Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode

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Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 1,676

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode

@dougjp  Rogers will only support your Ignite TV configuration if your Rogers (XB6) modem is in gateway mode AND your Ignite TV set-top boxes are connected to the XB6 either by Ethernet or over a Rogers-supported WiFi network.

 

If you leave the XB6 in gateway mode and connect your own router/firewall behind it, you will be running IPv4 in a "double NAT" configuration, and you will likely also end up with an IPv6 configuration that is either barely-working, partially-broken, or non-functional.

 

You will still be in a semi-supported configuration if you leave your XB6 in gateway mode, disable WiFi on the XB6, and put your own router into "AP mode", then connect everything to your own WiFi.  However, there is no security benefit to doing that, although you would still retain full control over WiFi in your home.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 42

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode

Not sure if paragraph 2 is an answer to my question about unticking the enable box in my router setup, or maybe its something else. I can't understand it.

 

I just thought, with my idea of disabling the router's wifi, that it would be desirable to have the TV boxes wirelessly connect to the XB6 only as they are meant to, have my router provide no wifi connectivity at all - ie; no conflicts re: settings, what wifi exists in the house, or what connects to what after a power outage for example. The router needs only to work for ethernet connections. Also as a side benefit, the installer can hopefully achieve better wifi connectivity throughout the house with pods if need be, as Rogers advertises.

 

I don't need my router's wifi to work at all if I'm forced not to have it. I just need my router's to work with 3 ethernet connected computers. It would be nice to have a different IP from the XB6 I suppose (security).

 

Millions of people paid hundreds of dollars for routers that they don't feel like throwing out. Surely Rogers realizes this and has a common solution that isn't having most people throw them away.

 

In your post # 167, turning the router off, are you only talking about the familiarity of devices recognizing and logging in to the XB6 via wifi only, by changing the SSID and passphrase? How does the router provide ethernet connections and protection for the computers if its turned off? And how would I know if I have " WiFi clients that are incompatible with band steering "? Everything wifi connected seems to work without problems now.

 

Sorry, just getting more and more frustrated.

I've Been Here Awhile
Posts: 3

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode

Per post 157, if you connect your own router to the Ignite Gateway, my experience (running DD-WRT on a D-Link router, and also using an unmodified TP_Link router)  is that IPV6 must be turned on in your router in order to gain internet access.

Also left the Ignite Gateway IP network addresses as they come from Rogers.

No bridgeing.

Left my own router IP network addresses in the 192.168.xx.xx range.

So have double NAT with IPV6 and it is solid as a rock in my case................your mileage may vary.

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 147

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode


@-G- wrote:

If you leave the XB6 in gateway mode and connect your own router/firewall behind it, you will be running IPv4 in a "double NAT" configuration, and you will likely also end up with an IPv6 configuration that is either barely-working, partially-broken, or non-functional.

 

 


I would be interested in more explanation here. or a link.

 

I dont know exactly how to ask the question, but 

 

Cannot any router be used as a "bridge"? My router does not have a "bridge" setting like the gateway does, but if I connect another router's  "network" side into one of my input ports, it becomes a bridge.  Typically, wifi would be turned off on the "bridge" router, isnt that the only difference?   

 

Are you saying the wifi HAS to be turned off, or there will be a problem with functionality?

 

 

Admittedly, never tested this with wifi on in both routers.

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 147

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode


@dougjp wroteproblems now.

 

Sorry, just getting more and more frustrated.


Ok. Lets back up.

 

1.  You say that you "do not need wifi" for your own devices.   This is a little strange because you probably have a smart phone or tablet which could use wifi, but okay, lets leave it at that.

2.  You say that you only need 3 hard-wired ports.  

 

If your life is that simple, it is probably best for you to de-commission your own router. 

 

Let Rogers install their vanilla system so that works throughout the house.  Remember that Rogers will not support a bridged system... only a "vanilla" system with their gateway as the wifi router for the TV boxes and as the general router for you internet requirements.

