tech visit tomorrow goes..
If it doesn't go well, I guess ill just have to do it myself..

 

Also just as a pondering thought ...

                                                                                              - VoIP Port -> 1 to 3 Splitter -> 3 coax cables

                                                   (inside)(MoCa1.0)        - Output 1 -> PVR

             (outside)       - TV cable - MVRA501b amp -> - Output 2 -> stb

Main Line -> Splitter |                                                       -Output 3 -> stb

                                   - Internet cable -> Modem           - Output 4 -> coax cable

*Coax cables stated output to unknown rooms. Have to figure out which go where*

 

That chart is my current setup, as you can probably tell.

Thinking about this from a signal perspective.

This is hurting my connections (especially to PVR and other TV's) correct?

 

On the other hand, would having the PVR on a +8 output amplifier, with only 12.5% power to each output, lead to issues with the PVR?

 

Why wouldn't a tech want us to have the configuration you're suggesting? It seems far more ideal and with far less potential for signal loss or noise.

Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Can't edit my lost post for some reason..

But i've figured out I need a Cable locking terminator tool. Seems to work for Rogers customers in the reviews and in videos online.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00EDMWZZ4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A15QLX3KDITQKH&psc=1

 

Will try this if it comes down to it.

Highlighted
Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 6,947

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

@TwistMan can't speak to the terminator tool at this point.  I'll check ours tomorrow to see what the lock looks like.  I do know that the hex tool will open both Rogers and Bell enclosures. 

 

When you're speaking with tech support, you need to stress that you specifically need the MVRA902b MoCA 2.0 amplifier to service all of the cabling in your home.  

 

That 902B and present 501B amps are unity gain amps, which means that what goes in is what comes out.  So, every output port voltage (signal) level, should be the nearly same as the input port.  The exception is the VOIP port which is not amplified and as a result has a -4.5 or - 5.5 db drop. There's no getting away from the signal drop for the VOIP port. The spec sheet for the 501B shows a 0 dB gain for ports 1 to 4.  The spec sheet for the 902B shows a 0 +/- 1.5 dB gain for ports 1 to 8.  Thats for the forward path (downstream path).  The return path (upstream) numbers are the same as their downstream counterparts.  The VOIP port numbers are rather surprising, with a 4.5 dB insertion loss for the 501B and 5.5 dB insertion loss for the 902B.  So, the tech may have had a valid concern about the loss thru the splitter, but, the minute that you were to install the modem on the VOIP port, with the splitter still in place, your loss becomes -8 dB for the 501B and -9 dB for the 902B.  You're going to take a 1 or 2 dB additional loss depending on which amp is in place, without the splitter of course.  The upside of this is the overall signal gain with the larger amp for all of the amplified ports, as detailed below.   

 

My initial worry was the possibility of dropping the signal level with the splitter and then amplifying it with the amp.  In your case, because you have the 501B amp installed, there is no amplifier gain, its just a matter of dropping the signal level all the way to the end device.  Antronix does make amps which will provide as much as 15 dB gain, input to output.  In that specific case, I would definitely be concerned about amplifying the signal plus the noise out the end devices.  That's not the case here, but your concern is with the signal drop thru the external splitter, drop thru the 501B amp VOIP port and drop thru the three port splitter, all the way to the end devices. 

 

In terms of what you currently have:

 

1.  the external splitter will impose a -3.5 dB drop on each port

2.  The VOIP port on the amp imposes another -4.5 db signal drop

3.  the amp ports (1 to 4) do not impose any further drop, what goes in is what comes out, in this case -3.5 dB due to the external splitter.

4.  The three port splitter will typically impose a single port -3.5 drop and two port -7 db drop. There are splitters which will impose -5 db drops at each port but the -3.5/-7 split is typical.  The drops are indicated on the ports. 

