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Xi6A Upscaling

Grwebster
I plan to stick around

I just bought a nice 4K TV, and am trying to set it up in the best way.  It seems that to get 4K Rogers content that the box has to be set to 4K.  That seems to make the box upscale everything, and I strongly suspect my TV’s upscaling is better.  I remember going through something like this in the old HD days.  I would like to give the box 4K ability, but have it pass through whatever it gets.  Can I make that happen?

 

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32 REPLIES 32

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

The "passthough" option basically doesn't exist on most provider boxes these days. This is because the menus, etc are now HD.  You basically need to choose one output resolution and 4K is probably the best option.  It's rare these days that one (relatively new) device is significantly better at conversion than others, unlike 10-15 years ago.

 

You could try 1080i since most channels broadcast as that, but you'd still have conversion for 720P channels and you probably wouldn't be able to tune 4K channels, although there's very little 4K content available...  Here's an FAQ on the topic.

 

https://www.digitalhome.ca/threads/faq-hdtv-formats.76129/#post-654997

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Grwebster
I plan to stick around

Thanks.  I’ll check the faq, but thinking to keep it at 1080p or 720p, and use the smart apps on the TV to access 4K. It’s a real shame because I got used to using the Netflix and Prime apps on the Rogers box.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

1. There are no 1080P channels, so not sure why you'd want to introduce deinterlacing in the box and then upconversion in the TV.

 

2. If you use 720P that would be terrible for 1080i channels and 4K incoming signals.

 

3. Try various options and see if you can actually see a difference.  If you don't see a dramatic difference, I suggest 4K so that you can continue using the box apps.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Grwebster
I plan to stick around

Thanks.  Is the basic signal 720p then?  I guess that would make sense given your faq  notes.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

I'm still on Digital Cable, but AFAIK, per the FAQ, most channels broadcast 1080i, with some channels 720P and a select few 4K.  I believe that on IgniteTV those signals are passed directly to the box by Rogers and you then need to decide what output you wish to set the box to.  Again, I suggest 4K unless you see a degradation of the 1080i/720P channels for example...

 

I don't recall anyone ever confirming what the incoming signals to the IgniteTV box are for the various channels.  That's easily confirmed in the diagnostics of the digital (Nextboxes), but I'm unsure about IgniteTV.  Anyone have any knowledge on this topic?  @-G- ?

 

I thought that only Bell and those who receive signals through Bell are downconverted to 720P for normal TV viewing.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
I am also having issue through my projector. It is a HD projector but the box is only showing 720P as best available resolution? My roku stick works at 1080i. Everything goes through my Denon reciever which has 4K ability. Even when I plug projector directly into box it still only shows 720P . Thoughts ??

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

What's the make/model of the FP?

 

Sometimes handshakes between various devices don't go as planned. Can you set the output of the box to 1080i when directly connected to the FP?  Have you updated the firmware on the FP?

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
Vankyo v600. Chinese but native 1080p. When directly into box screen only shows best resolution of 720, it doesn't give me any other option.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

hmm, website says, part way down comparing 720PX to 1080PX:

 

High Resolution:  The true native 1200*1080 pixels resolution projector delivers bright, clear display while creating vibrant colors and detailed images for a better viewing experience. It is ideal for families to immerse in big-screen entertainment.

In order to be 1080P you need 1080 x 1920 pixels.  If this FP is only 1200 in the horizontal direction, that may be the issue, or that may simply be a typo because other websites say 1920, but who knows - those sites may just be parroting the "claim" of 1920...

 

https://ivankyo.com/products/vankyo-performance-v600-projector-silver

 

Have you tried updating the firmware on the FP as that can often cause handshake issues.    Try connecting the Rogers box to another TV and set it to 1080i or 1080P. Then connect the box to the FP and see what happens. If it works, good.  If it doesn't, sounds like a handshake issue, or the FP really isn't true 1080P. It's not the first time that a "claim" is not the reality...

 

 

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

-G-
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@57 wrote:

I'm still on Digital Cable, but AFAIK, per the FAQ, most channels broadcast 1080i, with some channels 720P and a select few 4K.  I believe that on IgniteTV those signals are passed directly to the box by Rogers and you then need to decide what output you wish to set the box to.  Again, I suggest 4K unless you see a degradation of the 1080i/720P channels for example...

 

I don't recall anyone ever confirming what the incoming signals to the IgniteTV box are for the various channels.  That's easily confirmed in the diagnostics of the digital (Nextboxes), but I'm unsure about IgniteTV.  Anyone have any knowledge on this topic?  @-G- ?

 

I thought that only Bell and those who receive signals through Bell are downconverted to 720P for normal TV viewing.