 

The gateway has only two hardwire internet ports. 

If you need more that that, you will have to invest in a wifi adapter for the other computers.  Something like this  https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_1048_1053&item_id=137600

 

Your TV boxes ... and the computer(s) with the adapter(s) ... will connect to the world through the Gateway's wifi.  Plus any other devices you may want to connect (smart phones, tablets... )

 

 

 

Somebody on kijiji may be interested in your router.

 

If you really, really, want to proceed with trying to run both routers with their wifi enabled, you can look at my previous post 168.

and take into account @dougjp post 171 which says it is not a good idea.  (I would have to do some more research and do some  tests before I agreed or disagreed with him.  He is probably right)

 

 

I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 42

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode

When I said I don't need wifi for my own devices, I said my router's wifi. I don't care what wifi is available from where in my house, as long as it works.

 

Thanks for talking in straight language, and trying to help. I still can't believe I have to go to kijiji in Covid times with my several month old multi hundred dollar router to sell it used, and that the millions of people who bought routers have to dump them because Rogers has no simple cookie cutter working solution for a common setup. Its unbelievable.

 

I'll await further details, hopefully here, about why my router with its wifi disabled can't be ethernet connected to a gateway setup XB6, as my router's tech support said should be fine (and even with me proposing the router wifi be disabled). Why can I read here that any and all computers or devices be ethernet connected to the two XB6 ports and supposedly work fine without anyone having any reservations about that, when a router (even without wifi enabled) and under any modified settings to placate Rogers, fail in this regard?

 

If I go back to satellite TV and a Bell land line phone, which seems now to be the only viable route, will the Ignite internet work with any router?  

 

 

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 1,676

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode


@ColdGranite wrote:

@-G- wrote:

If you leave the XB6 in gateway mode and connect your own router/firewall behind it, you will be running IPv4 in a "double NAT" configuration, and you will likely also end up with an IPv6 configuration that is either barely-working, partially-broken, or non-functional.


I would be interested in more explanation here. or a link.


Double-NAT is a network configuration where the network path, from an end system to the Internet, passes through two (or more) IPv4 firewalls that perform Network Address Translation.  Double-NAT is not (usually) a problem if you are just doing simple web browsing.  However, some applications have a hard-enough time going through even a single firewall.  Put two firewalls in the path and those applications will break.  I have posted about this before or you can search the Internet.  It is a well-known problem.

 

We don't have to worry about NAT in the IPv6 world because it is not used.  However, cascading multiple routers/firewalls on your internal LAN can still cause problems for IPv6.  The XB6 gateway will obtain an IPv6 Prefix Delegation; a generous chunk of IPv6 address space that it can assign to its internal LAN segment.  The problem is that your router will also try to request a generous chunk of IPv6 address space (usually a /64 PD) from the XB6 for use on its internal LAN segment... but the XB6 will only be able to give it a fraction of that amount... or perhaps only a single IPv6 address.  (The problem is that the XB6 cannot request a larger IPv6 Prefix delegation, nor does it have any control over how the assigned PD can be sub-delegated on its internal network.)  Even if you are able to get enough IPv6 address space for your router's internal LAN, you could still end up having to deal with various other IPv6 connectivity issues that could be tricky to troubleshoot.



Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 1,676

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode


@dougjp wrote:

I just thought, with my idea of disabling the router's wifi, that it would be desirable to have the TV boxes wirelessly connect to the XB6 only as they are meant to, have my router provide no wifi connectivity at all - ie; no conflicts re: settings, what wifi exists in the house, or what connects to what after a power outage for example. The router needs only to work for ethernet connections. Also as a side benefit, the installer can hopefully achieve better wifi connectivity throughout the house with pods if need be, as Rogers advertises.

 

I don't need my router's wifi to work at all if I'm forced not to have it. I just need my router's to work with 3 ethernet connected computers. It would be nice to have a different IP from the XB6 I suppose (security).


Sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to do.

 

What you are describing will not impact the supportability of Ignite TV.  However, leaving the XB6 in gateway mode and putting your router/firewall behind it could potentially cause connectivity problems for the computers (and any other devices) that connect to your router, for the reasons described in my previous post.  If you are just doing simple web browsing on your computers over this configuration, things should work fine.

 

If you need to expand the number of LAN ports on the XB6 gateway, all that you need is a small LAN switch.  The Rogers install techs used to carry them in their trucks.  If you pay for a professional install, they will likely be able to provide you with one free of charge.



I Plan to Stick Around
Posts: 42

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode

- G - , Thank you for your explanations in both posts, which I can understand in general terms. I do a traceroute anywhere and see my signal goes through 15 +/- routers, presumably some of them in existence for added security. So in my simplistic mind I think of my router as just one more, how can it be such a problem, or what settings changes could be made to the router to help.

 

Why am I trying to get so much detail in advance. In comparison with my digital Rogers bundle, Ignite is to obsolete $ 1,000- worth of combined owned TV boxes ($ 100- rebate offered) and a 4 month old router. I lose my free personal webspace, lose TV and phone with an internet outage, phone with a power outage, and Ignite costs more. On a different kind of level, I have to admit a loss of autonomy is a factor. So I'm at a crossroads of staying with Rogers or going.

 

You mentioned simple web browsing likely wouldn't be a problem. On the other side of that coin, what kind of activities are likely to cause connectivity issues if my router stays? And regarding the LAN switch, I suppose an Ethernet Network Unmanaged Switch (as in your link) would allow multiple devices using the internet through it without obstruction, as efficiently as a router?  

Resident Expert
Resident Expert
Posts: 1,676

Re: Using the Ignite TV Modem/Gateway in Bridge Mode


@dougjp wrote:

Why am I trying to get so much detail in advance. In comparison with my digital Rogers bundle, Ignite is to obsolete $ 1,000- worth of combined owned TV boxes ($ 100- rebate offered) and a 4 month old router. I lose my free personal webspace, lose TV and phone with an internet outage, phone with a power outage, and Ignite costs more. On a different kind of level, I have to admit a loss of autonomy is a factor. So I'm at a crossroads of staying with Rogers or going.  


I don't know what I can say to put your mind at ease, regardless of what decision you end up making going forward.  Rogers provides a turnkey system, that has been tested end-to-end, to (hopefully) simplify life for their customers and provide a good user experience.

 

If you don't want that, and can support your own network environment, and choose to use your own equipment then go ahead.  Rogers also provides instructions on how to Turn Bridge Mode On or Off for your Ignite WiFi Gateway modem so that you can use your own router with the XB6 gateway.  However, they also make it clear that they cannot guarantee that Ignite TV will work with your own network equipment.  (I find that my own network gear works better for me than the equipment that Rogers provides.  I will also never be calling Rogers for any help configuring my network nor will I ever be complaining about Wi-Fi problems, so my current setup benefits them as well as me.  I also revert back to a Rogers-supported configuration before calling into Tech Support.)

 

If you are happy with your current services as is, then keep them for as long as you can.  Hopefully, you have been able to recoup your $1000 investment in Digital TV equipment with the rental fees that you saved over the years.  However, the rebate that Rogers offered you may or may not be there when you finally do decide to switch.

 

You mentioned simple web browsing likely wouldn't be a problem. On the other side of that coin, what kind of activities are likely to cause connectivity issues if my router stays?


If you search the Internet for "double nat issues" you will see that this mostly affects online gamers, but it can also potentially affect any applications that have issues with NAT traversal to begin with.  If your current Rogers modem is in gateway mode and you are not experiencing any problems when using your own router, then things should continue to work after switching to Ignite.

 

And regarding the LAN switch, I suppose an Ethernet Network Unmanaged Switch (as in your link) would allow multiple devices using the internet through it without obstruction, as efficiently as a router?  


Yes.