 

So, if you look at your current situation, I've marked the cumulative effect of the losses, left to right:

 

 

                                                                                        (inside)                    - VoIP ->  (-8 dB)  Splitter (-11.5 or -15.5 dB)

                                                                                       (MoCa1.0)               - Output 1 -> PVR  (-3.5 dB)

             (outside)       - TV cable  (-3.5 dB)           - MVRA501b amp -> - Output 2 -> stb    (-3.5 dB)

Main Line -> Splitter |                                                                                   -Output 3 -> stb    (-3.5 dB)

                                   - Internet cable (-3.5 dB) > Modem                      - Output 4 -> coax cable  (-3.5 dB)

 

 

Here's what will happen with with the 902B amp:

 

Main Line -> 902B amp - VOIP PORT (-5.5 dB) -> Modem

                                           - Port 1 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 2 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 3 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 4 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 5 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 6 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 7 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

                                           - Port 8 (0 +/- 1.5 dB) - > device

 

End result, all of the signal levels and signal to noise ratios for all of the devices connected to the amplified ports will improve, in a couple of cases rather drastically, going from a -15.5 dB drop to 0 dB drop. 

 

Checking your posted signal levels, with the splitter now in place, your average downstream DOCSIS 3.0 signal level is -2.9 dBmv.  That will go to -4.9 dBmV which is still ok.  I'd like to see that higher, but, possibly if the tech replaces the cable connectors that will make a small positive difference.  The upstream levels will go from an average of 38.5 dBmV to 40.5 dBmV.  Typically this modem runs at 30 to 32 dBmV with a max output of 51 dBmV for three or four channels, although Rogers uses 52 dBmV for the modem failure point.  That's not the modem failing, but the modem reaching a maximum of 52 dBmV for one or more output channels which is caused by degraded external cabling and connectors.  You're a long way from that. 

 

Here's your current signal levels, which I'd like to see cleaned up.  This is dBmV versus cable signal frequency in Mhz.  Ideally this should be a flat line at 0 dBmV, at the top of the chart if there were no signal losses due to the splitter.  Where the signal levels are at the moment isn't bad, but, they could stand some cleaning up.  The fact that your average is running at -2.9 dBmV instead of -3.5 dBmV or lower would indicate that original signal level is running at 0.6 dBmV if my math is correct.  So you're definitely at or near a normal signal level range, just a matter of keeping the downstream signal losses to a minimum.  I'm hoping that a little TLC from the tech might result in a small gain in terms of the inbound signal level.  I'd be satisfied with the results if that were to happen.  As it looks now, if you were to install the 902B amp, with no splitter in place, the modem signal level should sit at -4.9 dBmV.  If the tech can improve that slightly, so much the better. 

 

One of the mods will have to approve the image before its publicly available.

 

Your downstream DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM channel, which the modem uses for its downstream data starts at 275.6 Mhz and runs up to 467.6 Mha.  If the graph is any indication of real world conditions, that frequency band isn't in too bad of shape.  Its a little lower than I'd like to see, mainly due to the splitter, but hopefully its flat, from the bottom of the OFDM channel to the top of the channel.  The OFDM signal data isn't presented to the user, but tech support has access to that data. 

 

Signal level (dBmV) versus frequency (Mhz)Signal level (dBmV) versus frequency (Mhz)



Highlighted
I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 14

Re: CODA-4582 MoCA 2.0 setup

Once again, @Datalink 

Fantastic explanation! Truly much appreciated.

 

I'm learning a lot by researching and simply talking to you.

Also I appreciate the initiative of your research on the amp's i'm talking about. I've tried reading the spec sheets but they aren't exactly completely clear to a newbie like me lol.

 

I'll post a pic of the lock on my demarc lock. Here's the video I saw, my box doesn't look exactly the same. But the locking bolt looks very similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UwNFQmldKU

 

The tech yesterday cleaned up at least one of the connections. Unsure which ones, but I believe my signals did improve by about 1db or so.

 

Edit: Here is a photo of my demarc lock.Demarc box termination lock(?)Demarc box termination lock(?)