IPTV works differently than broadcast/digital TV.  With Rogers Digital TV, the incoming signal is received from the source, undergoes some processing (usually compression) at the source and is then either broadcast or sent via switched digital video with its native format preserved.

 

You can't stream an interlaced signal, so a 1080i source signal would get deinterlaced immediately at the beginning of the encoding pipeline and then simultaneously transcoded into multiple resolutions and bitrates.  The quality of the stream depends on the quality of the deinterlacing and frame rates that the IPTV encoders can produce.  Ignite TV also streams with an adaptive bitrate, and the streamers in the back-end will send a stream that's optimal for the device that is receiving it.  That's the general gist of how things work in the IPTV world.  Implementations vary and I don't know many of the fine details that are specific to Ignite TV.

 

As far as I can tell, Rogers seems to be sending all HD channels to me as a 1080p stream, including those (such as NASA TV) that are 720p at the source.

 

On a 4K TV, I would recommend setting the HDMI Video Output Resolution on the set-top box to either 1080p or the Best Available (4K) depending on whether you want the set-top box or your TV to perform the upconversion.  I would personally set the Ignite STB to output 4K unless there was a good reason not to.

 

I would only set a 1080i output on the Ignite STB if I had an old TV that could not process 1080p, and if 1080i was the best available option.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Thanks @-G- :  I've updated my FAQ and I agree with your recommendations regarding output resolution - 4K (for 4K TVs) unless there's a reason not to.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
Tried box that was off my 1080 tv, as soon as it plugs into projector it goes to 720P. Also checked it on my kodi box and system settings shows resolution 1280 x 720P. Maybe not really a 1080 projector ??

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

@Dogs28 wrote:
Tried box that was off my 1080 tv, as soon as it plugs into projector it goes to 720P. Also checked it on my kodi box and system settings shows resolution 1280 x 720P. Maybe not really a 1080 projector ??

Yes, but did you set the box to 1080P while it was connected to the TV or did you leave it on "auto". You need to set it on 1080P for the test to see if that signal will "get through" to the FP.  If the (1080P) signal doesn't "get through", then I believe you may have your answer.  Did you update/check the firmware on the FP?

 

Also, if possible, take the HDMI cable from the "good" TV with the box in case the HDMI cable on the FP has an impact.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
I took my box and hdmi cable from tv and plugged into back of projector. It now shows 16:9, 1080p60 HD. It must be my òriginal cable. Would the length of run be an issue ? The hdmi cable is 35ft long, runs about 16ft through the ceiling then down 8ft to receiver. I purchased the cable off amazon. It is the Bluerigger HDMI 4K 60hz, high speed, in wall cl3 rated.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

Here are my comments regarding long HDMI cables.

 

1. You need to get the largest (thickest) gauge cable possible for long lengths. For example, my 25' cable, purchased 11 years ago, is 22 AWG.  I'm currently only running 1080P through that cable.

2. The other option is to use something like Redmere technology to overcome long distance cable issues.  That information is several years old though and I've not been keeping up on whether they work for the latest 4K.

3. I assume you're normally going through an AVR or other device.  Have you connected the Rogers box directly to the long cable, rather than going through the AVR?

4. Some cables, like Redmere are directional and only work properly "one way".

5. The Bluerigger cable says it's capable of 4K, so you'd think it would "easily" handle 1080P signals...?

6. The gauge of the Bluerigger cable is apparently only 26 AWG. Not a good sign.  

7. Try unplugging and replugging the cable at both ends a couple of times in case there's any oxidation on the contacts causing issues. 

8. I just read some reviews (Q&As on the Amazon website) and people had some issues with Bluerigger cables over 25'.  Apparently the "specs" for these cables are based on a maximum 25'.  These issues were sometimes overcome by using redmere, or a separate HDMI signal booster.  The location of the booster is important and is often counter-intuitive.

Good Luck.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
I've tried directly to the box but same outcome. I'll have to get a new cable. Do you think the amazon basics 4K with redmere 35ft would be ok ? If not other suggestions. The amazon does not specify a gage. Just alot of work getting it through the ceiling. Thanks.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
I assume the booster needs to be near the middle so it would be in the ceiling anyways. Easier just to run a new one.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

57
Resident Expert
Resident Expert

1. A booster is usually placed close to the TV/FP, so you'd have your existing cable, then the booster, which requires power of some sort, then a short cable to the TV.  All would need to meet whatever spec you're trying to send, 4K, etc.

 

2. If the Redmere cable meets all the specs, then there is no need for a booster since the booster is built into Redmere and that's why the cable can be thinner.  Redmere, or similar cables are one-directional.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
Ok so the booster I can place at the projector then a short plug into it ? That would save me from touching the ceiling again.

Re: Xi6A Upscaling

Dogs28
I plan to stick around
Only 1080, no 4k on projector.
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